This is topic Can I connect a Geffen Scaler to Doremi via serial? in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Matthew Philp (Member # 7132) on 09-10-2012, 09:36 AM:
Has anyone managed to control a Geffen A/V Cinema Scaler Pro II using the serial port on a Doremi DCP-2K4?
I have no knowledge whatsoever about serial commands, and although the Geffen's instruction manual includes the commands necessary I cant seem to make a connection. Ive added the geffen as a serial device and used the information given to me there to set it up, then created a macro to send the command but i get no response.
Has anyone managed to do this, or does anyone have any ideas about how to achieve it? The main aim is to be able to select inputs using macro commands and eventually add them to my controlview tab on the 2K4 for easy changing of the geffen's inputs.
Any help would be most appreciated.
Matthew
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 09-10-2012, 10:05 AM:
I have not used the Doremi server; I have used the Gefen scaler and have not been terribly impressed.
That said, I do know about serial communication.
First, you need the right kind of cable. Look up the serial pinouts in the manuals. Basic serial communication requires only three pins--TX, RX, and ground, which are usually pins 2,3, and 5 on a DB9 connector. Connectors may be of various types; DB9, DB25, and RJ45 are the most common. Ground should be connected straight-through from one unit to another. TX and RX need to be flipped (so that TX on one unit connects to RX on the other and vice-versa). This may require either a straight-through cable or a null-modem cable (the latter of which is more likely). Whether the connector is male or female means nothing--you need to check the pinouts to figure out what kind of cable you need.
Second, you need to have the same communication parameters on both sides. These are typically listed in groups of four numbers, representing the data rate, number of bits per byte, parity, and number of stop bits. For example, 9600/8/N/1 represents a communication rate of 9600 baud, 8 bits per byte, no parity, and one stop bit. Also, flow control can be set to none, hardware, or software. You need to configure both devices to use the same communication parameters; otherwise, the connection will produce unpredictable results. The settings don't actually matter that much (higher data rates transmit faster, but are more likely to suffer from bad cables or EMI), as long as both sides are set to communicate with the same settings. With most devices, 9600/8/N/1 with no flow control is a good starting point.
Finally, some devices need to be configured to accept external serial control and may not do so by default.
Once you are sure that the cable and communication protocols are set correctly, you can begin to troubleshoot the rest of the setup.
Posted by Matthew Philp (Member # 7132) on 09-10-2012, 10:15 AM:
Hi Scott, Ive tried both a null & straight through cable with no luck, according to the manual, the pin outs are as follows
1-NC
2-RS232 -TX
3-RS232 -RX
4-internal connect to pin 6
5-chassis GND
6-internal connect to pin 4
7-internal connect to pin 8
8-internal connect to pin 7
9-nc
Bits per second - 19200
Data bits - 8
Parity - None
Stop bits - 1
Flow control - none
The add device screen on the doremi includes a field for Message Type, giving an option for fixed-length or end of line byte. This is the only information i cant find. Any further help you could give would be most appreciated.
Matthew
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 09-10-2012, 11:42 AM:
That's half of the information that you need (I assume that it is for the Gefen, correct?). Now you need to find the specifications for the other device (I am assuming that it is the Doremi).
Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 09-10-2012, 12:53 PM:
If the Doremi allows serial settings to be changed (and I see no reason why it wouldn't, as Dolby allows it) It should be very easy to change the settings to match the Gefen. (Or maybe it would be easier to set the Gefen to match the server?)
In any event, with a little effort this will work. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Posted by Edward Havens (Member # 4715) on 09-10-2012, 12:56 PM:
I'm not understanding why one would plug the Gefen in to the Doremi. When we need it, we plug our Gefen directly in to our Christie projector through its DVI 1 port.
Posted by Matthew Philp (Member # 7132) on 09-10-2012, 01:10 PM:
I only want to be able to use the doremi to select inputs on the geffen. We do a lot of conferences etc and on a few occasions they use vga for laptops etc and component for a bluray/dvd player and i need to switch between the two. Ive got all my houselights & audio settings set up on my controlview page on the doremi, but would like to be able to control the geffens inputs from the same screen. - would make my presentation look and run much smoother!
Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 09-10-2012, 05:51 PM:
Maybe first you should hook up a COM equipped laptop to the Geffen and try the commands from there. Then move on.
- Carsten
Posted by Matthew Philp (Member # 7132) on 09-11-2012, 09:12 AM:
I'm going to have another go tomorrow when i get a few quiet minutes. If i get anywhere, I'll report back.
Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 09-11-2012, 02:15 PM:
you can set the serial port on a doremi as you wish, and send anything you want.
Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-12-2012, 12:46 AM:
There are some Geffen units that contain other forms of video input usage. Just the budget line of Gefen has the VGA input from a computer which does directly feed into the projector via the DVI-1 port and a macro assigned to that port for usage.
Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 09-12-2012, 01:03 PM:
So Matthew, Marco confirmed my suspicions.
Here's what you need to do:
First, configure the Doremi's serial port setting to MATCH what the Gefen requires (Baud rate, Bits, Parity, stop bit and flow control).
Then, program your serial commands into the Doremi using the proper syntax.
Connect the Gefen to the Doremi with a standard serial cable and try it. If it doesn't work try using a null modem cable or adapter.
Be patient and you'll get it working.
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-12-2012, 04:32 PM:
Remember too...different systems use different means for generating things like Carriage Return and Line Feed. Some use the Hex numbers with a special character in front like %0D for Carriage Return and %0A for Line feed. Some use the /r for carriage return and /n for line feed and some still use the carrot commands ^M for Carriage Return and ^J for Line feed. It is up to the device that SENDS the command to tell you what they are using to generate those (or other HEX based special characters). I'm pretty sure Doremi uses the /r and /n set of commands.
If in doubt, hook up your computer's serial port to the Doremi (or whatever) and use a program like "Putty" in serial mode set to the same communication protocols as the Gefen and see just what the Doremi is sending out. Conversely, you can use that program to test your commands to the Gefen.
Posted by Matthew Philp (Member # 7132) on 09-13-2012, 09:16 AM:
Right, Ive managed to make it work connected to my laptop using hyperterminal (the commands in the geffen manual are wrong by the way, the inputs instead of being "S SOURCE 1" should be "S SOURCE 01", but after spending a good two hours trying to make it work on the doremi I've given up. After a quick unrelated call to my engineer, he's told me that in the modern doremi's the serial port is disconnected and he's recommended that we look at a ethernet to serial solution. Any one have any further input?
Matthew
Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 09-13-2012, 03:23 PM:
the serial port is NOT disconnected! You have to add the serial "device" into control panel/devices. There you set the serial properties (baud rate etc.).
Then under MACROS you create a "send a message" macro, to the "SERIAL" device, with the command of your choice.
Who's the genius that said that in modern doremis the serial is disconnected???
Posted by Matthew Philp (Member # 7132) on 09-13-2012, 03:27 PM:
The advice came via an engineer at SA, I've added the serial device via device manager, set it all as should be (still not absolutely sure of the hex end command) and set the macro's as you recommend, but cannot get it to work, ive also tried a usb to serial adapter and changed the port to the usb, but still no luck
Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 09-13-2012, 03:41 PM:
did you try to connect the doremi to your laptop and see what comes from the server? Let's start with the basics, let's make sure there is something coming out of the server. But I am 100% sure the serial works.
Also, you may want to test another device as a test bench. Have you got a Dolby CP650 or CP750? They both accept serial commands, and the commands to be sent are known. If you can change the format on a 750, you can also control your scaler!
I haven't got a doremi handy, but have you got a SERIAL device on your control panel? Did you set speed and all values as requested?
Then you setup a new macro, click on ADD ACTION and choose SEND MESSAGE. Select SERIAL on the device name, and on the message tab you can type the command that needs to be sent.
Then you save the macro, go to MACRO EXECUTION and run the macro.
Does that help?
Posted by Matthew Philp (Member # 7132) on 09-13-2012, 03:54 PM:
I haven't been able to connect my laptop yet as the only cable's i have are m/f and i need a m/m to do this which I'll order as I'm sure it'll come in handy in the future, I'll have a go with one of our cp750's when i get a chance.
Ive been doing exactly as you recommend though and had no luck, I do have two geffen units so I'm ready to try the other unit in case the one I'm using has a fault!
Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 09-13-2012, 04:14 PM:
Get a nullmodem cable or x-over adaptor, then first try to send commands from the Doremi to the Notebook.
- Carsten
Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 09-14-2012, 05:45 AM:
I had a look at the manual, did you write the commands in CAPITAL letters?
did you try
S SOURCE 0\r\n
Did you change the default speed of the serial device to the one listed on the manual (19200 if not mistaken?)
Posted by Matthew Philp (Member # 7132) on 09-16-2012, 05:01 AM:
right, Ive connected a laptop to the doremi and sent the commands, the laptop picks up nothing at all. Ive looked in the bios for the doremi and its showing the serial ports (2 actually?) as active but no matter what i try i cant get a response on the pc at all.
