Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: 3D with barco dp2k 10s

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Posted by Jure Maticic (Member # 7197) on 04-11-2013, 02:44 AM:

Hi everyone,

I'm pretty certain many of you have had experience with the Barco dp2k 10s by now. I anyone running 3D on this projector? What are the results .... is there enough light and on what size screen?

Jure

Posted by Marin Zorica (Member # 1716) on 04-18-2013, 02:06 PM:

Sure there is enought light if the screen is small up to 6m....and depending on 3D system used.

Posted by Fred L West (Member # 6038) on 04-22-2013, 05:27 PM:

We just installed our new Barco dp2k 10s with Dolby 3D along with a new 750 processor. The system and sound are all great, everything meets spec on our 20' screen. Our customers are raving about the picture and sound, couldn't be happier.

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 04-22-2013, 11:07 PM:

Could you let us know screen type, bulb size and light level in 2D and 3D?

I have someone in mind for one of these.

Posted by Peter Hall (Member # 695) on 04-23-2013, 07:19 AM:

Hi Sam

We did some light tests last week, matt white screen for a site with a 10m scope picture and worries about light for 3D. Running 2D, new 2k lamp, we got 23FL ! Turning the current right down to 50A (the machine telling us "the lamp is off", which is wasnt !) we still got 14FL. Zooming up to a pretend 15m screen, 75A gave 15FL. Curious to see the other small chip machines' results...

Posted by Jon Augustyn (Member # 7644) on 07-27-2013, 02:37 AM:

Lots of questions...

Is the Dolby 3D wheel inside the projector an option on this model?

Does Dolby 3D work with alternative content (Bluray 3D)?

When is the real/final IMS due in the 10sx?

Is it any more difficult to get good on screen DMD convergence because of the smaller chip size? Is it normal to converge the DMDs as part of a standard installation?

Is the lower spec sequential contrast ratio (1850) noticeably inferior to the higher spec 2000:1 on the larger boxes? Does the ansi/intrascene contrast ratio also suffer on the compact projectors?

Does anyone know the BTU rating? I see it listed in the specs for the larger boxes, but not for this one.

Does Barco have controls to compensate for bulb aging on this model?

How realistic is the 9,000 lumen rating? Is that calibrated lumens?

As an aside, I thought DCI required 2,000:1 minimum sequential contrast ratio from a projector for compliance, no?

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 07-27-2013, 04:52 AM:

Yes, the 3D wheel is inside the projector as the other models. It should work with alternative 3D IF you have an external 3D box like the one sold by RealD.
Never tried the convergence on a S model, but with the extenders I'm sure it's as easy as any other models. Because it's so easy, I usually check the convergence on Barcos at the end of the installation and amend it if it's off.
I don't think the slightly lower contrast is an issue here. Mostly the contrast is reduced by the room itself. Unless your auditorium is a pitch black room, you will never measure the published contrast unless you point your colour meter to the projector itself. Any slightly reflective surface in the room will decrease your ANSI contrast.
Yes, all BARCO do have CLO to compensate for lamp aging.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 07-27-2013, 08:46 PM:

Yep. DLPs do not have an overwhelming sequential contrast, but the difference between 1850 and 2000 is not visible.

Their ANSI contrast is usually top notch, also for the S2k models.

I also wondered about DCIs 1:2000 requirement and S2k compliance. I guess, they are taking that not too serious ;-)

- Carsten

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 07-28-2013, 03:57 AM:

Just for fun, try and measure the sequential contrast in an average room, and you'll have a laugh. You'll laugh even harder if you try to measure the ANSI!

If you think that in the UK most of the cinemas keep their house lights on during the show, well, you don't really need to worry about contrast ratio!

Posted by Antti Nayha (Member # 4980) on 07-29-2013, 10:55 AM:

I can confirm that adjusting the convergence on a 10S is indeed just as easy as in the other models.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 07-29-2013, 02:36 PM:

So what is the maximum scope width that these units will light up and still meet DCI lumen specs? We have a 40ft screen & would sure like to get away with a less expensive, all-in one box.

And they will do 3D? I thought the smaller Barcos and Christie minis were 2D only. Two of the cinemas I work are non-theatrical. I am not sure we would ever be able to afford a RealD 3D system since my understanding is that they have a rental agreement requiring you to pay an annual fee, yes? For the few times we would need to run an older 3D title, it would only be for a few days run over a weekend, never a full weekly engagement for as for first run. Are any of the 3D systems available for outright purchase where you buy it and you own it, or do all of them require some sort of recurring license scheme?

