Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Weird problem with Cine-IPM 2k,

This is topic Weird problem with Cine-IPM 2k, in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 10-10-2013, 03:57 AM:

Or possibly with NEC NC800C or with my laptop, I'm not certain which yet.

Has anybody seen a problem like this? I used to use my old laptop connected to the DVI input on the Cine-IPM and it worked fine. I haven't done this since I stopped projecting, probably almost four yers ago now. The laptop is a late 2006 model white Macbook, purchased in January 2007, and running 10.5. Never had any problems using it with the Cine-IPM.

In November last year I purchased a new laptop, a Macbook Pro, not Retina display. It's running 10.8. It has various Windows and Linux virtual machines installed, but all are suspended, and VMWare Fusion is not running when I'm using it at the cinema. Both are 13" models.

At the moment I'm at the cinema about one evening per week, working towards a re-opening, hopefully next month. The first event planned will actually need to use a laptop. I took the new laptop with me two weeks ago to test the Cine-IPM, and could get no display at all on the screen. The laptop was putting out a signal; the IPM was reporting something sensible on its LCD display regarding signal type etc. Not only was there no laptop display, but no IPM menus, and not even the Christie logo. Also, the IPM didn't seem to be responding to any buttons on its remote control. Batteries were weak, cable looked a mess and I wasn't sure whether it was configured to use a wired or wireless remote. Went back on Tuesday with fresh batteries and a new cable; It turned out that the IPM was configured for a wired remote, and the cable was faulty; remote control now working, but still no display.

At this point I disconnected the laptop and connected a DVD player to input 1 on the IPM via component video cables and this worked fine, both DVD video and IPM menus displayed on screen. Also tried both S and composite inputs, again they worked fine. Tried the laptop again, at various display resolutions, and still nothing. I then disconnected the cable from the laptop, and plugged it in again. As I did this I very briefly got a picture on screen for about half a second or so, then it blanked. It did the same each time I tried this. Using different DVI cable and adapter in the laptop made no difference.

I then put a VGA adapter into the DVI-I connector on the IPM and tried connecting a VGA signal from the laptop; it worked perfectly. Went back to DVI and still the same problem. Not only is the display from the laptop blanking after half a second or so, but whatever the problem is it is also killing the display of the IPM menus.

I didn't have another DVI signal source with me at the time, I'm going back this eening with the old laptop, and possibly a Blu-Ray player if I can manage to carry it along with various other stuff; fortunately, it's only about five minutes walk away.

At the moment I'm completely puzzled. The new laptop works fine with any DVI or HDMI monitor which I've ever used it with. It's not a HDCP problem; I'm not displaying any HDCP content, and if I was doing so the laptop would show a warning message that one monitor was not HDCP complient on its built-in screen.

Anybody have any ideas?

Posted by Larry Zuverink (Member # 1483) on 10-10-2013, 10:37 AM:

We have has similar issues with CineIPM and off brand scalers and Macs. Thunderbolt to hdmi locks everything up(and does not show an error on laptop). Thunderbolt to VGA works perfectly. So we only do VGA. [Smile]

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 10-10-2013, 10:53 AM:

That's interesting Larry. The Apple mini Displayport (or Thunderbolt) to DVI-D is a passive adapter which just tells the dual-mode port on the computer to switch to outputting DVI signals on some of its pins, rather than Displayport ones.

There are also non-Apple active adapters which take Displayport signals from the computer and convert them into DVI-D signals. I wonder if one of these might solve the problem.

All Displayport to VGA adapters work this way as Displayport ports cannot be switched to output analogue signals, as do Displayport to dual-link DVI-D adapters, because the Displayport connector, standard or mini, does not have enough pins to carry dual-link DVI.

I'm going to try the old laptop this evening, which is mini-DVD output.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 10-10-2013, 02:52 PM:

Sorry, that should have read mini- DVI of course.

Update, the old laptop works perfectly. I'll try an active adapter and see if that works. In the meantime we can use VGA. The first show will be a documentary about a '70s band. With that sort of content the difference will not be noticeable, it's not like trying to read small text on screen.

Thanks for the tip.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-10-2013, 11:17 PM:

Change your laptop's resolution and/or refresh rate. Case in point, the CineIPM2k can't handle a 1920x1080 signal worth a flip. Most resolutions LOWER are just fine. In the case of Macs, they offer lots of refresh rates. Try 60Hz.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 10-11-2013, 02:13 AM:

Brad,

That was one of my first thoughts, but in this case it's not the problem. I tried every resolution the thing offered me,
and none of them worked. Low resolutions at 60 Hz. did exactly the same thing. Also, the same resolutions work fine from the new laptop via VGA, and from the old one via DVI.

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 10-11-2013, 08:24 AM:

HDCP?

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 10-11-2013, 08:50 AM:

No Pete,no HDCP content involved, and the laptop gives a message on its own screen saying that one of the monitors is not HDCP compliant if you do try to play HDCP content. I've managed to borrow an active type Displayport to DVI converter, which I'm going to try on Tuesday to see if it makes any difference.

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 10-11-2013, 01:50 PM:

EDID?

A colleague recently had a scenario where a satellite receiver would not work into the DVI input of an IPM.

He wound up converting the HDMI to component.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 10-11-2013, 01:52 PM:

What's EDID?

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 10-12-2013, 12:39 PM:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extended_display_identification_data

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 10-17-2013, 08:13 AM:

Still not sure exactly what the problem is, but it works with an active Mini Displayport to single link DVI adapter, rather than the Apple passive one.

Posted by Geoff Newitt (Member # 6663) on 11-03-2013, 01:59 PM:

I'm sure I read somewhere that all newer Apple products apply HDCP when they detect a digital sink - even when the content doesn't require it. Saves half a penny's worth of resources. Some BluRay players do the same. Some of those converters are less passive than they look too.

It's infuriating - especially as at Picturehouse we're early adopters, the bulk of the estate is non-HDCP compliant.

And Brad's correct about the CineIPM not liking 1920x1080 - we find that if you feed them 1920x1080p in the digital domain you get some weird artefacts in the picture. 1080i and 1080p analogue seem to be OK.

Posted by Gary Benn (Member # 7858) on 04-21-2014, 03:12 PM:

That's correct. Macs always apply HDCP on DVI-D.

Use a mini-port to VGA adapter. Works just fine with the IPM.

Posted by Steve Moore (Member # 4753) on 04-27-2014, 10:30 AM:

Speaking of IPM frequencies and resolutions, has anyone else had a problem with running Blu-ray through them and more exactly Universal Blu-rays? When I was having a play with mine with any discs I have in different ratios this week (have a festival coming up with some on DVD/BD and i dread those via an IPM).

The issue I had was with two Universal's titles, which push the vertical rate on the IPM up to 59.59 (every other disc I have tried works fine and much lower Hz).

However when their discs (Despicable me and Back to the Future) are tested the projector crops the top and bottom of the image on screen, which from reading is because the CP2000 projector can not handle vertical rates above 50Hz with cinema mode selected on the screen setup (i.e. through the projectors scaler.) The problem comes that really i need the scaler on for BD and DVD to set up the ratio to fit our screen. I can see most of the picture with TPC set to Non Cinema mode, but then my image is slightly off shape and i loose some top and bottom onto the masking.

Has anyone else encountered this and ever found an solution?