Marco, Ive been doing as you recommend, and this works fine from my PC via hyper terminal (using caps or small case doesn't actually make a difference - both work fine)
so i'm stumped...
This isnt something i would actually use a great deal, just would be handy for the few times I would (We are hosting the Cornwall Film Festival here again in November - would be handy for then as they have a large amount of short films on various formats).
If we cant get this to work this way, does anyone know of a simple program that i can use on a windows laptop to create a gui where i can just click a button, and it send the desired command?
Thanks for all your help thus far guys, its really appreciated.
Matt
Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 09-16-2012, 06:18 AM:
Hello Matthew,
Are you using a straight cable? Are you sure you are adding "\" and not "/" at the end? Are you sure you are selecting "serial" when creating the message you're sending?
Do you mind sending me some screenshots?
I tried that command on a doremi with a gefen connected and it worked, that's why I'm puzzled!
Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 09-16-2012, 07:29 AM:
First get it working towards the laptop. Understanding serial communication and cables is a bit complicated first time, but once you know the essentials, it becomes easy to track problems.
You need a nullmodem or crossover cable, not a straight cable. This cable needs to have 2 female D9 at it's end. Using a straight cable (male+female) + gender changer is NOT sufficient, as a gender changer does not cross Tx and Rx like a nullmodem/crossover cable.
Then you need to set communication parameters on both sides to the same values, Baudrate, Format, no handshake or software handshake at first.
And on typical machines you need to make sure you are using the right COM Port. Some machines in the wild have dozends of COM Ports on the OS level. You need to make sure which of those is the physical port on the machine or USB converter.
If you already manage to send commands from the notebook to the scaler, you should already know the proper COM Port.
Do you use a built-in COM Port, or a USB-COM adaptor on the notebook?
- Carsten
Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 09-16-2012, 08:39 AM:
Carsten,
I used the serial cable I use to connect to Dolby equipment, as far as I remember it's a straight cable. And - as mentioned - it worked straight away with a doremi and a Gefen - hence there is no need to check the serial format.
Also, I am fairly sure that serial ports work on doremi, old and new.
Posted by Matthew Philp (Member # 7132) on 09-16-2012, 09:23 AM:
Right, Ive got it working (Finally) - the mistake i had was putting a space in between the S SOURCE 0 & the \r\n.
So the settings necessary in case anyone wants to do this themselves...
Under Devices, Add Serial device and the settings are..
Identifier - Serial (Can be whatever you like though)
Serial Port - /dev/ttyS0
Speed - 19200
Data - 8
Stop bits - 1
Parity - none
Flow Control - none
Message type - fixed-length (leave bytes blank)
Then under macro editor, create new macro
add new action
under input/output, send message
Select device (serial or whatever you put in identifier above)
Message type - text
Message - S SOURCE X\r\n
replace X with...
0 for HDMI
1 for DVI1
2 for DVI2
3 for Comp2
4 for Comp 1
5 for VGA
now all i have to do is update my controlpanel page!
Thanks everyone for their help with this, sorry its been such a pain. I'm off now to call my engineer to rub his nose in it!
Thanks again
Matt
Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 09-16-2012, 11:55 AM:
Glad it worked ![[thumbsup]](graemlins/thumbsup.gif)
What you mean with "update my control panel page"? You mean sofware version? Or you mean the handy page where you can have all the buttons you want to easily call the macros, by the Schedule tab?
Posted by Matthew Philp (Member # 7132) on 09-16-2012, 12:02 PM:
the control tab after schedule... thanks again
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 09-16-2012, 01:00 PM:
What Doremi software version are you running? I am not familiar with said control page!
Posted by Matthew Philp (Member # 7132) on 09-16-2012, 01:07 PM:
We have the latest version on our Doremi's, but the feature has been available since version 2.2 I believe. You want to check out page 167 on the Doremi's latest user manual here
http://www.doremilabs.com/downloads/manuals/DCP-2000_and_DCP-2K4_User_Manual_001822_v1_2.pdf
Its really handy if your doing anything live, we have it set up for house lights, tabs etc and some basic projector controls.
Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 09-16-2012, 02:56 PM:
Yes, it's a bit hidden and it's not straightforward to setup, that's possibly why it's not usually installed as a default - you need to tweak an XML file. Nothing terrible, and very useful as Matthew said.
Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 02-19-2014, 01:59 AM:
It has been 520 days since the last post.