Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: overheating Barco?

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Posted by Melanie Loggins (Member # 6454) on 07-14-2012, 02:37 PM:

So, last night, my projector shut the lamp off 27 minutes into Brave. With 35 minutes of preshow, 8 minutes of trailers, and then 27 of movie... I figure it was on an hour and 10 minutes. After half an hour I was able to turn it back on and finish the movie, but about 4 minutes into the credits, it shut off again. So I had gotten another hour and 10 minutes.

It is hot as hell in my booth. The room's air handler vents are doing what they can and the roof vent seems to be working. The filters are cleanish. My question is.... other than standing there with an improvised swamp cooler, pointing a fan directly at the rear intake, is there anything I can do to cool it off more? I know it's hot as hell here right now, but surely I'm not the first person to ever deal with a hot booth?

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 07-14-2012, 02:42 PM:

Hi there,

Did you have a look at the temperatures on the touchpanel/communicator? You need first to find out what is overheating: light engine, LVPS, ballast, lamp...
Make sure your liquid cooling is working properly, sometimes a little air bubble can prevent the fluid to circulate. If the DMDs are overheating, I'd replace the coolant, stictly following Barco's instruction in doing it.

As a temporary measure, you may want to reduce your lamp wattage a bit to avoid shut downs. What lamp have you got?

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 07-14-2012, 02:49 PM:

I have a "split air conditioner" just for my projection room. It cost under $2000 installed when I purchased it in the spring of 2011, shortly after I got my digital cinema setup.

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 07-14-2012, 03:06 PM:

^^^^ What they said. Also make SURE your projection booth exhaust blower is working. It may be shutting down from the extreme heat, which will make your projector overheat and eventually shut down.

And does your booth have any A/C? If so, why isn't it working? You need to correct that, otherwise all of your equipment including the server are at risk of early failure due to the heat.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 07-14-2012, 04:12 PM:

what they said! [Smile]

Also remember that an A/C unit must be spec'd for the environment. Have a professional coming and evaluate the BTUs required. Usually in a projection booth you need powerful units, don't be tempted by cheap "home" units seen at the hardware store, that is money wasted.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-14-2012, 05:05 PM:

Had a similar experience; a fire damper in the plenum in the ceiling had the lead break let go causing the spring loaded damper plate to shut down a lot of my exhaust flow.. getting my booth hot that contained my BARCO.

I found this when I took out the module and notice a very weak air draw going up the stack.

Got building mnt to replace that damper lead break so I can get my flow back to normal.

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 07-14-2012, 05:11 PM:

Lord on our NEC's you have 5 minute cool down, a 30 minute cool down sounds excessive. We have exhaust and the only way we over heat is a D*ckHead forgets to turn it on. So the pan exhaust now stay on just as the ones on the roof. No more overheating.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 07-14-2012, 06:13 PM:

This is not a normal "cool down" like NEC and Christie have, Barco does not have such a cool down. This is an overheated projector shutting down with an alarm that will not start again until it cools down from the overheating - and that took a 30 minute wait.
Barco specifies that the ambient temperature must be below 95F. Plus there has to be a lamphouse exhaust fan.
What overheated specifically? The diagnostic warning message when it shut down may have said, or you can look at all the temperatures measured and see which are approaching the limit.
It does sound to me like an exhaust failure - weak fan or a closed fire damper.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 07-14-2012, 06:30 PM:

Didn't realise that. I doubt that it takes 30m to clear the overheat error. It should really take a few minutes from the moment the lamp goes down.
Could you tell us more about the error shown?

Posted by Bajsic Bojan (Member # 4928) on 07-15-2012, 03:11 AM:

And do specify if it was a B-series or C-series projector, or if it was the old DPxy00.

Having repeated shutdowns that are time and not temperature based seems more like a circuit problem, but might still just be an exhaust issue. Is there enough pressure in the exhaust to lift that little aluminum switch thing (dont know what that little bugger is called) in the exhaust pipe of the barco?

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 07-15-2012, 09:54 AM:

Barco C series (S2) projectors don't have vane switches, nor do the DP1500 or DP2000. The 1.4" B series systems do have them, you will get a diags warning if it doesn't lift.

Posted by Bajsic Bojan (Member # 4928) on 07-15-2012, 06:15 PM:

yes, the B series has them but i wasnt sure about the older models. But apparently she has the C series, so +1 on the overheating.

just check the logs on the projector and monitor the temp readings. Tell us what you find.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 07-15-2012, 10:10 PM:

Remember, if you are going to run your booth that hot...you are going to kill your equipment...projectors, servers...etc. This isn't your father's film projector!

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 07-16-2012, 12:17 AM:

quote: Steve Guttag
Remember, if you are going to run your booth that hot...you are going to kill your equipment...projectors, servers...etc. This isn't your father's film projector!

