Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Looking for cinemas with DMA 8+ Installed

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Posted by Alexis Bhagat (Member # 7031) on 06-30-2012, 03:38 PM:

Hi. I'm the curator of a sound art organization that aims to present sound works in cinema halls (with no visual accompaniment.) Right now, we present from Blu-Ray --> DMA 8+ --> installed CP.

Before I found this forum, I thought that very few cinemas had DMA 8+ decoders installed. Can any of you tell me some other cinemas that have a DMA 8+ installed? We would love to find more cinemas where we can present our program.

Thanks.

More info -- http://au.dience.org

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 06-30-2012, 04:08 PM:

Why do you need a DMA8+ specifically for showing your program? Does your program not work with systems that utilize one of the competitor's products that perform the same type of function or in systems that use blu-ray without those products at all? I'm just confused as to what this program is.

And maybe I'm in a nitpicky mood, but imo I'd redesign that website to look less like it's all just a text document with some formatting here-and-there.

Posted by Alexis Bhagat (Member # 7031) on 06-30-2012, 11:15 PM:

We don't necessarily need a DMA 8+. We need to be able to present surround sound from a digital source. The solution that Dolby suggested was to connect a DMA 8+ to the Cinema Processor via optical cable. We have been putting money aside to put together a tour-kit that contains our own DMA 8+. In the meantime, the only cinema we have presented in has been Licnoln Center, which is the only cinema in New York that we know of that has a decoder installed and can present surround sound from a digital source.

We were not aware of any competitor's products.

But the point of this question was to find out about other cinemas with decoders installed, where we might present a sound-only program until we purchase our own decoder.

Thanks for advice about the website. Yes, it is just our text-documents. We will be redesigning this year.

Posted by Jock Blakley (Member # 6552) on 07-01-2012, 06:50 AM:

What processor is installed there?

When we show Blu-Ray content we connect the TOSLINK cable from the player to a Gefen AV Cinema Scaler Pro II, which includes a Dolby Digital decoder, and from there to the External 6-Track input on our CP500.

The Gefen is by far from the best product on the market but probably comes in a little lower on the price scale than the DMA-8+.

quote:
The solution that Dolby suggested was to connect a DMA 8 Plus to the Cinema Processor via optical cable.

Better yet, no Dolby CP I know off accepts optical input directly, and checking the DMA-8 Plus' spec sheet reveals no optical output.

Far as I can tell the DMA-8 uses Format 11 too - so this thread is more a question of "what hardware takes TOSLINK or S/PDIF co-ax inputs, decodes PCM/Dolby Digital/maybe also DTS, and spits it out as analogue six-track?"

Posted by Antti Nayha (Member # 4980) on 07-01-2012, 07:40 AM:

quote: Jock Blakley
no Dolby CP I know off accepts optical input directly

The CP750 has the same digital audio inputs as the DMA8Plus, including TOSLINK. Of course, if you have a CP750, then you won't be needing a DMA8Plus at all for this...

Posted by Alexis Bhagat (Member # 7031) on 07-01-2012, 09:02 AM:

jock

thank you for CP500 solution. Dolby had suggested we use DMA 8+ and said we could only present in cinemas with CP650 or later.

I'm not sure what you mean about no optical? I didn't connect it, but the Dolby technician who connected it said it was an "optical connection." Maybe there was some proprietary cable that is optical but doesn't look like a standard Fiber Optic Digital Audio cable?

Nitti: What are you saying about CP750? Can we present from Blu-Ray right to CP 750? The decoder is installed within the CP?

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 07-01-2012, 11:03 AM:

The best thing you can do for now is to call into cinemas and ask the projectionist/technician wether their cinema processor can handle AC3/digitally encoded surround sound through S/P-DIF/TOSLINK/Coax.

It's easy to adopt TOSLINK (optical) into coaxial, but you might just as well buy a BluRay Player which has BOTH types of digital outputs. There are a lot of cinema processors on the market now with AC3 decoding capability. Useless to ask the manager or any 'general staff', they wouldn't know, as this is not used a lot in daily cinema operations.

AC3 is limited in audio performance, but certainly is the easiest way to get multichannel audio into a cinema without interfering too much with their cinema operations. At some point, you may consider generating DCPs with discrete multichannel PCM sound - all digital cinemas can play this without a problem. These DCPs would be black picture with sound. It's a steep learning curve, but if you are able to create your own AC3 encoded audio on BluRay, you should be able to manage DCPs as well. Tools are available for free, and with a black picture track, it's more or less just a simple conversion process.

As a general rule - ask for DMA8, CP650, CP750, DTS/Datasat AP20, USL JSD80/JSD100 processors - These are all capable of decoding AC3.
Some come in different configurations an may NOT always have that capability.

While having your own DMA8 sounds like a nice general prerequisite - it's not a quick addon to an existing cinema sound installation, and I guess most cinemas would not want you to interfere with their installation by adding it for a one-time event. Using an existing S/P-DIF/Toslink input has a lower risk.

- Carsten

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 07-01-2012, 02:17 PM:

And for places that don't have the decoding ability for whatever reason, it's usually not all that hard to hook up a surround receiver that'll do that and give you a decoded either digital or analog signal.

And on competitors to the DMA8, I was referring to USL having a similar product although AFAIK theirs is only 6-channel unlike the Dolby.

