Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: TMS doesn't see server

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Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 11-11-2012, 06:29 AM:

Single screen theater. GDC server NEC projector. Power was down for a week from the storm. Using computer that the TMS is on, the TMS won't connect to the server. NEC software won't connect to projector. VNC won't connect to server either. All connections time out. IP addresses didn't change. Sounds like something in the network switch but doesn't the server send commands to the projector through the switch? Show runs fine using server touchscreen.

Posted by Aleksandar Obradovic (Member # 7266) on 11-11-2012, 07:29 AM:

Hi Richard,

can you tell me what else is connected to that switch you are using? It looks like it is the problem within switch itself like VLANs or dead ports.

BR Alexander

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 11-11-2012, 08:26 AM:

The server, projector, internet router and desktop computer.

Posted by Aleksandar Obradovic (Member # 7266) on 11-11-2012, 08:37 AM:

And switch model/type [Smile]

Did you tried to change switch for similar one just to test is problem with switch? As i can understand communication between server and projector is working so i can assume that those two ports are alive/configured, router is not a problem because it only supply internet to network. You can also try to connect desktop with projetor and/or server with cross-link utp cable and test connection.

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 11-11-2012, 11:33 AM:

I will have to call to find the model. We can't swap it because it's a single screen theater. No other switches on site.

Posted by Tony Bandiera Jr (Member # 2365) on 11-11-2012, 12:57 PM:

Richard, be prepared to buy a new switch. I am willing to bet it got fried when the power went out during the storm. (Power outages during storms frequently have severe surges as the system goes down.)

EDIT: After re-reading the posts again carefully, it is also (more likely) possible that something happened to the desktop computer.....network port/card or corrupted software if it was on when the power went out.

I do hope that your installer put the server, switch, computer, and projector electronics on a HIGH QUALITY UPS? (Tripp-Lite, Middle Atlantic)

If not, now's the time to invest in one before you fry something really expensive.

I do hope you and your employees and families are doing ok after the strom too. [Smile]

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 11-11-2012, 01:08 PM:

Thanks Tony. I forgot to mention that the computer can still access the internet which means it does see the switch.

Posted by Peter Castle (Member # 1997) on 11-11-2012, 04:40 PM:

Is it possible that the switch has dynamic address generation and has changed the addresses of the devices? The computer might be configured to handle that, but the server and projector have fixed addresses.

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 11-13-2012, 05:56 PM:

The switch is an SMC 8505T. All the cat 6 cables that are plugged into the switch have the link light lit up showing valid connection. I have internet on the computer so it sees the switch.

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 11-17-2012, 03:49 PM:

They swapped patch cables around at the switch. No matter what positions they put them in, the computer will not see the server or projector. This is weird because the computer sees the internet just fine running through the switch. Also, the server is controlling the projector just fine through the switch also. Shouldn't the computer see the switch? I can't find it in any of the network settings.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-17-2012, 04:33 PM:

This really sounds like a network configuration issue...gateways not set right, Mask not set right...etc It is REAL easy to get stuff that will partially work if you don't ensure you are on the correct subnet.

Other odd issues can arise if accidentally multiple things are using the same IP...I think I've seen it all.

If your TMS server has two NICs ...what are their IPs? I've seen where a program will use the "other" NIC instead of the one you want (which is what this is sounding like). If you have two NICs (and the wireless counts as a NIC) then try disabling the "other" NIC so only the one that should be on the same subnet is enabled...if that works then work your way back and see where the conflict is (remember you should NEVER have more than one NIC on the same subnet!).

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 11-17-2012, 05:33 PM:

The computer has only 1 network controller. I'm going to check another theater close by that also is a single screen and see what their network settings look like to see if I can find anything different.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 11-17-2012, 05:49 PM:

Neither PC will ever 'see' the switch, it will usually be completely transparent. Unless it is a managable switch with it's own management IP.

Desktop PC, TMS and server both can issue PING commands, as well as show assigned IP adresses. Check if the IP adresses and subnet settings are still consistent, ping each other device, replace switch. A simple switch for testing can be bought around every corner and will cost you 10-20US$.

- Carsten

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-17-2012, 05:57 PM:

What is the IP settings on the:

TMS server
NEC projector
GDC server (both NICs)
Router

List the IP, mask, gateway

This is a flat network...true? That is, the LAN port of the router goes to the switch and all of the NICs of the other devices go to the switch (except the GDC's media NIC which should be open but list its IP settings anyway).

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 11-17-2012, 06:36 PM:

Here is as much as I could get since I'm not at the theater. I went in remotely.....

GDC Server ETH0 to switch 192.168.10.12 255.255.255.0
GDC Server ETH1 192.168.

