Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: how are you supposed to know which DCP to ingest in advance

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Posted by Gavin Lewarne (Member # 5397) on 01-10-2013, 02:25 PM:

this may be a stupid question (probably is)

we are an art-house venue, with some mainstream thrown in. Only recently converted to digital (early December)

I have the DCP naming convention chart to understand and identify the various names of the DCPs we get.

Most of the hard drives only contain a blah_blah_OV DCP, which I understand to be the "original version" , so this is easy to deal with.

Some of them however, are a little more difficult. We recently had our copy of the hobbit delivered, and were requested to send it on as soon as we ingested it, as the driver was instructed to wait on site. There were none of the usual "instructions" in the box, just the hard drive.

since we dont run 3d, and have 5.1 sound, there were three possible DCPs for us to ingest. We were not going to receive the KDM for until we reopened after christmas, and the distributor had closed early and shut for chirstmas so I could not call them for info.

Now, 3x copies of the hobbit amounted to nearly 900gb for ingestion, which took a long time. The DCP file names contained information not explained in my naming conventions chart such as HOH AD etc etc. In this instance, i had plenty of capacity on the server so just ingested them all and deleted what i didnt need when the KDM arrived, and unlocked the blah_blah_VF copy. everything worked out in this instance.

However.....

previously we were screening "the master" and in the box were instructions to ingest both the OV version and the VF version, which I did. When we received the KDM, it unlocked the VF version, which on our test play turned out to be the audio descriptive version! wasnt expecting that! A last minute panic call to the distributor and they sent us the KDM for the OV version, which was the correct version.

Is this sort of vague inconsistency (OV vs VF versions) common? surely its an issue for those running low on space on their servers with instructions to ingest and move it on, with the KDM to be delivered in the future? If I ingested everythign on every hard drive we get i would run out of space real fast.

Thanks for any hints you can give me on this!

Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 01-10-2013, 02:40 PM:

Since this situation you describe is extremely commonplace, I err on the side of caution and ingest all the content. The only exception to this is - when I am 100% sure what I need. The factors that help determine this:

1) Have I already received the keys? If I have, I know which version will be unlocked, and I ingest only what I need.

2)If there is indeed a driver waiting to leave with the hard drive, I ingest all the content.(Here in the states, we keep the hard drive during the entire run of the film. In case something happens)

Again, it's quicker to erase unneeded content after the fact rather than trying to ingest content that you actual needed (especially if there are time constraints). If you have a server hard drive space issue, you should insist on keeping the hard drives around for the run of the feature.

Posted by Bajsic Bojan (Member # 4928) on 01-10-2013, 02:54 PM:

here's one:

Ask the distributors for the KDM before getting material to ingest. Make it a habit!

Then you'll know before. Otherwise you wont. Ever.

Still better to ingest 3 different movie files, than getting a hard drive with 3 dcps titled 'EasyDCP Creator project' while already having 2 previous dcps titled 'EasyDCP Creator project' on the server. Fun.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-10-2013, 02:56 PM:

Assuming you are not running 3D, using standard audio and lighting, and not using captions, it's pretty easy to pick what you want. Just go across the file name.

You are right to avoid anything with "VF" at the end. Only use "OV" files. That'll narrow it down somewhat right there.

Of course, avoid using the file marked 3D for obvious reasons.

Avoid anything with "OCAP" in the filename -- that's an open caption file. It is OK to use a file marked CCAP.

Avoid anything with "71" -- which is 7.1 audio. Look instead for "51".

Avoid anything saying "6fl" which is the high-light format. Look for "3.5fl" or "4fl"

quote: Bajsic Bojan
ask the distributors for the KDM before getting material to ingest.

That doesn't always work. For Life of Pi, we got keys for about every format there was.

Posted by Bajsic Bojan (Member # 4928) on 01-10-2013, 03:04 PM:

yes, that happens too.

but thinking about the op:

quote: Mike Blakesley
You are right to avoid anything with "VF" at the end. Only use "OV" files. That'll narrow it down somewhat right there.

Of course, avoid using the file marked 3D for obvious reasons.

Avoid anything with "OCAP" in the filename -- that's an open caption file. It is OK to use a file marked CCAP.

Avoid anything with "71" -- which is 7.1 audio. Look instead for "51".

Avoid anything saying "6fl" which is the high-light format. Look for "3.5fl" or "4fl"

This is NOT the best advice. VFs and OCAP versions are very very very common in int. releases of what you amuricans call 'foreign' film. Op states he is arthouse/crossover house, so i will assume he would be willing to play the european titles that are i.e. Oscar nominees, GoldenBear awards, Venice Lion awardee or whatever. Festival copies of movies also usually come as VF (usually only as suplemental files, so not the same size as OV!, but you still have to ingest both as one wont work without the other then).

