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Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 12-26-2012, 11:44 AM:
Has 3D film-making had its day?
quote:
It's three years since audiences around the world swarmed into cinemas to see James Cameron's Avatar. It rapidly became the biggest grossing film of all time, in part because of its ground-breaking digital 3D technology.
But, in retrospect, Avatar now seems the high-point of 3D movie-making, with little since 2009 to challenge its achievement. Three years on, has the appeal of 3D gone flat?
Nic Knowland has been a respected director of photography in Britain for 30 years. He's seen cinema trends and fads come and go, but never one for which he's had so little enthusiasm as 3D.
"From the cinematographer's perspective it may offer production value and scale to certain kinds of film. But for many movies it offers only distraction and some fairly uncomfortable viewing experiences for the audience. I haven't yet encountered a director of photography who's genuinely enthusiastic about it."
'No resemblance'
Nic Knowland's opinion of 3D is backed by another British cinematographer Oliver Stapleton, who has shot Hollywood movies such as The Cider House Rules and The Proposal.
"3D is antithetical to storytelling, where immersion in character is the goal. It constantly reminds you you're watching a screen - and it completely prevents emotional involvement. Natural human vision bears no resemblance to 3D in the cinema."
"2D doesn't reveal the smoke and mirrors of filmmaking in the same way. Of course that's partly because we're used to it, but also - it's not trying to mimic our vision.
"My goal as a cinematographer is to make the stitches in the cloth invisible. 3D says 'Look at me, I'm a picture!', 2-D simply says 'Once upon a time...'"
Life of Pi Ang Lee believes effective use of 3D is all about good direction
Both Knowland and Stapleton accept that 3D technology can contribute to animated films such as Avatar (which Nic Knowland says is probably the best use of 3D he knows). But neither has been persuaded by anything since James Cameron's huge hit that the medium can reliably serve the needs of serious drama.
A current release that might give doubters pause for thought is Ang Lee's film, Life of Pi. Critics have praised the director's imaginative and sure-footed use of 3D, as the young hero drifts on the ocean slowly taming an impressively realised and very scary tiger.
Ang Lee is adamant that used intelligently 3D has now earned its place in drama: "Maybe because the 3D experience is still new, it does confuse some audiences. But a good director can use that confusion as a convincing-tool, to make audiences believe in what's on screen."
'Natural level'
But did Ang Lee have initial doubts about the technology? "Oh all the time. We have a long relationship with how 2D looks and with the good storytelling it's given us. We've grown up enjoying its solidity - although filmmakers compensate the eye with the illusion of depth and with shadows.
"3D is more elusive - we trust and mistrust it at the same time. I think it reminds us of the first movies we saw in our childhoods."
"When a new medium comes along, people don't take it seriously because we don't associate it with good filmmaking. It gets used for cartoons, action movies and cheap horror. But the medium itself is neutral - it's how you use it. And we're still establishing its language."
Torsten Hoffmann is a German who recently moved his 3DContent Blog website to Australia. From there he's following what he says is now the real growth in the 3D market: Asia, and especially China and South Korea.
"China alone has around 10,000 screens equipped for 3D - that's almost a quarter of the worldwide total. And where Chinese audiences have been offered a choice between seeing the same film in 3D or flat in 2D, they've overwhelmingly chosen the former. And it's not just in the cinema - CCTV (China's main state broadcaster) is investing heavily as well."
Robert Mitchell, of Variety magazine in London, says since 2009 3D has found its natural level with audiences in Europe and America.
"Most people have become pretty sophisticated about what they genuinely need to see in digital 3D, as opposed to films where they suspect it won't improve the experience - or may even be annoying. After the high-point of Avatar, people got smart about lesser films where it probably wouldn't be worth paying the 3D surcharge.
Hugo Martin Scorsese used 3D to admirable effect in his 2011 film Hugo
"And the studios aren't stupid: they soon realised that almost no one goes to see a movie just because it's in 3D. When a film is well thought-out from the beginning for 3D, you can see that. Good recent examples are the animated film Madagascar 3: Europe's Most Wanted or the most recent Transformers movie. On the other hand I think the final Harry Potter film didn't benefit from being in 3D at all."
"Directors such as Wim Wenders, Werner Herzog, Martin Scorsese and Ang Lee have shown that 3D can be used interestingly.
"3D isn't all junk - and those who say the technology has proved a flop are exaggerating. But so far Christopher Nolan isn't a fan and we'll never see Quentin Tarantino in 3D - he doesn't even like digital."
