Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: creating a projector ethernet network

This is topic creating a projector ethernet network in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Mike Moreno (Member # 4887) on 05-09-2013, 07:37 PM:

does any body know the specifications to follow in order to create the ethernet network to control all the digital projectors in a cinema complex?
also if there are brands of equipment to get.
we are about to start replace all the 35 and i want to be ready or at least know something about.

thanks.

mike moreno

Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 05-09-2013, 07:58 PM:

There are a lot of factors involved in setting up a digital projection network. Depending on the servers you will be using, the network set-up will vary. Other factors such as being connected to a N.O.C. (LAN vs. WAN), whether or not you have V.P.F.s and if your theatre is part of a chain will also dictate the I.P. addresses of your network.

All the above things will need to be addressed before you get to the starting point of setting up a your digital projectors on a network.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 05-09-2013, 09:13 PM:

I suggest you start reading the setup/installation documentation for Doremis and Dolbys servers/TMS. That should give you enough hints how to structure things.

- Carsten

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 05-12-2013, 10:44 AM:

Pretty much regardless of the actual equipment you use, you should install two separate network cables from each server to a single location where the ethernet switches and any TMS/LMS or master console will be located. The "media" network which will be used for transferring content between servers (or from the TMS/LMS if you have one) must be 1000bT (gigabit ethernet) or the transfers will be very slow, and the extra cost is minimal. The "management" or "theatre" network can be 100bT but 1000bT doesn't hurt: this network communicates between the console/TMS/LMS and the servers with control and scheduling data. Normally there's no data sent between servers on this network. If you don't have a TMS/LMS you can possibly skip the media network but I recommend having one.
Beyond that it depends on the equipment. Dolby has a management console program ("Jupiter Client") that lets you control the screen servers from a central computer. Doremi does not have this, but you can VNC into each server and do pretty much the same thing from a central computer. Doremi and Dolby also sell TMS/LMS systems for controlling an entire complex. These master control computers will pull show scheduling data from a compatible POS ticketing system and then the shows just run themselves on time: each week you build the playlists and ingest all content and KDMs at the TMS/LMS and then the system takes care of getting content and playlists to each server in time for scheduled shows. Cinedigm and Christie also have their own TMS/LMS systems for theatres under their VPF programs but I don't know if these systems are available or affordable for non-VPF clients. Each TMS/LMS system has its own peculiarities but they all do the job.

Posted by Ronda Fitzsimmons (Member # 1418) on 05-13-2013, 03:52 PM:

Hi Mike,

We didn't use the TMS/LMS system with our Christie Solaria One's, although it was available at an extra cost. We did set up a media network (using Cat6 and gigabit smart switches) and a separate control network to a basic computer in our box/concession stand. As they are separate networks, we were able to use the same smart switches. At each projector we have a switch, and there's two extra switches requited: One for the control computer, and one for the media network.

I'd be happy to share the network setup we used if it would be useful for you.

Posted by Mohd Ridzuan (Member # 7054) on 11-19-2013, 03:26 AM:

Hi Ronza, can you share with me your network diagram if TMS. I also want to know how we want to link if w e had two seperate projector room to the management office which located on diffrent floor. Are we need to use fiber optic.

Please advice

Br

Ridzuan

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 11-19-2013, 04:37 AM:

You only need fiber if you have to span more than 100m or 325 feet between Ethernet devices (switch to device, switch to switch). NEVER go beyond this with copper, because it won't work (collisions and extremely bad performance if it works at all). If you need to span more than that, you can choose between either single mode or multimode fiber. Multimode fiber runs up to 500m or about 1600ft and singlemode can run up to hundred of miles, but with normal optics up to about 10km/60 miles. The price between multimode and single mode fiber usually doesn't differ very much, but the optics for your switch for multimode fiber are usually cheaper. As an alternative for fiber, you could also run copper and put a switch somewhere halfway.

If possible, I would go for one central switch or switch stack in a central location with UPS and break out from there. Like Dave said, if possible you should use separate links for your management and "media" network and make sure that your media network is capable of handling gigabit connections. Your management network is fine with 100MBit/s, but if you put it on the same gigabit switch, it won't matter too much.

Don't cheap out on the switch either. If possible, go with something reliable and preferably manageable like Cisco or HP ProCurve, not some no-name brand. The higher end switches usually allow you to create Virtual LANs. That way, you can run multiple, separated LANs on the same physical infrastructure.

Posted by Mike Moreno (Member # 4887) on 11-24-2013, 02:05 PM:

thanks guys

[beer]

mike moreno
mexico

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 11-24-2013, 07:34 PM:

A couple other points I would consider.

1. Since you are going to be running 2 ethernet cables from each projector to the central switch, I would recommend running a third so you have a redundant backup. It will be much simpler to do this at install, than to run a new cable later if something fails.

2. If you're able to do so, buy bulk cable, rather than pre-made. Terminate the cable at a tombstone in the projector base, and a tombstone or patch panel at the central switch.

3. Consider purchasing sets of color coded cables so you can use the same color to make the same connection at each projector (example: white for server to projector, yellow for server to switch, green for automation to switch, etc).

