Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Doremi IMB ShowVault to Dolby CP 650 AES input

This is topic Doremi IMB ShowVault to Dolby CP 650 AES input in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Eric Robinson (Member # 2966) on 05-25-2012, 12:06 AM:

We are using the Doremi ShowVault server and Barco IMB combination. The IMB has digital sound output from a CAT5 type jack labeled "1-8". This digital audio cable is a CAT5 or CAT6 type cable which leads to the soundrack. There is a device which adapts the CAT5 or Cat6 cable to a 25 pin DIN connector. There is a 25 pin cable which connects to this adapter and connects to a Doremi AUD D2A at the digital audio input. The output of the D2A is 6 channel analog which is hooked to the CP650 6 channel analog input. We are considering removing the AUD D2A from the system and instead bringing the digital audio directly from the IMB to the rear input of a Dolby CP650 which has AES decoding capability. Does anyone know if there is a cable or kit for such a thing, or do I need to figure out all of the pin outs and mappings and make my own solution? Thanks in advance.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 05-25-2012, 07:30 AM:

The gray dongle thingy replicates the DCP2000 AES DB25 pinout, now you have it plugged into the short fat AES cable that goes to the AUD2A input. To go into the CP650 you have to use the other AES cable labelled something like "to cinema processor" that came with the ShowVault, and an adapter card: I use the Odyssey 650-OPTIO-AES - pretty cheap and has a DB25 for AES in and a second one with the surround signal outputs that are on the same connector if you have EX and/or 7.1 audio. Doing this yourself on a DB25 connector would be a frigging nightmare, but the pinouts are in the CP650 and DCP2000 manuals.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-25-2012, 08:00 AM:

The current Odyssey board has an RJ45 connector on it so you would be good-to-go. Note, there have been issues with the CP650s AES input..."Robo-Sound" which can strike at any time (though not during a show...at the beginning). Rebooting the CP650 cures it...though I'm wondering if merely interrupting pair 1 (the only pair the CP650 syncs to) wouldn't cause it to recover. Generally, your Cat 790 either has the problem or it doesn't.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 05-25-2012, 11:35 AM:

Probably a silly question, but does Odyssey use the same pinout as Doremi on the RJ45 plug? It would make sense and Mark usually does things that make sense, but I don't know.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-25-2012, 03:09 PM:

Odyssey groups by pair...so if you are using the "B" type wire schedule, then pair 1 is on the oranges, pair 2 is on the greens, pair 3 is on the blues and pair 4 is on the browns. And yes, they know that the blue pair is inverted compared to the other pairs and that the green pair is spanning across the blue pair.

In short, if you wire your Ethernet cables (or use premades) in a standard fashion, all should work fine. If you need to break channels 7 and 8 out for Surround 7.1...then it is the brown pair that you need to wire in an alternate fashion.

Odyssey did it in a logical fashion, in my opinion, I have not looked at Doremi's pinout to see if they followed suit...I would hope so since it would be more difficult to re-invent the wheel.

Posted by Eric Robinson (Member # 2966) on 05-26-2012, 09:40 AM:

Thanks, this helps a lot so far. And yes, our audio system is wired for EX. To follow on ... I need to get a kit to interface the CP650 audio outputs with a THX booth monitor and all of the amp inputs including EX left and right after I install the CAT790 card. I was told Odyssey has such a kit. Are there any gotchas I might encounter with this?

Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 05-27-2012, 12:32 AM:

USL uses the same pin out on the RJ45 connector for AES audio on the JSD-100. This is the StudioHub pin out. Various adapters are available. Adapters to convert various servers to RJ45 are listed here

Harold

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 05-31-2012, 02:47 PM:

Hmmm.
Doremi does it rather differently on their IMB AES RJ45 connectors.
They have different channel/pair assignments and don't invert pair 3. So you can't use the Odyssey adapter with CATx cables from a Doremi IMB. You use the Doremi dongle that comes with the IMB, and the Doremi AES cable to your D-A or processor - a cable for the Doremi D-A and one for cinema processors come with the Doremi server.

Posted by Jonathan Jensen (Member # 5870) on 08-15-2012, 10:27 AM:

Sorry to bump this 3 months later...

I'm having a 7.1 wired setup with Barcos, Doremi IMBs, Showvaults and QSC DPC300's.

Would it be correct to assume the bundled DB25 pin cable should provide all 16 channels (1-8 + 9-16) from the Showvault directly to the DCP300?

I'm asking because on 7.1 titles, the back surround channels wasn't being supplied to the processor until I manually re-routed them to channel 7 (Left Rear Surround) & 8 (Right Rear Surround) in the Doremi's Audio Config.

The DCP300 has two DB25 Digital Inputs, but from the IMB I only get one DB25 (after the dual RJ45's has been converted to a single DB25 with the bundled adapter.

I might not see the obvious, but do I really need to split the DB25 signal into two DB25's?

Can anyone please clarify?
Thanks! [Smile]

-Jonathan

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 08-15-2012, 11:47 AM:

What 'bundled' DB25 cable? The classic Doremi with built-in media block has a DB25 with all 16 AES channels on it (8*2 channel signals).

The IMB has two CAT5 connectors, each carrying 8 channels (4 pairs), as depicted on the front plate. In order to carry 16ch from the IMB to a cinema processor, you need a dual-CAT5->DB25 cable with proper wiring, as discussed in this thread.

The DCP300, as you can see in the manual and on the back plate, has two DB25 connectors, each one only carrying 4 AES pairs (=8channels) - 1-4 and 5-8.

That means, in order to feed 16ch from a Doremi IMB to a DCP300, you need two CAT5->DB25 cables with the proper wiring. Don't know if anyone makes them, but sure they are easy to make yourself. Just cut a proper ethernet-cable in half and connect each open end to a DB25 connector.

http://www.doremilabs.com/downloads/manuals/IMB_Barco_Projector_Installation_Manual_001087_v1_4.pdf

http://media.qscaudio.com/pdfs/manuals/DCP300_hardware_user_manual_rev005.pdf

- Carsten

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 08-15-2012, 12:09 PM:

The Doremi dongle, turning the two RJ-45 connectors into a DB25, will have all 16 channels on the DB25, if you connect both RJ45s. The Doremi "DCP2K AES AUDIO OUT TO CINEMA PROCESSOR" cable only carries the first 8 channels (4 AES signals).
The Odyssey IN-8X2RJ-DCP300 will give you all 16 channels, you just plug in the two RJ45s from the IMB.

Posted by Jonathan Jensen (Member # 5870) on 08-23-2012, 09:23 AM:

Cheers, much appreciated guys!

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 08-31-2012, 11:34 AM:

I also just noticed that Datasat sells their own board H506 for this purpose, split a single 16ch/8pair AES cable/connector to the AP20 two 8ch/4AES connectors.
It also has a HI/VI ch7/8 rerouting option.

They have a tech-note/manual on it, that also shows a full wiring diagram:

http://www.datasatdigital.com/docs/archive/H509rev.A1UsingH506boardwithAP20.pdf

- Carsten