"The next big test may be Baz Luhrman's version of The Great Gatsby, due for release in May and starring Leonardo DiCaprio. It doesn't seem like a natural fit for 3D, but Luhrmann's a very stylistic director and he may make it work."
"But it's true that the sense there was three years ago - that the studios wanted 3D to be the automatic choice for all big movies - has passed. The filmmakers fought back and won."
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-26-2012, 02:40 PM:
That's just a very long-winded way of saying "the novelty has passed." 3-D is just a format. People now have the choice to see a movie in 2-D or 3-D.
All that's left is for the studios to actually let the market drive the decisions about how the movie will be screened, i.e. in the biggest auditoriums or not. They are still demanding things like the biggest screen, the "prime" showtimes, etc. for 3-D.
When the studios stop worrying about that stuff and just let the chips fall where they may, it'll be possible to see a 2-D version of a movie in just as good a facility as the 3-D version. At that point there won't be any reason for people to gripe anymore.
Posted by Edward Havens (Member # 4715) on 12-26-2012, 11:36 PM:
Must have been a slow news day at the BBC.
Posted by Cassandra Palko (Member # 5362) on 12-26-2012, 11:45 PM:
Has a theatre out there ever run the 2D and 3D showings in the same building (but different auditoriums) at the same time?
Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 12-27-2012, 12:15 PM:
We sold 50% more tickets for the 2D version of The Hobbit than the 3D version, but at least in Milwaukee, the premium screens were only showing the 3D version last night when I went.
I purposely did not want to see it in 3D, because I wanted to enjoy the movie on its own merits, and to save the possible distraction of 3D, HFR, and Atmos for a second viewing.
Consequently, only two weeks after its release and still #1 in the box office, I was no longer able to view the 2D version of the movie in the best auditoriums possible, and the presentation I did get made me wish I could have watched it at home instead.
Perhaps I am unfairly biased against 3D, but with the exception of Avatar (which I believe used 3D as part of the movie experience), I just have not been impressed by any 3D presentations. Hugo was really good 3D-wise, but I saw it in both formats within weeks of each other and 3D wasn't needed to tell what was already a good story. If the best that can be said is that "the 3D didn't suck" then it probably wasn't worth the upcharge.
It will be interesting to see what Peter Jackson can do with the format. Personally, I don't see 3D being used in serious movies for much longer. Upper echelon directors can use it effectively, but will they continue to want to? I see it as either "scratching an itch" to see what they could do with the format, or it was imposed upon them by a studio looking to maximize profits.
In the future, I think popcorn movies like Transformers will have 3D as a novelty item to attract their target audience, but are we going to see future classics done in 3D? Doubtful.
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-27-2012, 01:51 PM:
I guess that's an advantage of a single screen...you have to wait for a 2-D showing but you get the same experience as the 3-D people.
We are showing The Hobbit right now, running 2-D on Wednesday/Thursday. Depending on the movie we'll run anywhere from 1 to 4 nights of the week in 2-D. Or if it's a little kiddie type movie we'll run the whole week in 2-D sometimes, if we didn't play the movie on the break. I'm glad the studios finally came to their senses on that issue.
Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 12-27-2012, 02:51 PM:
It lasted 3 years; 2 years more than I thought it would. And this time every screen was perfect, since it was just installed by a certified installer. louis
Posted by Jack Theakston (Member # 4484) on 12-27-2012, 04:04 PM:
quote: Scott Jentsch
Perhaps I am unfairly biased against 3D, but with the exception of Avatar (which I believe used 3D as part of the movie experience), I just have not been impressed by any 3D presentations.
I keep seeing statements like this, and it's not to take away from your opinion, Scott, but I don't see where AVATAR did anything that hadn't been done before, and isn't being done now. Is this based on comparing to other 3D movies of this last decade, or is this a stand-alone thought? What made it stand out?
3D conversions aside (and I have yet to see a good 3D conversion), many of the 3D films today seem to use 3D in the same semi-conservative way AVATAR did, and AVATAR is merely following in the footsteps of a lot of previous "serious" 3D movies that did same.
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-27-2012, 07:06 PM:
As long as people keep insisting that 3-D "enhance the storytelling," they will probably be disappointed. 3-D just makes things look closer or farther away. People expect too much from it.
Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 12-27-2012, 10:47 PM:
"Hobbit" (24fps) in 3D isn't too bad. But the classic 'multiplane' (the layered appearance) effect of live action 3D films still prevails.
CGI animated films is better, but those are getting very tiresome as well.
At least, "le Mis" and "Django" didn't get exposed to this novelty.
Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 12-27-2012, 11:12 PM:
This latest round of 3D didn't start with Avatar in 2009. It started with Chicken Little way back in 2005. Since then we have gotten to the point where most multiplexes are capable of showing 3D in some format or other with relative ease. We have a 3D spec for home entertainment, and a fair amount of content available. We have 3D video games. We have 3D camcorders. We have 3D TVs. I'm not sure how entrenched something has to get in the entertainment culture before it's no longer a "novelty" or "fad" but surely we must be getting close to that point by now.
Posted by Jeff Kane (Member # 6372) on 12-28-2012, 02:25 PM:
...except that 3D at home seems to have had little takeup. DirecTV has cut back their 3D programming drastically, Sony has all but dropped 3D game development, and even Samsung has said that what's selling TVs is 'net connectivity and 3D isn't driving sales. As far as becoming 'the norm' as with HDTV... not looking likely.
Posted by Ian Parfrey (Member # 5122) on 12-28-2012, 05:11 PM:
Quite the opposite of a slow news day at the BBC, history is merely repeating itself. The nay-sayers ( I put myself squarely in this catagory ) initially were critqued negatively as the 3D bandwagon got a head of steam. But this isn't an 'I'm right - You're wrong' argument. The very same issues that killed off 3D will do it again- in movies, games, home theatre &tc.
I really like how Scott phrased his opinions of the 3D phenomonon. He makes very astute points and I agree with his views.
quote: Scott Jentsch
If the best that can be said is that "the 3D didn't suck" then it probably wasn't worth the upcharge.
'Nuff said.
Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 12-29-2012, 02:16 PM:
Wasn't this whole 3D push also a more or less hidden scheme of Hollywood to get the Digital conversion rolling in the first place?
Obviously, when the place across the street was showing something in flashy new Digital 3D, you could not be left behind, so you also had to upgrade at least one of your screens to Digital.
Technicolor joined the party somewhere at the end of 2009 with their film-based 3D system, probably partly to extend the death sentence of their film business with a year or two.
Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 12-29-2012, 06:26 PM:
Of course it was!!!!!
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-29-2012, 08:56 PM:
quote: Jeff Kane
3D at home seems to have had little takeup
That's because it sucks. The 3D industry thinks that everyone watching TV is sitting there, glued to the set. That's not the case. People are partying, visiting, cleaning house, reading, Facebooking, working, canoodling, etc. with the TV on. None of which is possible or fun to do while wearing 3D glasses...and it's a pain to have to slip your glasses back on whenever you want to catch a glimpse of the set.
Then there is the size issue. 3D on a 45" or smaller TV just looks puny. You need to fill your field of vision as much as possible, otherwise it looks underwhelming.
Then the expense. If people are watching an "event" like a movie they're inclined to invite a bunch of friends. That means more expensive glasses. Or, maybe the little kids break the glasses during one of their many temper tantrums. Or the dog chews them. Any of a dozen possible scenarios there.
In the theater you're wearing the glasses but you are THERE to watch the movie and you don't have the distractions of daily life asking you to take them off.
We've created a few new theatrical 3D fans by advising them to set several rows closer to the screen than they would normally so the picture fills more of the glasses frame. These days, in most of our 3D showings the bottom of the theatre is more crowded than usual with only a few people in the top half.
Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 01-02-2013, 09:54 AM:
quote: Jack Theakston
I keep seeing statements like this, and it's not to take away from your opinion, Scott, but I don't see where AVATAR did anything that hadn't been done before, and isn't being done now. Is this based on comparing to other 3D movies of this last decade, or is this a stand-alone thought? What made it stand out?
Before Avatar, the 3D movies that I saw (starting with Superman Returns) used what appeared to me to be a cardboard cutout effect to create depth. Very unrealistic.
Avatar was the first movie to impress me because the cutout effect was gone, and I felt as though there were multiple levels of depth and the transitions were smoother. It wasn't until Hugo that I felt that 3D was done well again, but admittedly, I did my best to avoid 3D presentations.
3D in the home actually works better for me in non-movie situations. It's still a novelty, but it's fun to sit down and watch a 3D nature documentary every once in a while. Playing Super Stardust HD in 3D on the PS3 takes a fun game to an entirely new level, and has made me a hit with my nephews.
When it came time to invest in a new home theater projector, did I spend the extra $1500 for a 3D capable model? No. Do I regret it? Only slightly. I admit to being very curious how it would look on a 10' wide screen vs. the experience in theaters, but if I had to make that cost investment decision again, it would have to be for more reasons than just 3D to choose the 3D-capable model.
3D is a technology that is now as good as it probably can be, but those in charge of using it have not found a way to use it that actually improves the product to such a degree that it's a must-see item. Avatar did that, other movies have not.
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