This is topic Which film file to upload with multiple KDMs in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Ross McLaughlin (Member # 6774) on 03-10-2013, 02:58 PM:
 
Hi,

I've been having an issue here recently with management wanting to keep several films (mainly kids ones) on the server. Great, except we're running low of space constantly.

The main issue I'm having with this is where a film turns up with multiple files to upload for one feature, normally for VFs.

However, several times recently I've had this case, but been sent a KDM for both the VF and the OV. Which should I be running? Because if I can get away with just the OV, then that's what I'm doing - I just don't know the difference between the two. If I'm being sent KDMs for both, they can't be much different?

The current one is with Incredible Burt Wonderstone. I haven't received the drive yet, but have KDMs for the following:

BURT-WONDERSTN_FTR_S_EN-XX_US-NR_51_2K_WR_20130212_MPI_OV
BURT-WONDERSTN_FTR_S_EN-XX_UK-15_51-EN_2K_WR_20130305_TEU_VF

Would I be correct in guessing the VF file with 51-EN means some kind of audio description track, so I don't need that version as we don't do any extras like that with our screenings?

Many thanks
Ross
 

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Posted by Gavin Lewarne (Member # 5397) on 03-10-2013, 03:35 PM:
 
Hi ross....welcome to my world (same crap to work out all the time)!

*usually* the OV is the "Original Version" and that would be your usual choice if you dont play visual / hearing impaired versions.

But, sometimes the VF versions also dont contain any audio/visual description and its kinda a guessing game. One distributor we deal with frequently goes the extra mile of confusion and issue KDMS for BLAHBLAH_FTR_S_blahblah_BBFC_VF & BLAHBLAH_FTR_S_blahblah_HOH_VF, where their "BBFC_VF" is actually the "normal" version.

A while ago we had lots of fun with the Hobbit, being issues KDMs for everything on the drive, and we kinda had to narrow it down.

If i get a drive way in advance, i will either ingest everything in prep for whatever KDM comes our way (then delete what is not necessary), or I will clone the drive onto a spare CRU i have if server space is tight - at least that way I will have the files needed for whatever KDM i eventually get.

But usually, its just a guessing game and entirely depends on what the distributors decide to call their files even if it against spec
 

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Posted by Amanda Mundin (Member # 3386) on 03-10-2013, 04:11 PM:
 
Usually the OV version is the only version that holds the full film, so you always need that, then most VF versions just add something to OV version to create another version. If you try loading a VF version and stand and watch while you load they will usually load quickly as there is very little data in these files, so you won't be saving much space by not ingesting them.
You get VF versions for adding audio description, these files will usually say
TITLE_FTR_S_EN-EN , this means Name of Film_Feature_Scope_English Sound-English Subtitles.
When they say TITLE_FTR_S_EN-XX , this means English Sound-No Subtitles.
You also get VF versions for adding 7.1 sound, which may take a little longer to load as I assume they're loading just the 4 surround channels to add to the OV version.
 

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Posted by Gavin Lewarne (Member # 5397) on 03-10-2013, 04:34 PM:
 
amanda, not sure about other brand servers, but i did a little experimenting recently on our DSS200 (running 4.5.4.1)

On the delivery sheet for a film (dont remember which) it stated that i needed to load the OV version first, then the VF, which is what I needed.

I wondered what would happen if i just ingested the VF, and it worked - it appeared to ingest the content from the OV version and whatever changed in the VF, leaving me with one 240gb VF file that worked without issues.

I have tried this on several other films as well now, it always seem to copy accross just whats needed from any of the existing files on the drive without creating any extra OV / VF / Whatever entries.

Like I said, dont know about other servers but the dolby seems fairly idiot-proof
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 03-10-2013, 05:06 PM:
 
How hard would it be for the studio, distributor or whoever to include a text file on the hard drive with a plain language, human readable description of all the files on the drive?

Format that text file correctly, such as a CSV.txt file and the motivated software developers who program servers could write an extension that would read those text files automatically and display human readable descriptions on the server's readout.

Almost trivial, I'd think!
 

