This is topic Pros and Cons of buying used Series 1 Projector in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Tony Ratcliff (Member # 1196) on 04-25-2013, 02:47 PM:
What is everyone's opinion on the purchase of a used Series 1 projector to install in a non-VPF theater?
What would be the pros, cons and concerns?
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-25-2013, 03:11 PM:
The quick answer is, don't buy it. Series 1 is out of date. There are used Series 2 projectors available.
You can still use a Series 1, but you run the risk of it becoming non-supported much sooner than with a Series 2. Tell us what brand/model you're considering and you might get more information.
Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 04-25-2013, 03:36 PM:
Well assuming the machine is fully updated, running latest hardware version of everything, I don't think they'd become unusable or unsupported very soon. This is only my opinion.
If the price is similar to an used series 2, don't hesitate and go for a series 2!
Series 1 will also provide less light, mainly because of worn out optics.
Posted by Richard May (Member # 2627) on 04-25-2013, 04:20 PM:
We bought 2 used NEC NC800C projectors a year ago. No issues whatsoever. Not a problem with light output at all. Easily getting 14FL with power at 72%.
Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 04-25-2013, 04:33 PM:
No 3D HFR! ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-25-2013, 05:23 PM:
I'm not as much of a nay-sayer on the Series 1s as others but the point should be well taken...they are closer to being unsupported than series 2s.
Image quality should be identical to a series 2.
A late-model series 1 can be quite good, in fact. I wouldn't shy away from a DP1200-DP2000 from Barco though I wouldn't advise on a DP100 at this point. The CP2000-S and SB are real troupers.
Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 04-26-2013, 02:20 AM:
No warranty availability would come to my mind being used equipment..and the cost of a replacement light engine isn't for the weak heart.
Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 04-26-2013, 09:42 AM:
A series 1 projector should be acceptable but you "get what you pay for". First, if the projector has a TI interface board that's not DCI compatible (it must have Cinelink TLS capability) then you can run into problems with servers - DCI compatible server security software will not work with the projector, and the software can not be reverted to a previous non-DCI version. All new servers are DCI compatible and thus require DCI compatible projectors. The necessary projector upgrade costs somewhere around $1000.00. If you also get the server that was used with the projector you will be OK for now (just don't upgrade the software/firmware to DCI versions!!!) but studios/distributors can "flip the switch" and require DCI compatibilty for all screens whenever they want: any system with incompatible hardware/software will then be dark pending upgrade.
Right now quite a few used S1 projectors are on the market: some sites converting under VPF financing took the opportunity to sell any pre-existing old digital projectors before installing new ones financed under the VPF deal. Expect these to be incompatible.
These S1 projectors were installed to show 3D movies, mostly for Avatar so they've been running since Dec 2009. Many were poorly maintained since a site would only have one or two and the staff were unfamiliar with the service requirements - there were a lot of marketing hype promises made about digital systems and it seems some owners decided nobody had to ever take care of them. I've found such systems with multiple warnings showing on the touchscreen, lamp envelopes black at 200%+ warranty hours, air filters clogged beyond belief, and their coolant depleted and full of clots: the operator (I can't call them projectionists) had no clue what to do about any of these problems.
I've also had the pleasure of re-installing used S1 projectors that were sold "in working order". The installation can go OK or horribly wrong - one projector needed almost everything except the chassis replaced: the light engine was bad, the interface card was bad, the projector controller was bad, and the lamp PS was bad.
Bon Chance!
Posted by Tony Ratcliff (Member # 1196) on 04-26-2013, 03:43 PM:
Thanks for the quick reply guys.
The ones I am looking at are Barco DP1200.
What exactly should be looked at that indicate that it is up to date, board-wise, etc.
Also, are these machines HDCP compliant? We do a lot of classics using Blu-ray and DVD.
Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 04-26-2013, 03:52 PM:
The DP1200 is a nice machine, and it does not have coolant inside, something less to look after!
Make sure your TI board is Type 5 (Gore and HDCP).
Have the projector tested by someone that knows what is doing, make sure that the optics inside are in good conditions, run full chip test patterns to make sure everything is ok. Then run the machine with the lamp at maximum for 1h displaying a black pattern to make sure all is fine.
Finally make sure all the software is up to date.
Someone else may give you more details regarding hardware versions which I am not aware of.
Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 04-26-2013, 06:24 PM:
It's not dead simple to tell what interface board they have. If you open the card cage you can tell if it's an early one, you won't see one of the cards enclosed/covered in a solid black block. If you do see that you have a newer version but it might not be a DHCP version. I recommend NOT removing a black block "Gore Board" card to look for a version number: I don't think it's on there and you can disable the card very easily by mishandling the card - the outside is covered with sensing material to detect tampering. You will need the Dallas key to reauthorize the projector after looking in the card cage.
I believe you can use the TI DLP cinema control program to read the interface card version. You can download this from the Barco technical website, you have to apply for a login.
Posted by Andrew Thomas (Member # 7000) on 04-26-2013, 07:14 PM:
I think you can get an idea of what will keep you safe for the next 6-8 years by looking at what was required to get a previously installed series 1 system approved for VPF programs. GORE board is probably an essential update if the projector does not already have it.
Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 04-27-2013, 04:27 AM:
The interface type is shown on the communicator, if you click on Diagnostic - Actual - Detailed status.
The type of the board should be listed under Interface Board Type
Posted by Justin West (Member # 920) on 05-07-2013, 11:57 AM:
I have a friend whose series 1 projector died. It reboots to green tail lights (Barco) but there is no power to the card cage that Dave references (LEDs are not lit) thus no error codes are listed on the communicator screen. He has not removed cage or boards inside the cage (including gore board) but power supply board outside it has a popped fuse...and he can remove the ps board. No back light on any of the function keys, he is really hesitant to pull cards out of cage for risk if ruining or deactivating them. He is also hesitant to pull the entire cage. He could pull the plug to that cage, then replace the fuse on the power supply board, reinsert ps board, then power up just to see if the short might be somewhere else besides with a board in the cage...any other ideas? Thanks! ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 08-07-2014, 07:14 PM:
It has been 457 days since the last post.
Posted by Tony Ratcliff (Member # 1196) on 08-07-2014, 07:14 PM:
Revisiting an old topic here, but I have the opportunity to purchase a NEC NC1600C.
What is everyone's thoughts in this? Good idea? Bad idea?
Pitfalls to look for?
Thanks!
Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 08-07-2014, 08:29 PM:
As long as it otherwise specs out for your situation, the main question would be how long NEC intends to continue providing parts and software updates.
Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 08-08-2014, 05:04 AM:
Check wether it has the GORE board and wether it supports full panel triple flashing, if you're interested in doing 3D with it.
- Carsten
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-08-2014, 10:56 AM:
I don't have an issue with older Series 1's. The only down side is that on those projectors you really don't know when they will pull parts support for them. Those NEC's are very reliable so in all likelihood you won't have much trouble with it. You might want to see if the seller has any service history on it before buying and use that to help decide to buy or not. We bought a number of Series 1 Barco's from a Theater chain in CA and they had the full service history in each projector and server. And that service record was quite extensive on those projectors over the 3 to 4 years they were installed. Interestingly, they were all replaced by Series 2 NEC's.
Mark
Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 08-08-2014, 11:18 AM:
Make sure you get the remote control. You need it.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-08-2014, 02:20 PM:
For the NEC you don't need the remote just log in with the S1 software if you don't know the IP use the RS232 interface
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 08-08-2014, 04:53 PM:
Thus far, I haven't seen any reason to worry about the GORE board either. Thus far, I haven't found any features that check for it. In not too much time, series 1 projectors are going to start to drop out of use as they fail and parts are not going to be available. Maybe not this year but certainly within the next couple. The NC1600 was towards the end of the series 1 so it is likely to have a bit more life in it than an earlier series 1.
Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 08-08-2014, 06:04 PM:
When buying a series1 projector which will rather sooner than later be a source of severe spare part pain, I sure would try to get it equipped as current as possible, especially since HDCP capability for DVI usually will come with the Gore board as well (type 4 and 5). And Tony mentioned earlier that they do quite a few DVD/BluRay Screenings. So it's worth checking for that feature. Also TLS (which can turn out to be a real problem with Doremi servers running on recent software if missing).
If this needs to be purchased later at regular prices, it will hardly be a bargain.
- Carsten
Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 08-08-2014, 06:38 PM:
We have an NEC2500S at one of the two theaters in my organization. The only real disadvantage we're facing at the moment is the one I mentioned in the "Dolby server questions" thread: series 1 with a DSS200 server means compatibility issues with later versions of the software, and sticking with an earlier version can cause subtitle problems with SMPTE DCPs. However, if your venue doesn't show foreign-language movies or hearing-impaired subtitles, I can't see this being an issue for you. On the plus side, my understanding is that series 1 means immunity from the Enigma link bug.