6FL vs 4.5FL only applies to 3d, so he is ditching those anyway.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 01-10-2013, 03:05 PM:

The other annoying thing is that knowing which version they sent you keys for doesn't tell you which version they'll send one for in a week or two when they expire.

For instance, where I worked previously I recall being thankful we kept around the CCAP add-on DCP for a certain movie since the new keys were only for it. Otherwise, I'd have spent a late night wasting time on the phone with a rep to get the same type of key we'd been sent before; instead, I was able to quickly push those DCPs to the houses and change the playlists to use the CCAP version.

Posted by Gavin Lewarne (Member # 5397) on 01-10-2013, 07:05 PM:

thanks for the advice everyone, appreciate it!

I will be more pro-active with getting the key info from the distributors, but being a single screen with a 3tb server, it would only take 3 of the "hobbit" situations to fill our drive space. Suppose i will get more into the swing of things the more we use it and work everything out.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 01-10-2013, 07:37 PM:

Doing it this way is calling for trouble sooner or later. There are things like subfeatures, where you actually have to ingest two or even more features to enable all necessary assets. Usually there is a leaflet with that drive with instructions, but sometimes it is missing or overseen.

Best thing is to have a large harddisk available on which you can copy the full content of the original drive. Yes, this is possible, at least if you have an EXT enabled computer. Then you can return the original drive any time and still have all options for ingest later. This simple copy, if done over USB3 or SATA, is also much faster than a regular ingest, so the driver will like that, too.

- Carsten

Posted by Edward Havens (Member # 4715) on 01-11-2013, 12:56 AM:

Have you tried logging in to your accounts at http://digitalcinema.bydeluxe.com/ or https://cinema.technicolor.com/ and looking at the Projectionist's Letter for the movie in question?

Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 12-13-2015, 12:29 AM:

It has been 1065 days since the last post.

Posted by David Favel (Member # 1125) on 12-13-2015, 12:29 AM:

Small addendum, you can also try motionpicturesolutions.com
Not huge in the States, but quite big rest of the world.

Posted by Andy Frodsham (Member # 4061) on 12-14-2015, 04:04 AM:

We are an art house venue in Stoke and have the same difficulties, Gavin - and don't get me started on subtitles!

If in doubt, I ingest two or more versions of the film. I don't believe that each version of the film occupies the same space as the original one. If you do a multiple file ingest you will see that the other versions load very quickly as they only take-up a small additional space.

I always ignore 3D, OCAP and 7.1 versions, of course, but anything else is debatable.

Audio described narration shouldn't cause a problem if your system is setup correctly. I always ingest these anyway as we do have a compatible system - though it's never used!!

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 12-14-2015, 07:01 AM:

Well, there are more and more films that actually come with a full OV for foreign language versions. As such, it does make sense to check the CPL names before ingest instead of ingesting everything. I remember seeing an ingest running on our machine that would have meant around 700GB would have been ingested for a single feature we only wanted to show in a single version. But, of course, if in doubt and/or in a hurry, better ingest everything. I do spend considerable time to clean up versions after they have been ingested on our system. Makes it easier that the system complains the deletion if the feature we want to play is contained in a playlist. So if there is no complaint while trying to delete that VF, I can be sure the content is not needed for the CPL we need.

Yes, some features, especially in europe, can be really complicated to analyze. I remember Big Hero 6 being extremely scattered, versions and folders being all over the place...

- Carsten

Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 02-17-2017, 04:59 AM:

It has been 430 days since the last post.

Posted by Juan Jose Garcia Calvo (Member # 1702) on 02-17-2017, 04:59 AM:

There is any way to know what OV CPL does it need a VF CPL as their BASE CPL?

We can open a KDM with an xml editor to see what CPL is associated... maybe there is any XML file inside the CPL where we can read the OV CPL associated to this VF CPL...

Any idea?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-17-2017, 06:28 AM:

There is an XML file for each CPL (be it OV or VF) and that CPL file will indicate which MXF files (Video/Audio) and subtitle files make up the CPL (movie). Generally, the VF will have the same name as the OV except the part that changes (e.g. 71 instead of 51 if it is a Surround 7.1 version).

Better servers will find the bits and pieces that make up the VF without needing to ingest the OV separately.

Posted by Lucas Iaccarino (Member # 8762) on 02-22-2017, 05:20 PM:

Probably you should check the one that shares the same MXF files.
I used DCP Players Demo Software (EasyDCP for example) to see how each CPL is conformed, and then decided which files to play.