Someone already covered that: [Roll Eyes]

quote: Dark Lord of D-Cinema
And does your booth have any A/C? If so, why isn't it working? You need to correct that, otherwise all of your equipment including the server are at risk of early failure due to the heat.

Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 07-16-2012, 09:18 AM:

Correct me if I'm wrong - if you are not properly cooling your D-Cinema equipment - doesn't that void the warranty?

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-16-2012, 11:40 AM:

That would be the case. The weird thing with the NEC machines is, they put out a couple of thousand BTUs worth of heat out of their back end, so you can have a nice cool room but the machine itself heats it up. That's the only thing I don't like about the NEC.

In fact I'm surprised they haven't figured out some sort of add-on kit to capture all that heat and direct it outside. Think of it, NEC Marketing Dept: You could take $100 worth of sheet metal and sell it for $4200.

Posted by Joris Springer (Member # 4175) on 07-16-2012, 02:19 PM:

The problem is, it does not even have to be the heat, what does the projector say?

We have a similair problem with Barco's shutting off the lamp in the middle of the shows and the one thing we know for sure is that it is not a heating problem. (DP2K 15C, 19B and 12C, so 3 different type of machines with that same problem, the 19B has according to Barco problem with a metal plate in the machine but that plate was already removed)

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 07-16-2012, 04:09 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
heat out of their back end

And what's interesting is that with the NEC Series 1 units, air is DRAWN in though that rear panel - a changeout filter is right there along with the two on the non operating side.

This one oddity with the units in switching exhaust flow for Series change, is a go-figure thing.

-Monte

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 07-17-2012, 12:31 AM:

Last summer our a/c was out for 9 days, by the 4th day it was 95F in the booth. On the 6th day we ran an event on the Barco DP100 with no issues. We have a roof exhaust fan and a 750 cfm centrifugal blower on the Barco exhaust opening. The projector was on 4 hrs. Temps were checked frequently and none came even close to the allowable maximum. Even with high ambient temps, enough air flow can keep the internals at acceptable levels.

Posted by Melanie Loggins (Member # 6454) on 07-17-2012, 03:46 PM:

So, an update: the log indicated that the ambient temp and the lamp temp were high. And further investigation on the booth revealed that a member of my local theatre group, who have been in the building rehearsing for their play this weekend, had closed one of the air conditioning vents. (There are not enough expletives to describe my reaction to that. And I hadn't looked before the movie because, why would I have reason to think one of the vents was closed?) So both air conditioning vent covers have been removed, you know, to prevent them being closed and stuff, and a classy fan-and-cardboard system has been built into the windows of the booth to help circulate air. I got through the rest of the weekend without incident.

And, on a further note, a rep from Barco (hi Jim!) confirmed for us that it's a booth problem, not a projector problem. The projector was doing what it's supposed to do.

Posted by Ron Loggins (Member # 6424) on 07-31-2012, 08:08 PM:

Following up what Melanie posted... We now suspect that the fan motor that exhausts the projector may have overheated. While we don't have a "smoking gun" or burned out motor, nothing else makes sense. Also, the fan (I don't have a make or model) is basically a bathroom fan positioned about 4" above the projector on the roof. My question to the group is: does anybody vent their projectors with a "bathroom type" fan? If this is a bad idea, what do you suggest? A quick google came up with only 1 solution, the ventilation system made by MagnaTech. Are there any other fans you would suggest?

Thanks in advance!

Posted by Adam Fraser (Member # 1074) on 07-31-2012, 08:29 PM:

We use a commercial squirrel cage 1000+ CFM bathroom fan from Grainger.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/BROAN-Ventilator-4TR63

We have 2 exhaust fans installed (one for backup), the other one is a higher CFM but I don't have the model number handy. The other one has been running every night since 1980 and has never quit. This one was installed just in case while we were installing our NEC.

Most places seem to use stack fans right above the projector and those may also work great, just have never tried one.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 07-31-2012, 08:35 PM:

I have an exhaust fan screwed to the ceiling in my projection room that looks similar to this:

It used to be hooked up to my lamphouse with a duct when I still had film, but now it's just open-sided. It exhausts through a duct that goes up through the ceiling and out the roof.

I just use it in the winter, though. In the summer I run an air conditioner that hangs on the wall of the projection room.

Posted by Joe Elliott (Member # 4006) on 07-31-2012, 08:38 PM:

A lot of theaters use what is called a pancake fan.
You want 450 CFM for a smaller projector, and above 600 for a larger one.

http://www.continentalfan.com/ecatalog.php?fantype=industrial&fid=57&s=In-Line+Fans

These are quiet, and are installed inside, out of the weather.

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 07-31-2012, 11:31 PM:

I've used Fan Tech which are very similar to the CFM above and quite inexpensive.

You need an 8 inch version. It sits right on top of the projector and can be attached to it with a thin ribbon of sheet metal and a couple of 8 inch hose clamps. They are very powerful at 500 CFM and pretty quiet if you use a heavy duty 8 inch flexible duct to wherever it exits the room.

