Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: TMS vs. LMS

This is topic TMS vs. LMS in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 09-07-2012, 12:41 PM:

What, if anything, is the difference between these two things? I know that one of them allows files to be easily sent around a multiplex to individual screen servers. What is the acronym for that and what does the other one do? Does either one serve any purpose in a single-screen house, or are they for multiplexes only?

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 09-07-2012, 01:09 PM:

Theater Management System, Library Management Server. Others may correct me if I'm wrong, but they are two terms for the same type of device.

I can't imagine why a single screen would need one.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 09-07-2012, 02:03 PM:

Just different names for the same thing IMO. Old Dolby servers servers came in two pieces, the media block part and the storage part that might have been referred to as a LMS by some people but that is a different animal. Cuurent Dolby servers in a cinema with 2 or 3 screens can use one server as an "LMS" but it isn't quite the same as a stand-alone TMS/LMS.
There's rarely a reason to have a TMS/LMS in a single screen venue. The only use would be for high capacity storage if you want to have a very large number of features saved. Most servers these days have a local storage over 1.5TB, close to 100 average size 2D features. I don't think many (any?) screens would have a requirement for more than that. TMS/LMS units typically use a separate RAID array storage unit that can be any size you are willing to pay for, the recommended size depends on how many screens it will be controlling. For 12 screens we usually install about 15TB.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 09-07-2012, 02:43 PM:

Sometimes, LMS is a hardware device for content mass storage, sometimes it is a system or software module within a TMS. In general, it means the mass storage part of a TMS.

You can use a TMS without ANY remote storage, that is, only with the server local storage, if you want.

You could as well only have a central networked storage, feeding content to many servers, without ANY TMS in place.

http://www.doremilabs.com/products/cinema-products/tms/

http://www.barco.com/en/products-solutions/software/theater-management-systems/~/media/Downloads/Brochures/2011/Theater%20Management%20System%20TMS%20brochure.pdf

- Carsten

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-08-2012, 05:12 AM:

quote: Dave Macaulay
Most servers these days have a local storage over 1.5TB, close to 100 average size 2D features.

Canada must really crank up that compression! (For Scott's benefit, I'm assuming you meant 10 average size features.)

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 09-08-2012, 06:39 AM:

bad math day?

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 09-08-2012, 07:54 AM:

Thanks for all responses. I recently saw a quote for a D-cinema installation in a single-screen house that included an LMS. I assumed that it was there to improve the seller's profits and not provide any benefit to the theatre, but I figured I'd check here to be sure.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-08-2012, 10:48 AM:

As some have indicated above...TMS and LMS are tossed about so interchangably though they are distinctly different things BUT often combined into a common device. The LMS really is just the means of storing and retrieving content to send to an individual screen server.

SMS is not used too much in the discussions though it is the "GUI" of any screen server. GDC calls it by name...Dolby mentions it in the lower-left corner.

Anytime you go beyond 1-screen and things are networked to move things about, you have a TMS system, of sorts. Something has to allow for that content to move about and for the user to cause it to happen. Many systems have a form of TMS built in to allow it. Dolby, for instance, has one designate one server within a complex of 3 or less to be the "TMS" server...that server not only must do its normal SMS jobs but also "run" the TMS server that allows the other theatres to share the same SPLs ("shows") and deal with copying content between the theatres, displaying all of the theatres on the "Monitor" page, keep a backup of the SMS databases...etc. It doesn't look like it is doing much more but it is in the background. This is just an example and a form of TMS but without any LMS system since the individual theatres do all of the storing of content on their individual drives.

For a single screen theatre, a LMS normally makes little sense. Putting content on the LMS does not necessarily mean it is ready to play...it will likely have to transfer to the server first so there is an extra step and transfer time. GDC, however, with their TMS/LMS system can transfer content live to an individual screen. As people go towards IMBs you will likely see more LMS situations that can send content real-time to the IMB. The TMS being just the software that lets it all happen.

Right now, in a single screen theatre, if they are to have a large quantity of movies...I suggest going to larger RAID drives...say 2TB drives...in a 4-drive arrary that is going to be just under 6TB of storage or somewhere between 25-30 movies, depending on compression, length, 2K/4K...etc. The bottom line is, it will be more than the theatre could play in a day or even two (including the all-nighters)...and once the movie is on the RAID...it is there until you WANT to get rid of it. Even in a 3-drive array, 2TB drives are going to get about 3.7TB of capacity ...which again should cover most single screen needs.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-08-2012, 04:41 PM:

Steve, using a TMS/LMS on a single screen to load content and then transfer for live streaming play is just dumb. Better to ingest directly onto the playback server and not risk a network issue killing the show.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-08-2012, 06:04 PM:

My apologies...I did not mean to imply that even in the future that single screens should use a TMS/LMS approach though I can see how it would be read that way. I do see that in multies that it could go that way. With sufficient network overhead, redundancy I could see the benefit of a central storage for all theatres...then again, putting all of one's eggs in one basket is really dangerous too. One nice thing of the current scheme is that the TMS/LMS CAN'T take down a show. Every theatre is an island to itself.

Posted by Ian Freer (Member # 1940) on 09-08-2012, 10:10 PM:

Here in NZ (and AUS) a TMS will be needed for the remote monitoring side of a 'VPF recouping' installation (for the NOC to access the playback logs for VPF payments). Perhaps the quoter wasn't trying to just up his profit margin but was quoting to a specification that requires at least a basic TMS? Our VPF provider has provided us with two options, either a basic TMS with no storage for locations with a small number of screens or a TMS/LMS for sites with more screens (4+)...

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 09-09-2012, 08:39 AM:

True, but getting a VPF deal here for a single screen is rather... difficult.