4. Include hidden wireless access points which provide coverage to all of your auditoriums. This will make it much easier to use a laptop in the auditorium for configuring screen files. Just make sure the SSID is not broadcast and that you change the default password.

5. Be sure to tie your office computer into the management network. This will enable to access the various devices for configuration and programming schedules.

6. Depending on your equipment and having wireless access, consider purchasing an android table which can be used to access the equipment for each auditorium. This will allow you to do things like adjust sound or trigger automation when doing auditorium checks. You may need to purchase an android VNC client or other specific apps to access some of the devices. Others can be access using the browser.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-25-2013, 06:02 AM:

Justin...so what are you liking for access points?

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 11-25-2013, 07:42 AM:

Although you didn't ask me, I do have a strong opinion about wireless access points. I've burned my hands on a lot of cheap stuff out there.

Although there are lots of similarly featured products out there, if possible, I always use Cisco Aironet APs, usually the stand-alone versions, not the "managed" solution with a central controller (which is only useful for very large deployments, like hotels, conference centers, etc.). They aren't cheap, but very reliable and if you choose the right antennas, you will need less of them to cover the same area.

They also support Power over Ethernet, so you need just a single Cat5e/Cat6 wire. You either plug them in on a PoE switch directly or put a power injector somewhere on the Ethernet line. That way, you can also power them via UPS if you want to.

They also support multiple SSIDs with different forms of authentication and encryption on each SSID. You can also map SSIDs to a certain VLAN. If you want, you can even implement a different Quality of Service profile per SSID. This way, you can run your management network, public hotspot, PoS network, etc. on the same infrastructure and also keep the ether clear of too much overlapping channels.

I would never entirely rely on wireless although, you should always have a hard-wired backup for business critical stuff.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-25-2013, 09:30 AM:

The idea of a wireless access point in a typical cinema (at least from my way of thinking, and I think the way Justin was presenting it) was something more of a convenience for the technician (though I always carry my own and merely move it when I move about a complex...and it leaves when I leave...no security issues). And also so management can quickly adjust volume and such without treking to the booth just to move it "up a point." There are apps now for the CP750 and QSC DCPs.

I would hope people are not setting up their booth network as this massive wifi hotspot. For a reliable system, it should remain pretty traffic free. The occasional volume change isn't going to bog things down any.

Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 11-25-2013, 09:47 AM:

I do not think a movie theatre having a WI-FI "hotspot" for any reason is a good idea. For some businesses, yes, for Movie Theatres - no. We don't want to give another reason for people to be on their phones or tablets while in the auditorium.

Temporary wireless for technical reasons makes sense. For volume, sound checks, and setting lenses etc.

Overall wireless for operational purposes can vary at some locations. Some managers can verify credit cards, or check seating capacities etc. But the important thing, more than hardware, is security. Use the highest encryption possible for your business wireless (and your home for that matter). if it's always on, chances are there is some bored teenager trying to crack it (and the tools are out there). Even if you have the highest encryption possible, turn that signal off when it's not in use.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 11-25-2013, 11:24 AM:

Maybe you do not want to operate an open wifi hotspot, but if you use your theater for more than just movies, like e.g. business presentations, conferences, etc. a closed hotspot is a service you probably should consider. What you should try to avoid is a hodgepodge off different, badly managed cheapo access points all on different networks throughout the building with a mixture of authentication and security protocols. Some of them probably nicely interfering with each other all the time.

It all depends on your needs and the services you want/need to offer. If you only use this network for some convenient access to your management network, you could go for the cheapest off-the-shelf access points, make the SSID hidden and put WPA2-PSK with AES on it and it. And yes, just unplug it if you do not need it, that's the most secure option.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 11-25-2013, 01:07 PM:

Steve: I am using two DLink DIR-615. These can be had for about $20 on eBay. They are very easy to configure and very reliable - it's what I used for my office and home wireless for a number of years.

I actually have several different wireless networks in my theatres. One for the projection network which is hidden and only given to people who specifically need it - which right now is only me. Then I have a theatre management network which connects my office computers, as well as my digital signs. And I have a separate wifi for internet only which I make available to employees and vendors. We do not currently have a public wifi which we make available to customers.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-25-2013, 03:18 PM:

I see... you are using wireless routers as access points, not access points, per say. Do you bridge the WAN/LAN side of things?

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 11-25-2013, 03:58 PM:

On the projection network there is no WAN access. When I'm plugged directly into the projector, I can use the cinema wifi if I need to access the Strong or GDC FTP sites, but I really wanted to make it as difficult as possible for anyone to get into the projection network. Our NOC has a dedicated static IP to get in through the LMS.

I'm not sure if the particular router I'm using has a specific bridge mode as I have not tried to use it.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 11-25-2013, 04:00 PM:

Most devices let you disable the WAN side, so you just don't use the WAN port at all.

Alternatively, many of the cheaper devices support DD-WRT firmware (the D-Link DIR-615 does). DD-WRT gives you a lot of options, you usually only find on more expensive models, including bridging WAN and LAN side and even multi-SSID and VLAN support on many devices.