Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Studio asking for server log files

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Posted by Tommy Zackariasson (Member # 6505) on 03-24-2012, 09:43 AM:

Hi

We recieved an email from one of the big American film companies, and they wanted us to send them the entire log file from our server. They are checking on when we ran a specific film. Not that we got anything to hide, but is this really ok?

/Tommy

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-24-2012, 10:46 AM:

They can get that from your VPF integrator. If you aren't on a VPF plan, well, then tough. They don't need to be looking at your business (as the logs would show OTHER studio's product in there).

Posted by Tommy Zackariasson (Member # 6505) on 03-24-2012, 12:06 PM:

I'm not sure if we have a vpf, we have a device for the installer to remotely be able to do service, is that a vpf? I don't feel comfortable with giving away the complete server log to them, do they have the right to require it from us? If not, is there a way to extract the log only for a specific title from a dolby server?

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 03-24-2012, 01:22 PM:

I guess the real question is: Who is the real Captain of the ship? Them or you? Louis

Posted by Tommy Zackariasson (Member # 6505) on 03-24-2012, 02:00 PM:

Louis, No question about who's got the greatest muscles in this matter I believe... What if they found out that a theater had run a title off schedule, what would they do? Is it not ok to do tests etc?

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 03-24-2012, 02:04 PM:

Just thinking out loud:

Tell them that they may send a representative to your theater. Your technician will meet them there and operate the equipment.
Their representative may observe and read the logs, in person, but may not have a copy of them.

Contractual obligations notwithstanding, of course.

By the way, if they are concerned about unauthorized viewings, they don't need the log files to tell that.

My theater was once questioned about an unauthorized showing of Star Wars: Ep. 1. I took a reading from the hours meter on the lamphouse and compared it to the log sheets from the xenon lamp changes. I figured out the difference in time then calculated how many hours the xenon lamp should have burned if it played all the scheduled shows it was supposed to.

The reading from the projector's hour meter and the number of hours it should have read turned out to be off by less than one hour so there was no way there could have been a full run-through of the movie.

If there was only a partial run-through, how could the movie have been started, played half way through then fast-forwarded or rewound to the starting position without the first shift operator noticing the next day? Besides, who would watch only 45 minutes of a movie, anyway? If they did, why would they go through all the trouble to reset he system again?

I wrote up the report, showed my math and signed at the bottom. Question answered. They went away and never bothered us again.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 03-24-2012, 02:17 PM:

But, Randy...If one movie was run in place of another, the chronometer would not reveal that. Also, some theatres leave their lamps lit for some time before, between and after screenings. Some "leave 'em lit" all day long.

We run tests to determine volume, verify framing, credits offset, and so on. But we don't play the entire movie. Based on how the server responds every time we skip around -- "Updating Security Logs" or something like that -- I think the logs would reflect that the entire movie wasn't shown. Also, a cinema could always fall back on its advertised schedule and box office records. Just because a movie was run, doesn't mean that anybody actually watched it.

If the studio is not entitled to have copies of your logs, and you provide it for them (as a courtesy), you should be mindful that you are setting a precedent. They will expect you to cooperate again and again. Also, there are no secrets in this industry -- the other studios will probably know that you surrendered your logs and decide to take advantage of your willingness to share data.

Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 03-24-2012, 02:24 PM:

Someone who signs the contracts needs to be in the loop on that question. They would know if you have a VPF agreement with an integrator. That will at least clarify who needs to pull the logs.
If you have in integrator it's usually their job to send a playout log to the distributors and bill you for any expansions that you don't have bookings foor.
Otherwise if you run it yourself and have no VPF deal then unless your MLA with the studio says otherwise you have no obligation to provide the playout log.

Good luck.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 03-24-2012, 02:26 PM:

The question was asked during the first few weeks of the opening run. The movie never left the projector it started on.

It's not logical for somebody to move a print from one platter to another just to have a midnight movie party. Nobody even considered that I could make such a calculation, even if it was just coolie math.

If the movie had been run after hours, it would have been run on the same projector.

There was a window of a few days when the presumed unauthorized showing could have happened. (Like a Saturday night or a Sunday night. The question was asked to me on the following Tuesday or Wednesday.)

There were three prints of the movie. I checked them all.

We never left our lamps running between shows and there was only a small number of people who would have been able or authorized to change a lamp or access the lamphouse.

