Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: What will something like the RED Cinema Projector do to the industry?

This is topic What will something like the RED Cinema Projector do to the industry? in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Mike Hillyer (Member # 7436) on 01-21-2013, 05:19 PM:

Quick question, but how do you expect something like RED's new laser projector to change things? At $10K for a home version, I expect the Cinema version won't be near as expensive as the current hardware, will it become the choice for independent theaters?

I know it's not out yet, so all is speculation, etc.

Also, I don't really know the economics of theater operations yet so bear with me, but does a low cost system for projection and distribution allow for a "Wal-Mart" model of theater? For example, old department stores charged more for goods, and turned them over 4x a year. Wal-Mart charged less, but turned over their inventory 16x a year.

Could someone use even the $10K projector, create a theater with fewer seats and a 15" screen, and price it low enough to get a high number of butts in seats for each showing? A dollar theater? I was picturing a two-screen theater in a space normally occupied by a retail store in a box mall, but priced so low people would go on a whim, and even repeat-view because hey, it's so cheap. Keep is so small you can use a minimal staff, using a laser projector that pretty much means no booth needed, selling tickets from the concession stand.

Is something like that even feasible?

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-21-2013, 05:41 PM:

I don't think you would get many ticket buyers with a 15" screen.

Or even a 15-foot one, really. [Big Grin]

I think the studios are hoping to do away with dollar houses. The way they keep shortening the video window it's really hard for a dollar house these days.

If projection gets cheap enough, I could see little theaters coming back again... some smart entrepreneurs could probably snag up the closed small-towners on the cheap, put in low-cost projection and make a few bucks. Anything's possible I guess.

Posted by Alan Gouger (Member # 543) on 01-21-2013, 06:01 PM:

Laser will have its positives and negatives. There must be a reason after all the marketing from several promising manufactures over the years we still do not see a single laser projector in production. Speckle still plagues the technology. Red nor anyone else has solved the issue. While laser will yield benefits over lamp driven displays expect some to pass depending on your tolerance. I predict we are still two years out. There is always the possibility there will be something else like paper thin OLED screens you roll out and place on the wall before laser matures.
Here is something interesting. They keep getting bigger and thinner!

http://www.saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentid=20130122150116

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 01-21-2013, 06:36 PM:

It also seems that RED so far has opted to NOT be DCI compliant as far as security goes. This also for their RedRay player. If they don't support the DCI KDM and link encryption or secure harness scheme, there will be no public cinema business model, however brilliant the projector will be. No mainstream content before BluRay/DVD release - it will stay a home video or post production projector. Wether their Indy 4k distribution network will have success into the small/arthouse/independent cinema area, remains to be seen. I doubt it. 'Cinema' want's and needs 'the big boys' and a certain level of 'event' approach attached to it.

- Carsten

Posted by Andrew Thomas (Member # 7000) on 01-21-2013, 07:02 PM:

I've e-mailed Jarred Land about the DCI issue and they aren't "opting" not to go the DCI route according to him. They indeed want to get DCI certification but realize that it is all politics and certain folks don't want to see them do to cinema projector pricing what they did to cinema camera pricing.

That being said, he also responded to my question about DCI DCP handling of the Crimson (Cinema) projector in the RedRay announcement thread with something vague about "DCI passthrough" or something like that which made no sense to me.

Posted by Frank B. McLaughlin (Member # 6683) on 01-22-2013, 05:25 AM:

Things are moving along much faster than you think: http://www.variety.com/article/VR1118048116/

Posted by Pietro Clarici (Member # 4937) on 01-22-2013, 05:58 AM:

Yes, they said they will support "DCI-compliant passthrough from old players".

In my opinion, this simply means Crimson will have encrypted dual HD-SDI inputs: no 4K, no HFR, no 12-bit 3D. Basically, the capabilities of a Series 1 projector when it comes to DCI content.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 01-22-2013, 03:15 PM:

quote: Andrew Thomas
I've e-mailed Jarred Land about the DCI issue and they aren't "opting" not to go the DCI route according to him.

As they now release projector and player without DCI compliance and technical options to achieve compliance, they quite obviously DID opt to not go the DCI route.

An alternative HD-SDI input or converter hookup is not making this thing DCI compliant.

- Carsten

Posted by Andrew Thomas (Member # 7000) on 01-23-2013, 12:28 AM:

The projector isn't out and we have no specs on Crimson other than a very broad "lasers" and "it's for cinema screens". The problem is that you don't just get to decide your projector/server is DCI compliant. You have to build it to certain specs AND have it actually be certified.

What he specifically said in the e-mail is this "aiming for DCI but since we need approval that is out of our control I can't say for sure.". Their intention is DCI compatibility, but the DCI issue is more than specs, it's political.

As I said before, Red now has a track record of price disruption on the camera side of the business. You think the Sony/NEC/Barco/Christie/TI are particularly interested in Red doing the same thing to digital cinema projectors? The DCI has built a system of planned obsolesce that will force theaters into a repeated cycle of replacing equipment for arbitrary reasons.

Red will just release an upgrade [Razz]