Posted by Antti Nayha (Member # 4980) on 07-30-2013, 04:13 AM:

quote:
We did some light tests last week, matt white screen for a site with a 10m scope picture and worries about light for 3D. Running 2D, new 2k lamp, we got 23FL !

Peter: accounting for bulb aging, that's just enough for 2D for you then.

With Dolby 3D and your current screen, though, you'd need about 45 foot-lamberts in 2D to reach 4.5 fL in 3D... And they're already pushing for 7 fL! For any 3D system to be bright enough, you'd need to install a high-gain screen, which would mean severe hotspotting problems (particularly bad if your screen is not curved).

Frank: you'd probably be able to reach 14 fL - or close - in 2D for the whole life of the bulb, if your screen gain is at least 1.4. I'd forget about 3D, though. You'd need a silver screen (which would screw up your 2D image as well) and RealD XL (which has problems of its own).

Dolby 3D and various active systems such as XpanD or Volfoni are simply sold to exhibitors with no license fees, but there's no way past the fact that 9000 lumens won't get you far, no matter which 3D system you choose.

Bottom line: These are not really 3D machines, unless we're talking about small screening rooms.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 07-30-2013, 05:27 AM:

quote:
We did some light tests last week, matt white screen for a site with a 10m scope picture and worries about light for 3D. Running 2D, new 2k lamp, we got 23FL !

Sorry...I've got to cry BS on this one. The 10S is a 9000 lumen MAX projector. a 10m wide MATTE white (gain 1.0 or, more likely .9) is going to top out at maybe 16fL and that is without color correction, allowing for port glass loss or...most importantly, any loss in lamp aging. Who measured this screen to be matte-white? What meter were you using? When was it last calibrated? Where you measuring with a full white screen or was it masked down so as to only expose the 2-degree area that your meter should be measuring?

Anyone specifying this projector beyond an 8.8m (29-feet) screen is doing a disservice. Even then, it is going to run hard and by the end of the lamp life, the light output will be significantly below specified output. It is the math of it all. Furthermore, when one runs a lamp in the upper-end of its range, the light output falls MUCH more dramatically (especially true for Osram, by the way).

While going to a gain screen might be a way to stretch available light, it will cause it to fall out of specification as any gain higher than 1.3 on a flat screen (or even the 1:20 screens) will have too much fall off to the sides.

These are small screen projectors (Christie and NEC included)...they should be used on the smaller screens only or you really are compromising the picture. Remember, the light output specification is after color correction...your meter should be showing .314/.351 while it is showing 14fL. Ideally, you should be running a peak-white test pattern from your SERVER while making this measurement as it accounts for the full signal path of the image.

Posted by Antti Nayha (Member # 4980) on 07-30-2013, 05:45 AM:

quote: Antti Nayha
Frank: you'd probably be able to reach 14 fL - or close - in 2D for the whole life of the bulb, if your screen gain is at least 1.4.

Please disregard that. Being lazy before my morning coffee, I didn't do the actual math - I just extrapolated from Peter's results, which are a bit dubious indeed as pointed out by Steve above. Shame on me.

The gain would have to be considerably higher than 1.4, and I don't recommend such screens either.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 07-30-2013, 12:35 PM:

quote: Steve Guttag
Where you measuring with a full white screen or was it masked down so as to only expose the 2-degree area that your meter should be measuring?

Never thought there was a sensible difference between full screen and a little square, I'll check next time.
What is the difference in your experience?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 07-31-2013, 06:48 AM:

It depends on the meter and its optics. The better meters will have comparatively little difference. On the lower cost meters, the difference can be significant (several 10s of percents...to the point that the reading is worthless). If you measure the screen full-white and then mask it down so only the sensor area is exposed and your reading goes down (and it will)...it is the lower reading that is the more accurate one.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 07-31-2013, 02:53 PM:

Thanks, I will test it next time I'm doing it.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 08-06-2013, 01:00 PM:

Looks like I've got a good one!
The difference with my colour meter is 0.4fL and no difference in xy coordinates. 2.8%

Posted by Tom Bert (Member # 5719) on 08-08-2013, 07:59 AM:

FYI: more information on the 'value' of all those contrast specs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5_1UwySrmQ