Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: who has used the new BARCO dp2k-10sx

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Posted by Christopher Mondt (Member # 719) on 01-24-2013, 06:05 PM:

Has anyone used the small BARCO dp2k-10sx?
We are planning to install some of these machines but never heard any reviews.

How is the internal server working?

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 01-24-2013, 06:53 PM:

I haven't heard of ANY installation of the new S2k machines yet. Anyone?

- Carsten

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 01-24-2013, 07:09 PM:

First installation for me is scheduled for next week, a DP2K-10s with Doremi IMB and separate Doremi ShowVault server. The 10sx should be available (this model has the integrated server) in a few weeks.
I haven't seen one of the Christie Solaria integrated server/projectors yet.

Posted by Alan Gouger (Member # 543) on 01-24-2013, 10:48 PM:

Ive spent some time with the NEC NC900 with the Doremi IMB and separate Doremi ShowVault server. It is not a bad little machine but no lens memory. The projectors software supports LMS but the lens does not.
Will the Barco and Christie have lens memory? I would think NEC will have to address this sooner or later.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 01-25-2013, 03:56 AM:

If I remember correctly Christie have two versions, one is the "enhanced" one with lens control - Solaria One + .

What do you guy think of the non-xenon lamp used in D-Cinema projectors? NEC and SONY. I do believe that those lamps do not belong to a professional an colour critical world. I have experience with consumer projectors and the colours drift of the light is awful over the life of the machine.
The projector can easily compensate for it with an integrated colour meter, but then what happens to light output?
And speaking of SONY, they have 6 lamps inside, each pointing to a different area of the chips. How are they going to compensate for - say - one brand new lamp at 7500K and 500 lm and the one sitting next to it with 1000hrs on it outputting 4500K and 250 lm? I think it's simply wrong.

Posted by Mike Connell (Member # 7432) on 01-25-2013, 05:30 AM:

I'm fascinated by this thread as the 10sx is what I am currently looking at installing in my startup single screen cinema. From what I've read, it ticks all the boxes and more for me, so updates from those who have experience would be greatly appreciated!

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-25-2013, 06:46 AM:

These projectors are strippers by design. The lenses are not motorized on the notion that most cinemas have fixed width screens so one merely crops scope (or scales it using the "resize" feature of the ICP and possibly shifts the image down on the imager.

Christie's Solaria 1+ does have motorized lenses but at a notable increase in cost (thousands). The thought is, why charge that extra money for those theatres that don't need/want motorized lenses?

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 01-25-2013, 06:55 AM:

The Sony received DCI compliance in december, no need to question it's out of the box colour rendering. 6*450W UHP is a lot of light to start with a DCI whitepoint compensation.

The Sonys have a light box that mixes the light from all 6 lamps, no segmentation (that would be an awful idea indeed).

Of course it still remains to be seen how they deal with the lamp fading. I heard from a technician that the Sony has software provisions for lamp ageing, but how it deals with a potential mix of new and old lamps, I have no idea. I guess lamp mixing is not what they actually have in mind.

BTW - from the NC900C datasheet:

'Zoom / Focus: Motorized; Motorized Shift: Horizontal/Vertical Motorized Other: Dowser (light shutter); Range of shift is dependent on lens Primary Lenses: NP-9LS14Z: 1.36-1.63:1; NP-9LS16Z: 1.63-2.03:1; NP-9LS20Z: 2.03-2.72:1; NP-9LS27Z: 2.72-4.07:1; NP-9LS40Z: 4.07-6.34:1'

- Carsten

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 01-25-2013, 10:18 AM:

Carsten,

The 6 lamps are aimed at different parts of the light path, I find difficult for any optical element to perfectly mix the light in such a short distance. That said I don't mean that the if a lamp fails you have a dark spot on the screen, but I would imagine that the uniformity of the light wouldn't be on top.

You WILL have mixed lamp in a projector: they won't fail all together and some WILL fail sooner.
Another point: unless you decided to replace your lamps all together, your projector won't have the maximum light output anymore.

Posted by Ronda Fitzsimmons (Member # 1418) on 01-25-2013, 02:37 PM:

Just installing the first six Christie Solaria One units in my move-over theatre south of Lancaster - (Kendig Square Movies 6). I like it, and I LOVE that we used the old projector bases. I'll try to upload a pic. Integrated IMB/server and NAS (They provided a Netgear 4T ReadyNAS 2100 I think it was.) Our picture and sound are much improved, especially over the poor quality prints we've been getting lately. 5.1 sound though Dolby CP750.

Haven't worked out automation yet. Anyone working with the jnior? Do I need to be a programmer to make it work, or is it pretty easy?

Sorry about the poor quality pic. Camera phone, and too much coffee...

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 01-25-2013, 02:59 PM:

you definitely need to get used to some quirks of it, then it's great!

Posted by Alan Gouger (Member # 543) on 01-25-2013, 03:08 PM:

A little more research into the NEC they are planning to add Lens Memory in Feb.

