Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Mixing 2K and 4K content

This is topic Mixing 2K and 4K content in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Phil Ranucci (Member # 3820) on 12-25-2012, 01:30 AM:

Barco 12C and GDC server. "Lincoln". like "Skyfall" is only available as a 4K DCP. If we use the regular 2K scope macro, 2K trailers look fine but the feature only shows the middle of the image. The installers built a 4K macro that runs the feature fine, but the 2K trailers float in the middle of the screen. I realize that a 'C' series Barco will not show 4K, but is there any way to allow 4K to be mixed with 2K and show all of the image and fill the screen?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-25-2012, 07:12 AM:

One should not have to do anything. Are you sure you are not confusing say a "Flat" preview of a scope movie as an image floating the in the middle of the screen?

The projector will have NO special settings whatsoever. In fact, the server does not have a "4K" setting per show.

Is your GDC using a conventional medial block (two HDSDI cables), the older IMB (PCIe cable) or the current "R" IMB (Ethernet) connection?

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-25-2012, 11:07 AM:

We have a GDC server and have no such issues -- 4K plays just like 2K does.

Posted by Phil Ranucci (Member # 3820) on 12-25-2012, 02:42 PM:

We've got the GDC media block that uses ethernet. The trailers are the same format as the feature.
They aren't letterboxed, they are surrounded by empty screen.
The special macro uses a 4KDCDMYYZ PCF file, while the normal scope macro 2K uses a 2KDCDXYZ PCF file.
This was a problem with all of the Barcos that were installed at this site. I've called the NOC, but they're at a loss.

Posted by Ian Freer (Member # 1940) on 12-25-2012, 04:37 PM:

Hi Phil

I encountered a similar problem installing my first few of the new GDC IMB's (with NEC Projectors).
The solution I discovered was to set up my Projector Macro's (Titles in NEC-terms) using "DCDM_XYZ_Auto" PCF files, rather than DC4K and DC2K PCF Files. I have not had a chance to look further into what is happening or why with GDC yet, but it must be something to do with how the new IMB handles scaling 4K content down to 2K...
(and I'm not sure what will happen if using a 4K Projector).

I'm not familiar enough with Barco to know if they have the same options for 'AUTO' PCF files, but if they do, you could try using these and you hopefully you'll no longer have to switch between specific 2K and 4K Macro's.

Now in essence, Lens, Screen and Lamp files are now the only differences between my 2D-FLAT and 2D-SCOPE macro's.

Cheers,
Ian

Posted by Mattias Mattsson (Member # 4308) on 12-25-2012, 04:38 PM:

We've had tons of issues with this. Settled with dedicated 2K/4K presets for now.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-25-2012, 07:00 PM:

There is your problem!!! ALL of your PCFs should be the 2K. I wish Barco would not include the 4K stuff on the 2K projectors...particularly the in the base clone files where there is a non-imb version...obviously there won't be any need for the 4K stuff on a non-imb.

Try using the 2K PCF on your 4K movie...things should be fine.

Posted by Mattias Mattsson (Member # 4308) on 12-25-2012, 10:31 PM:

I'm sorry, I was a bit unclear. I was refering to Barco 4K ("B" series) projectors. We use separate 2K/4K presets because:

a) Using 2K PCF with 4K material crops the image.

b) Using 4K PCF with 2K material renders CineCanvas subtitles _outside_ of the active image area (also on top of the electronic masking!).

This is with Barco v1.9.104 and ICP v4.1.1

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-25-2012, 11:55 PM:

If it is a 4K projector, only the 4K PCF should work. If not, this would imply that the IMB is the cause. I'll admit that I'm a bit new to the GDC HFR IMB. It should be able to be set up for 4K only output to avoid such things. I'll say on other brands of IMBs I have worked with, one need not change their PCF for the different resolutions.

Posted by Ian Freer (Member # 1940) on 12-26-2012, 02:40 AM:

Steve, does Barco have any 'DCDM_XYZ_AUTO' PCF Files?
This is what worked on the NEC 2K's I have been using with the GDC HFR IMB.
It's a pretty simple solution on the NEC's (although I only discovered through trial and error) and so far the only setup I've found that ensures my customers do not need to use separate 2k and 4K presets with these IMB's in 2K projectors.

It did catch me out as other IMB's (even the first GDC IMB) did not exhibit this behaviour.

Cheers,
Ian

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 12-26-2012, 08:24 AM:

The 12C is a 2K projector. I've run into this with Doremi IMB systems, the fix there is to delete the 4K license in the server and then everything is just fine. Does the GDC server have a 4K license you can remove?
The problem is that the IMB will try to send 4K content to the projector if it thinks you have a 4K projector... and before HFR the only reason to have an IMB was for 4K so they generally come from the factory set for 4K. Various odd results ensue, you've pretty much described them. You have to figure out how to convince the server that you only have a 2K projector and then it will downscale 4K content to 2K and present a proper image without having to use weird PCFs.
Best is to ask GDC how to do this, but I'm certain the solution is in the server - not the projector.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-26-2012, 10:27 AM:

It looks like NEC's "auto" PCF is a standard DCDM_XYZ but with the size parameters set to "0". Perhaps the ICP interprets a size of 0x0 as an "auto."

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-26-2012, 04:27 PM:

I have asked GDC...and there is truth in the above statements. That is, at the moment, with the HFR IMB...one does have to switch between 2K and 4K on the projector to get the projector to scale for the various formats.

This is not the permanent solution though...at some point in the near future, there will be a means for the scaling to be done in the IMB.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-27-2012, 01:01 PM:

When we contact GDC when we encountered this issue they said that the scaling in the IMB was removed due to DCI compliance and would not be put back in