NEC Projector 192.168.10.10

Router 108.5.149.172

Computer is set to obtain IP automatically. In the router settings, it says the computer's IP is 192.168.1.6 subnet 255.255.255.0

BTW, after power had come back after being off for a week they had no internet. I don't know what was done to fix that. Also, it is a flat network.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 11-17-2012, 06:46 PM:

The pc needs to be 192.168.10.xxx

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 11-17-2012, 06:52 PM:

Do I set that manually in the adapter settings on the PC or through the router? The last time I manually set an IP on a diffrernt PC, I couldnt connect to the internet.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-17-2012, 07:01 PM:

Well there it is...if there isn't a typo.

Your router and computer are on a different network.

You will need to get your computer on 192.168.10.x if you want it talking to the server or projector.

Your router's LAN IP should be on the 192.168.10.x (typically 192.168.10.1) and leave the WAN side alone so you have Internet.

You can add another IP to your TMS' NIC but it would be best to set your router to your network (Which seems to have been chosen based on the NEC default IP from the factory...which is fine).

Meet me in the chat room.

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 11-17-2012, 07:33 PM:

Sorry steve. Had trouble logging into chat.......

I tried changing the LAN IP on the router for that specific connection but says invalid.

New info.......... They said that when power returned, the computer did ask to fix network settings automatically so it does look like it reset the IP to obtain automatically. The question is can I just change the IP in the computers network adapter without having to change any settings in the router??

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 11-18-2012, 06:53 AM:

I've finally got a good grasp on this. The only correction to my previous post of IP addresses is the router's IP is actually 192.168.1.1 not 108.5.149.172

Looking at the routers settings, it's set to give out IP's in a range from 192.168.1.2 - 192.168.1.254 which seems to be the problem since the projector and server are in the 192.168.10.10 range. What do I change on the router?

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 11-18-2012, 07:29 AM:

quote: Richard May
BTW, after power had come back after being off for a week they had no internet. I don't know what was done to fix that. Also, it is a flat network.

That's probably what caused the issue. They either replaced the router or reset it's settings/local LAN IP to fix the internet issue. Now the router offers a DHCP scope of 192.168.1.x to the DHCP based devices (like the PC), while projector and server have their IPs set manually to a different network, 192.168.10.x

All you need to do is to set the router local LAN IP to 192.168.10.1 (or whatever last digit it is now or was). Usually the DHCP scope it offers will follow to that network automatically - if not, you should set it to a similiar range. If you can't do it yourself, call the company/guys that fixed the internet. Tell them the router and it's DHCP scope has to be on the same network as server and projector and that you will/can not change the server/projector IP. They might be able to change it through remote access.

As your projector and server have .10 and .12 static IPs, and your PC has received .6 through DHCP, I would advise to restrict the routers DHCP range to something like 50-254, or anything that starts above 20. Having fixed IPs and DHCP scope in the same range should be avoided, although it doesn't necessarily cause issues. Following this procedure, after a reboot your routers local LAN IP should be 192.168.10.1, and the PC and any other DHPC device would receive IPs from 192.168.10.50 and above, keeping 192.168.10.1-50 for static configs.

The 108.5.149.172 is actually the external WAN IP the router receives when connecting to the internet. It's not important at all.

- Carsten

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-18-2012, 09:19 AM:

Just realize that once you reset the Router's LAN IP to 192.168.10.1 that you will INSTANTLY lose connection to it and the internet! Rebooting the router and the PC should take care of that once your PC asks the router for a new DHCP lease.

It is indeed a good idea to keep the DHCP range out of area where static IPs will reside but a good DHCP server should know what IPs are taken (Static or DHCP) and avoid conflicts. I tend to keep DHCP stuff way out of range (like 220+...it all depends on the system and how many possible DHCP devices could possibly be needed...in a theatre environment...very few, if any).

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 11-18-2012, 09:46 AM:

I cant find how to reset the routers IP. Grrrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!

On another note.......looking into the logs in the router, I noticed that the IP address range before the power failure seems to be the same as after the power went back on.

For instance, all the LAN ethernet connections in September and October were all in the 192.168.1.2 - 192.168.1.9 range. Thay still are the same today.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-18-2012, 11:20 AM:

What make/model of router do you have?

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 11-18-2012, 11:29 AM:

Actiontec Mi424WR from Verizon.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-18-2012, 12:11 PM:

I'm not familiar with that one...It appears to be a combination of FIOS modem/router.

You will need to get to the NETWORK settings (make sure it is on the LAN side...not the WAN or "Internet" or "Broadband" side). The IP address you would be modifying would be 192.168.1.1 so that it reads 192.168.10.1.

Note, you may need to get to some "advanced" screen. Odds are you will need to "save" or upload your settings for them to take effect.

Again, after this change your computer will lose its connectivity to the router until a new DHCP lease is asked for.

Note, nothing would stop you from setting the IPs of the projector, and GDC on the 192.168.1.x network if you wanted to work it from that direction too.