Ronda looks like a perfect fit between the Christie and the ole film base [Smile]

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-25-2013, 08:06 PM:

Hmm...I know of a theatre that has ordered the Barco (with the built-in server). Their screen is fixed-width for 1.66:1 through scope, and which gets taller for 1.37:1. If they don't get the motorized lens unit, what happens for the narrower formats?

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 01-25-2013, 08:21 PM:

The documentation I have on the Barco 10s has only motorized lenses listed. barco has non-motorized lenses available for the other D-Cinema projectors but I've never actually seen one in use. Lens shift is always motorized on Barco D-Cinema projectors, it's in the lens mount. Christie has historically made motorized lenses (including lens shift) an option (with some exceptions). I don't know about NEC.

Posted by Yinghong Wu (Member # 6908) on 01-25-2013, 11:17 PM:

The DP2K-10Sx,a complete media server is built into the projector.The term"media server"covers the media block,the SMS and the storage device.In other word,this system is a self-contained all-inclusive package,just as are Sony's 4k system.---FIAF DIGITAL PROJECTION GUIDE---BY TORKELL SAETERVADET [Smile]

Posted by Bajsic Bojan (Member # 4928) on 01-26-2013, 01:31 AM:

quote: Scott Norwood
Hmm...I know of a theatre that has ordered the Barco (with the built-in server). Their screen is fixed-width for 1.66:1 through scope, and which gets taller for 1.37:1. If they don't get the motorized lens unit, what happens for the narrower formats?

As was mentioned previously in the thread, if its a non-motorized lens, they will probably crop 50 px of the scope image (basically playing everything with the 'flat setting').

They might have trouble when trying to get the most picture out of a 1.66 or 1.37 DCP without a decent preset.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-26-2013, 06:50 AM:

I think it is only Christie that has the non-motorized lens system (Solaria 1). For those that want the motorized lens on the low-cost, there is the Solaria 1+. NEC and Barco, to the best of my knowledge have motorized lenses.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 01-26-2013, 08:46 AM:

If you don't have a motorized lens it does not mean that you're going to be lazy and show everything with the same setting!
Why not setting the lens for the main feature and scale trailers and adverts? That does not require lots of work!

Posted by Alan Gouger (Member # 543) on 01-26-2013, 09:06 AM:

quote:
Why not setting the lens for the main feature and scale trailers and adverts? That does not require lots of work!

Or use an anamorphic lens!

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-26-2013, 10:25 AM:

Anamorphic lens and low-cost do not go together.

I'm sure the thought behind the fixed lens is for those with fixed width screens. As such, minimal lens movement would have been needed anyway. Odds are, these theatres would merely crop scope width slightly anyway.

Posted by Ronda Fitzsimmons (Member # 1418) on 01-28-2013, 05:42 PM:

We aren't using an anamorphic or cropping. The lens is a zoom lens. We adjust the zoom for scope or flat presentation.

Posted by Lindsay Morris (Member # 1430) on 01-29-2013, 06:27 AM:

Ronda,

Most interested in how you get on with these new Christie Solaria units as I am thinking that one would also suit my needs and budget. So far NONE installed in OZ that I can have a look at.

Most likely I would have to go with a motorised lens which ups the costs a bit but with a fixed height screen outdoors not much else I can do I think..33 foot wide steel construction.
Tried to PM you re the Christies but the system spat it out twice but will give it a shot again later. [Smile]

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 01-29-2013, 11:32 AM:

Outdoors? I can't imagine that the little Christie projector would illuminate a 33' outdoor screen where you're competing with the stars, the moon, and passing traffic.

Posted by Lindsay Morris (Member # 1430) on 01-29-2013, 05:38 PM:

Moon at times is an issue but frequently screened by trees on that side which at times produces interesting patterns on screen but not objectionable.
Stars not a problem at all same as passing traffic as there is NONE a nice neat location.
Currently run a Century CC with a Lumex lamp running 65A and light is VG as screen is VERY white and solid....NO Perfs. Paint is a flat membrane paint intended for heat reduction on roofs and walls and being a membrane paint is flexible so sheet joins do not crack open.
The Solaria One + is the suggested unit which has more light than the smaller unit I am told.
Plenty of time left for us..just looking around. [Smile]

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 01-30-2013, 05:23 AM:

Well, the Solaria One is certainly not a DriveIn machine - but if you have a nice, dark open air location, 8.000-10.000 lumens is enough for a nice bright image.

I have done open-air on similiar screen size with less light. It's the location that make it work or not.

With 35mm vanishing, these cheaper S2k machines are the only economic option for open-air presentations.

Oops - did I mention 'economic' and 'open-air' in one sentence?

- Carsten

Posted by Bajsic Bojan (Member # 4928) on 01-30-2013, 02:48 PM:

For your screen, assuming its 33x18ft, gain at about 1.0, the 8000lm machine would be a nice fit. Might want a bit more, but not too critical.

The real problem with outside locations is the 'darkness'. If its full moon, your screen wont be black. In that case, it doesnt matter if your projector is 8.000 lm or 30.000 lm. There wont be any blacks. Sure the 30.000 model will get some color across that the 8.000 would not, but still, unless you have a special light source that casts black, it won't be nice [Big Grin]

If you are unsure, i would advise to rent for a one screening, a 10.000lm video projector, make sure it has all the lamps (or ideally one xenon) in good working order. And look at the image. If it's ok, fine, take the christie/barco. If not...