No, the answer could not be 100% definitive but it was accurate enough to dismiss the question.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-24-2012, 03:05 PM:

quote: Randy Stankey
Just thinking out loud:

Tell them that they may send a representative to your theater. Your technician will meet them there and operate the equipment.
Their representative may observe and read the logs, in person, but may not have a copy of them.

Contractual obligations notwithstanding, of course.

You forgot one thing...their representative must sign an NDA as an authorized representative of the studio. [Razz]

quote: Manny Knowles
If the studio is not entitled to have copies of your logs, and you provide it for them (as a courtesy), you should be mindful that you are setting a precedent. They will expect you to cooperate again and again. Also, there are no secrets in this industry -- the other studios will probably know that you surrendered your logs and decide to take advantage of your willingness to share data.

This is a huge problem in this industry. Give 'em a little and they take everything.

quote: Randy Stankey

It's not logical for somebody to move a print from one platter to another just to have a midnight movie party.

People do it all the time. In fact it isn't even difficult depending on the setup.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-24-2012, 04:04 PM:

Why is this even an issue. The theatre is either contractually obligated to provide the logs, or it isn't. If the obligation exists, then the theatre should provide what is being requested. If not, then it should tell the distributor to go away.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 03-24-2012, 04:15 PM:

^^^ The OP implied that he didn't know if it was required or not.

Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 03-24-2012, 04:20 PM:

Brad: wow.
I'm sad I'll probably never see a platter array like that in person.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-24-2012, 04:22 PM:

Its already gone. Its all DCS systems now.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 03-24-2012, 05:22 PM:

quote: Scott Norwood
Why is this even an issue. The theatre is either contractually obligated to provide the logs, or it isn't. If the obligation exists, then the theatre should provide what is being requested. If not, then it should tell the distributor to go away.

I have no idea whether there is a contractual obligation to provide the logs at present, but I'm surprised we haven't heard more of this sort of thing in the past, and I'm pretty sure that we will hear more of it in the future. Indeed, I would guess that it won't be a question of them having to ask for them, but of them having direct access to the logs via the Intranet. This has certainly been mentioned as one possible use of the Internet connection to digital cinema equipment. Indeed, when I first started digital projection, several years ago I was always careful about testing the equipment, or on one occasion demonstrating it to a cinematographer who had turned up to a previous screening on film, as I was conscious that I might have to account for what had been projected. Like it or not, this is likely to be the future.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 03-24-2012, 05:29 PM:

quote: Brad Miller
People do it all the time. In fact it isn't even difficult depending on the setup.

Not at my theater. Not with the people who worked there. It never would occur to them.

Posted by David Buckley (Member # 2600) on 03-24-2012, 05:49 PM:

IT professional question time

How long do you keep your logs for? More importantly, do you have a formal policy that specifies how long logs should be retained? You should have, especially if you are part of a chain.

Posted by Tommy Zackariasson (Member # 6505) on 03-24-2012, 07:02 PM:

Chris, exactly - no one here at the theatre know if we are obligated to provide the logs or not, we never heard about this before, we'll have to find out.

Stephen, in the future maybe we just order a viewing and the distributor takes care of it streaming. We just let the audience in...

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 03-24-2012, 08:10 PM:

Ask the owners of the cinema on this issue.

Plus, get some identification and authority background from these callers to verify their requests are valid or not.

Same if a person comes up to your door saying he represents the city law enforcement services and wants to ask some questions - you ask him to provide identification before commencing.

Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 03-24-2012, 08:24 PM:

Logs aren't so much an chain IT persons prerogative. THe server will keep them as long as it's configured for and as far as I know that's not a configurable option typically.

In our Sony implementation they pull the logs throughout the week but our servers retain the data for as long as they've got room.
Probably the standard 7 years or so the MLA's require you to keep ticket stubs and that nonsense.

Brad: that's sad.

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 03-25-2012, 12:20 PM:

I suspect the OP is talking about audit logs, not operational hardware/software logs. IIRC DCI says the server stores the for 3 years.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 03-31-2012, 05:04 PM:

It also says that 'there should be' filter options for the logs to make sure the requesting entity only get's the data concerning their assets. So far, I haven't seen that kind of software in the wild. As long as the requesting party does not provide that kind of software and there is no VPF deal (where usually the third party will have access to these logs 24/7 anyway), I would not follow this request.

- Carsten

Posted by Tommy Zackariasson (Member # 6505) on 04-01-2012, 01:54 PM:

This is what's happened so far: I replied to the mail and asked for detailed instructions on how to get the log only for that feature. Now it's been a week and no reply...