You can find them at Grainger or Amazon. I have several of these in service with Barco for 4 years or so with zero problems.

PM me if you want some help.

Who pray tell, told you to use a bathroom fan?

Posted by Melanie Loggins (Member # 6454) on 08-01-2012, 10:04 AM:

Sam, the bathroom fan was at the recommendation of the person who set up our equipment. The same person who didn't start us off with 7.1 even though it was a matter of one cable and then when we wanted to upgrade came and "upgraded" us but I knew it sounded wrong and it turned out he installed the wrong cable, the same one who told us to turn off the server every night, the same one wouldn't return phone calls or email from me even though I'm the one who runs the theatre so I had to get a man to call him, the same one who .... the list goes on and on. A year and a half into this and we're still figuring out stuff he did wrong. This time, though, it's not just a matter of annoyance but of potentially damaging our equipment and/or alienating customers.

Posted by Michael Putlack (Member # 6523) on 08-01-2012, 02:43 PM:

Melanie, it sounds like this guy deserves to be added to the industry deadbeats thread...

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 08-01-2012, 02:54 PM:

Don't use the bugger again. [Smile]

You don't have to take that kind of Sh*t!

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 08-01-2012, 04:09 PM:

Melanie, I agree with Michael P.... you should tell us who that "installer" is so no one else gets screwed over by that clown.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 08-01-2012, 05:18 PM:

I'm particularly impressed by

quote: Melanie Loggins
the same one wouldn't return phone calls or email from me even though I'm the one who runs the theatre so I had to get a man to call him

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 08-01-2012, 09:38 PM:

I think I know who this is, but I won't tell.

Melanie, are you making warranty hours on your bulbs? Are they black when they come out? The systems I did with the fan I mentioned come out nice and clear but for warranty sake they have to come out.

Posted by Melanie Loggins (Member # 6454) on 08-03-2012, 09:51 AM:

Sam, we're averaging about 750 hours per lamp. We had even asked here a long time ago if that was normal because it didn't seem right, but without the overheating problem we didn't have cause to question a temperature issue. (And as for the guy who doesn't return my calls, I'm not going to call him out since, technically, he's not a deadbeat. He did help us buy some pretty sweet equipment and almost got us set up right.)

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 08-03-2012, 01:56 PM:

quote: Melanie Loggins
...He did help us buy some pretty sweet equipment and almost got us set up right.

Melanie, with all due respect that is one of the lamest excuses I have heard in years.

He won't return your calls because you're a woman, he installed a bathroom fan instead of a proper exhaust system on a very expensive piece of equipment, you have been dealing with the expense of sub-standard bulb life, AND you lost shows and reputation with your customers.

That jackalope has done you ZERO, ZIP, NADA in terms of deserving any protection or favors.

ANYONE can give you a "sweet deal" on equipment but if they don't do the install right or fail to provide prompt follow-up service as needed they have ripped you off worse than the guy who charged list prices.

If I were local to you I would gladly come and straighten out your issues for you for material cost only, I hate seeing nice people getting screwed.

Posted by Melanie Loggins (Member # 6454) on 08-03-2012, 02:14 PM:

He didn't cut us any deals - he just helped us choose the right equipment when we really didn't know anything. (And that all happened before I got involved.) But I don't feel any love for him. He's cost us time and money, and part of why we had to learn so much so quickly was because we couldn't count on him for any follow-up. I just don't feel comfortable naming him in a public forum. But I have told people in private to stay away from him.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 08-03-2012, 03:30 PM:

Find a suitable replacement, test him, then come back here and out this beast. No different than a serial abuser. Louis

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 08-06-2012, 01:56 PM:

^^^^^ What Louis said.

Maybe we need a new thread started: "Incompetents in the Industry: Crappy/dishonest techs/installers."

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 08-06-2012, 03:26 PM:

Nah, some among us might end up on it. [uhoh]

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 08-06-2012, 04:26 PM:

LOL Sam you are the LAST person I would ever expect to end up on such a list.

To be fair, the thread has to be about the extreme errors such as in Melanie's case.

We all have had our share of service calls that have gone south...and an occasional tango uniform isn't what I have in mind for that thread.

One of my all time great TU's was when I replaced a motor on an RCA 9030 and didn't align the motor properly, I left is as "good enough" as we were running very late into the scheduled showtime. Guess what happened about a week later? Yep. The vibration chewed up BOTH bronze gears. They called another tech to fix it and they were NOT happy with me.

I have someone in mind that I'd love to put on such a thread...that clown copied ONE install I worked on and suddenly he was calling himself an expert on 35mm systems...he even changed his email addy to reflect that. He worked on "high-end" audio (you know the $5,000 gold-plated Monster Cable kind) prior to that.

I get the distinct displeasure of working with him again at the end of the month. [puke]