Oh and I absolutely do not believe that there is merely one theater in all of NYC which can play soundtracks from Blu-ray/DVD digitally.

Posted by Alexis Bhagat (Member # 7031) on 07-01-2012, 03:07 PM:

Chris: I understand that you don't believe me that most cinemas can't present surround from a digital disc media. The New York State Council on the Arts didn't believe us. And I have stood in front of house managers and seen them express disbelief as their own projectionists explained to them that they could not present surround from disc media -- that their surround systems could only be accessed via the Projector or their Dolby Digital server.

Carsten: Thanks for the info about DCP. I'm not familiar with what are the options besides Dolby Digital servers, but our engineer (who works at Sound One in NYC) has told us to examine this route. Please let us know if there are any DCP units or packages you suggest we look into for a touring kit...

For now, we are sticking with the DMA 8+ route suggested by Dolby. So, to reiterate my main question then:

Can anyone tell me any cinemas that DO have a DMA 8+ already installed?

Alexis

ps: (Thanks JM for the tip on the Alamo!)

Posted by Philip Jones (Member # 6677) on 07-01-2012, 03:09 PM:

We have a cp750 processor but I can't get 5.1 audio from a sony blu ray player via coaxial output. This should be possible shouldn't it? It just plays in stereo..

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 07-01-2012, 03:34 PM:

quote: Alexis Bhagat
I understand that you don't believe me that most cinemas can't present surround from a digital disc media.

I believe that. I said I didn't believe that there is only one theater capable of such a thing in the whole area.

quote: Alexis Bhagat
For now, we are sticking with the DMA 8+ route suggested by Dolby.

Color me shocked that Dolby didn't suggest looking at their competitors. [Wink]

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 07-01-2012, 04:29 PM:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Cinema_Package#DCP_creation_tools

I suggest to try

http://code.google.com/p/opendcp/
http://www.dcpbuilder.com/

There are without doubt more cinemas now that can play DCPs/multichannel sound than there are cinemas with a DMA8. So I suggest you skip the DMA8 and go the DCP way. I doubt that any cinema will just let you install a DMA8 into their existing system - except if you leave it with them afterwards ;-)
There are certainly quite a few cinemas around WITH AC3 enabled surround processors - but the staff wouldn't know how to enable the proper format, or would simply reject the idea of tinkering with the processor.

Once you have converted your work into a DCP, it stays on a simple harddisc and can be played on any digital cinema system worldwide without any special dealing. There is not even a need for dedicated staff - they will play just like any movie feature with a standardized norm level (which certainly is another plus for this kind of presentation).

- Carsten

Posted by Terrence Meiczinger (Member # 5059) on 07-06-2012, 09:06 AM:

A few years back we looked at the DMA8+, but ended up getting a Onkyo PR-SC885P for $500. It has balanced pre-outputs and we made a custom cable to go from that to the DB connector on the back of a CP650 to get multi-channel sound. It scales the video and handles pretty any input. We use it for Xbox/Playstation/PC input.

However, as Carsten suggests, the DCP route is a better than DVD/Blu-ray for showing content. It's pretty much a once and done conversion that will work in more places once you have the DCP. There are several applications available that are capable of doing the DCP conversion.

Posted by Yinghong Wu (Member # 6908) on 07-07-2012, 11:03 PM:

I think the cp750 is the right device you should get.In our cinema we use cp750.Sometimes we use a hdmi-dvi cable to connect the BD to the projector(christie cp2000zx)for video and a optical cable to connect BD to CP750 for audio(5.1 channel can work well).This is my scheme.^-^

Posted by John Stewart (Member # 989) on 07-08-2012, 12:01 AM:

The State theater in Austin, Tx has a CP750 and the output of our bluray can be connected either way through optical or coax. Next door at the Paramount, we have a CP650 with an DM8a+ but we don't have our own video projector. Festivals rent a Barco or whatever for the festivals but we can take care the sound with the 650/DM8A+ combination. Contact production at http://www.austintheatre.org/site/PageNavigator/about/contact for info.

Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 07-08-2012, 12:09 AM:

DCP is the true answer for this! 100% non compressed digital audio is the potential and far more reliable than blu ray/dvd. Majority of cinemas are set up for running it. Blu ray is for home.

Posted by Joel Landy (Member # 6575) on 07-08-2012, 08:35 PM:

sounds like this is all handled but wanted to add some info I did not see I use CP-500s with DMA8 and use the digital coax rca phono (orange) output from a sony blu ray palyer to the DMA 8 rca digital audio input and programmed the DMA8 so the Alt content button selects this as the audio input The DMA8+ does not have this RCA phono (orange) coax digital audio input anymore relying on a BNC connector not sure of the difference does any one know can you use a bnc to rca adapter and the signal is really the same? Main problem without this, is not the surround chanels, but there is no center channel on the non synch inputs on a CP500 the center channel is muted automatically and only stereo can be produced The DMA 8 and the coax digital audio input it provides is the only way I have been able to get a center channel off a blu ray player

Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 07-08-2012, 10:40 PM:

I agree that DCP is the best way to play content. Note that the USL ECI-60, JSD-80 and JSD-100 include, as an option, a decoder for Dolby Digital on the coax (S/PDIF) and optical (TOSLINK) inputs. It is licensed for "alternate content." An upcoming code update for the JSD-100 will add an option for DTS decoding on these inputs. The upcoming JSD-60 will also decode these bitstreams.

Harold