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Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 03-10-2013, 05:30 PM:
 
The text file is an interesting idea. How about making it html with links to the files, then you click to ingest them. Or there could be something like an m3u file that the html link points to. It would contain pointers to all the files you need for a particular version. I think someone else previously mentioned the possibility of some sort of auditorium based filters so you're only shown files that are appropriate for that auditorium. Then there's the proposal for more helpful meta data here . This proposal seems to be moving slowly. I think there's a lack of a proponent to push it forward.

Harold
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-10-2013, 05:40 PM:
 
Good ideas there. I said in another thread that the whole digital cinema software thing seems to have been developed by engineers and then rushed to market before being filtered through the Department of User Friendliness.

Oh well, it gives us "film" people something complicated to deal with that would confuse the general public, which is akin to what we had before! So we shouldn't complain I guess.
 

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Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 03-10-2013, 06:22 PM:
 
Aa mentioned a couple of times before, ISDCF is working on it already:

http://isdcf.com/papers/ISDCF-Doc6-Composition-Metadata-Guidelines.pdf

- Carsten
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 03-10-2013, 07:01 PM:
 
The metadata idea is good but that takes intelligent people to implement. The text file is trivial, in comparison.

Any idiot can type a text file. Any idiot who can't understand what a text file is can type the data into a Microsoft Word spreadsheet and output to CSV.

I can teach monkies to do that but that's probably too hard for anybody in Hollywood to figure out!

Metadata is great! Lovely! Happy-happy!
Problem is, it has to be implemented. Somebody has to rewrite software, create new procedures and reformat a lot of data in order to make it work. Then all this new information and updates has to be pushed down the line. Most people in Hollywood are too busy with their dicks in their hands to bother thinking about something like this.

However, a text file is something that can be added in at any time. It takes no extra resources other than getting some intern to type stuff and e-mail it to somebody else.

Programming this in software should be easy. Most cinema servers run Linux. Right? How hard would it be to write a system extension or software plug-in to handle parsing the data?

Further, if somebody doesn't have the system extensions installed in their server, they can still access the data manually. They could print it out and stick it on the wall if they wanted to. You can't do that with metadata that's intrinsic to the file.

Properly implemented, this fix could be out in the field in less than a year.
 

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Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 03-10-2013, 07:07 PM:
 
I always upload all the files and then delete what I don't need.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-10-2013, 08:48 PM:
 
Yes, but that doesn't always work either -- I used to ingest everything and then just delete whatever we didn't have keys for, but sometimes lately we get keys for more than one version. OCAP and no-cap for instance. One time we got four keys....2-D and 3-D versions, both with and without captions.

There's just no way out of studying those file names I guess!
 

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Posted by Edward Havens (Member # 4715) on 03-11-2013, 06:54 AM:
 
With one recent movie, we received KDMs for a wide variety of options: 5.1, 7.1, 2D, 4.5fL 3D, 7fL 3D, Closed Captioned, Open Captioned, IMAX... but I didn't worry. I knew which keys I needed and when I would need them. The IMAX KDM would be loaded on to one flash drive and uploaded when I got to that projector. The 5.1 2D and 5.1 7fL 3D keys would be loaded on to a separate flash drive and loaded to my LMS when I got there. The 4.5fL 3D keys would sit in my Projection\KDM\2013\March\030113 folder for the following weeks, when I moved said 3D title out of my 7fL-approved houses. The 7.1 and Open Captioned keys were deleted, since I don't do either at my theatre.

It took me a couple weeks when I got my first digital projector, but I eventually got the hang of the Digital Cinema Naming Conventions. I got it much quicker once I printed out all of the Appendixes, threw them in a binder and read them cover to cover and was able to quickly reference them if a question popped up. Three and a half years later, I still reference the DCNC binder from time to time, to look up something I hadn't noticed before or just to refresh myself.
 

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Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 03-11-2013, 10:36 AM:
 
I usually delete what I don't need after a Q.C. (Quality Check).

That way Open Captions and the varying sound formats we don't need get taken off.
 

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Posted by Michael Brown (Member # 890) on 03-12-2013, 03:33 PM:
 

quote: Ross McLaughlin

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BURT-WONDERSTN_FTR_S_EN-XX_US-NR_51_2K_WR_20130212_MPI_OV
BURT-WONDERSTN_FTR_S_EN-XX_UK-15_51-EN_2K_WR_20130305_TEU_VF

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