Posted by Fred L West (Member # 6038) on 03-01-2013, 01:09 PM:

Wondering if anyone actually has a Barco DP2K-10S installed? We have one ordered but can't seem to get info when it may be available. Would rather have a Barco but the Christie is at least available and our clients are getting restless.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 03-01-2013, 02:24 PM:

As far as I know, the projector is available, but not yet the Doremi OEM IMB. A lot of early S2k installations take place with temporary ShowVault/IMB combos instead of the IMS1000 (to be later exchanged).

Shouldn't take long, though, the Barco just had it's official release in germany.

- Carsten

Posted by Michael Putlack (Member # 6523) on 03-02-2013, 09:50 AM:

We're expecting our DP2k-10SXs to be delivered on the 11th. When our installer is going to make it here is another story... :/

Posted by Fred L West (Member # 6038) on 03-05-2013, 03:29 PM:

Just received word that our Barco DP2K-10S is in the states and should be delivered any day. The plan is to upgrade to a CP 750 with Dolby 7.1 sound and Dolby 3D.

Posted by Bajsic Bojan (Member # 4928) on 03-05-2013, 04:30 PM:

how big is your screen? gain?

dolby 3d with an s2k is something people seem to want to do, but... I think a lot of people would be interested to know how this works out (especially the ftL number).

Posted by Tom Bert (Member # 5719) on 03-07-2013, 05:15 AM:

Some general feedback:
- Barco's DP2K-10Sx has 'normal' fully motorised lenses (as you know from our other DC models). NEC has motorisation but no memory; Solaria One has no motorisations
- first units have been installed and feedback is very positive. Do note that these are being shipped with IMB/Showvault and not yet with IMS

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 03-07-2013, 08:20 AM:

quote:
NEC has motorisation but no memory;

That's a temporary firmware flaw, right? What sense would it make to have motorization without lens memory in a cinema environment?

quote: Tom Bert
Solaria One has no motorisations

The Solaria One+ model does have motorization (at an increased price, of course).

Based on the quotes I have seen so far, the price difference between the three is smaller than I expected, and the Barco would be the clear winner as far as features/built/price goes.

- Carsten

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 03-07-2013, 10:22 AM:

I thought motorization was required by the DCI specs. Or am I wrong?

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 03-07-2013, 05:02 PM:

No, ahm, YES - DCI demands single lens or unattended format change.

Basically, on an unmasked screen or with vertical masking, you could even use a fixed lens, no zoom, no motors for nothing. One mechanical adjustment during installation would be enough.

The basic Solaria One follows that approach with an unmotorized lens (but of course, a zoom lens ;-).

- Carsten

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-07-2013, 06:34 PM:

Except that "no-masking" is against DCI specifications too!

And even if you have a fixed 1.85 screen...what do you do with Scope? Do you crop the sides or do you "scale" the image down using the "screen presentation" scaler built into the ICP? It is a lose/lose situation.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 03-07-2013, 07:03 PM:

quote:
Except that "no-masking" is against DCI specifications too!

Is it?

On an unmasked screen, you set the lens to project 2048pix full width and show flat a little bit smaller. That way at least scope get's a wider presentation as it should be ;-)

- Carsten

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-07-2013, 09:17 PM:

quote:
8.3.3.3.
Screen Characteristics
The screen is required to be non-specular and equally reflective over the entire visible spectrum. The screen is required to have variable black masking, adjustable to tightly frame the projected image. This is required to minimally include 1.85:1 or 2.39:1 image formats. Masking for other formats is optional.

Yep...a requirement.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 03-08-2013, 04:19 AM:

That passage is not in the current spec anymore - but instead

'The SMPTE published recommended practice "SMPTE RP 431-2: D-Cinema Quality - Reference Projector and Environment" shall be utilized and shall be normative in its entirety for this specification.'

And I guess masking is in SMPTE RP 431-2

Hmm, if DCI compliance is mandatory for installations under VPF deals, why doesn't that include screen characteristics as per DCI spec?

That would mean, all screens under VPF would need to have maskable screens? ;-)

- Carsten

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-08-2013, 05:49 AM:

If you insist:

quote:
6.2 Screen Characteristics

The screen shall reflect energy uniformly across all angles, such that the color of the reflected light does not change with viewing angle. If the design of the room requires the placement of speakers behind the screen, it may be necessary to use perforations; however, care should be taken to ensure that the perforation structure does not beat against (alias with) the projector’s display structure.

The screen shall have adjustable black masking that can be adjusted to tightly frame the projected image, for both 1.85:1 and 2.39:1 image formats.

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 09-24-2013, 05:21 AM:

Barco DP2K-10S - quote Barcos homepage:

Perfect image ratio in every setup thanks to full range of motorized lenses

I'm going to stick for this one with a Dolby DSS200 for my screen two.

Greetings from Denmark

Per