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 11-18-2012, 12:25 PM:

I was thinking of doing that too, but I'm doing all this remotely so I'm not actually near the server or projector. I understand about the LAN side and the WAN side. Maybe I'm missing something in the routers menu. I see all of the LAN info but can't see where to change the router's IP. Thanks for all your help though.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 11-18-2012, 12:57 PM:

Is the TMS you were talking of running on that same PC you mentioned the 192.168.1.6 for? Unless there was bridging configured on that router, or a more complex routing scheme, it can never be that it worked with the TMS having 192.168.1.x and the Server and projector being on 192.168.10.x.

Of course you can change either Projector and Server to 192.168.1.x, or the TMS-PC manually to 192.168.10.x

But I wouldn't risk anything with the running Server/Projector combination, there might be things like a jnior connected as well.

If you change the PC/TMS IP manually to 192.168.10.x, the TMS will certainly talk to the server again, but have no internet. If that's no problem, then go ahead.

It would be better to get a detailed report about what was done to fix the internet issue. Usually, in a simple network that most smaller houses have, a change of router local LAN IP is no big deal, and your server and projector will usually be the reference about which network it was before.

On the other hand, some people also think that it is a good idea to have the screen network/server/TMS/projector completely separate from the internet router.

It might just be that router and screen network had been on different networks by intention so to achieve a minimum separation. And maybe the PC has two network cards installed, one towards the router/internet, and one towards the screen network. The first one with DHCP towards the router, the second one with a static IP for the screen network 192.168.10.x

Did you post the servers second ethernet interfaces IP, I think I missed that?

Maybe you don't get this solved remotely, not without local help. At least you need to know the IP that the servers second ethernet interface is set to - the TMS ethernet-connection needs to be in the same network.

The SMC 8505T is a very simple switch without any management or VLAN options. If it was the same before, I can only imagine your network between TMS and Doremis second ethernet interface is not working anymore.

Can you get someone near the server and look up both interfaces IP adresses?

- Carsten

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 11-18-2012, 01:20 PM:

The TMS is on the same computer. The only thing on the network is the server and projector so changing those 2 IP's would be a simple fix. The computer only has one network card. They said when power came back, they had wireless internet from other computers but nothing on the TMS computer when it powered up. They said a message came up to fix network settings automatically. They clicked it and I'm assuming windows changed the IP to match the router.

The server is a GDC. The second ethernet port is not used....the IP is.........192.168

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 11-18-2012, 01:52 PM:

Okay, I guess you should adjust the PCs subnet to the same as the server then, then check if the TMS sees the server. The PC might loose it's internet connection at first. If you remote from the internet onto that PC, you will loose your remote option.

Server, projector and general network on the same subnet - usually I wouldn't do it that way. The server->projector connection should be on a dedicated network, that's why the server has two network interfaces. That connection is critical for automation and Cinelink encrypted connection. If you share this with other, general devices, every faulty network equipment or software can bug the server-projector connection and stop the presentation.

Also every local WiFi device like iPhones, iPads, staff, concession computers, guests with the necessary Wifi key can e.g. VNC to server or projector or put load onto the network, again interfering with automation and cinelink. This will only go well for a time.

But that is nothing you should fix now - reconsider it at a later time.

I guess all that changed was a specific manual IP setting on the TMS computer.

- Carsten

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-18-2012, 01:56 PM:

If you want to get it up and going remotely today...just add the second subnet to the TMS. That is, go to your TCP/IP (IPV4) of the TMS and, for the "advaced>add" put in the 192.168.10.6 or whatever with the 255.255.255.0 subnet (NO GATEWAY). That should allow both networks to be visible to the TMS.

The downside of reconfiguring the DCinema stuff is making sure EVERYTHING gets reconfigured. There are actually THREE (3) NICs on a GDC SX-2001. ETH0, ETH1 and the Security Manager (SM) above the HDSDI ports. If you have an IMB, you would not have that one. If you don't have an IMB and you aren't yet hooked up to the SM....you will be eventually!

Long-term fixing it in the router is the best solution. That will also allow you to put the server on an NTP server too.

Though silly (due to the extra complication and cost), you could always put a router between the DCinema equipment and the Verizon router to allow the separate IPs to co-exist.

Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 11-18-2012, 04:02 PM:

I'm going to have to go there and try and figure this out. I tried adding the second IP and subnet in the advanced tab, but it won't let me add anything while in the auto IP mode......

Update..........Thanks again guys. Here is what I ended up doing. I had to set the manual IP to 192.168.1.16 in the computer. I then had to set the submask to 255.255.255.0 then set gateway to 192.168.1.1 then DNS to 192.168.1.1. Only then did it allow me to add a second IP which I set to 192.168.10.6 and submask 255.255.255.0. Now everything is working properly. I couldn't have figured it out without you guys. Thanks much.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 11-19-2012, 08:03 AM:

If the TMS function is dependent on 'just' this network card setting, which indeed can be reset to DHCP by simply clicking on 'repair connection' by anyone surfing the internet on that machine - this needs to be fixed.

- Carsten