Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Doremi IMS1000 or GDC SX3000 for a Barco DP2K-10S

This is topic Doremi IMS1000 or GDC SX3000 for a Barco DP2K-10S in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Juan Jose Garcia Calvo (Member # 1702) on 11-07-2013, 01:26 AM:

Hello everybody.
Can anyone tell me what issues or advantages do you think there would be choosing the Doremi IMS1000 or the GDC SX3000 with the Barco 10S proyector in mobile applications?
With the first one you ever need a laptop (maybe an iPad), but you have the hard disc integrated inside. The second one you only need a screen (touch screen and that's all), but hard disc are outside the projector (worst for mobile applications).
What would you choose and why?
Thanks!!

Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 11-07-2013, 07:10 AM:

Another possibility is the USL CMS-2200 .

Harold

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 11-07-2013, 10:41 AM:

I guess I would choose the Doremi - it has a larger local storage, and it is slightly longer in the market and tested with the Barco already for a few months now, plus offers features like Audio->AES passthrough for HDMI sources.

I read through USLs CMS-2200 documentation recently, it looks promising, the user interface looks smart. But AFAIK it has only a smaller amount of SSD/flash memory,

AND, it is still fairly new. Although I guess their basic IMB technology has proved stable in the form of their OEM'ed Dolby IMB - but the CMS-2200 is still quite different from the Dolby CAT 745, with the whole SMS and storage being added to it.

The USLs SSD may sound like a big plus for mobile use, but if you'd ever treat your projector to the extent of crashing these harddiscs, you will have other problems as well...
Aside from that, the three discs in the IMS1000 can easily be removed for separate transport if you're really concerned.

- Carsten

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-07-2013, 12:19 PM:

Stick with the Doremi. The 10S is a relatively new machine and we know the Doremi works with it.

That being said, SSDs aren't really going to buy you anything but added cost to an IMB with onboard storage and will cost you raid space. Raid space is a major key to many theater's operation, as more and more theaters are moving content around, running retro and alternative content, and a small raid size means lots of extra work and potential for missed shows since potentially the entire week's worth of programming couldn't be loaded onto a small raid.

The USL unit looks interesting and at least they were smart enough to achieve up to 3TB (if you pay for it) of storage with 4 drives, but again I see no benefit for the SSD. I've had equally the same amount of failures with SSD drives than conventional drives and the cost is just not worth it.

I would stay far far away from the GDC. While the idea of having a central server room may seem ideal on paper, I don't like the idea of "streaming" via ethernet.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 11-07-2013, 03:15 PM:

Iwould choose the GDC over the DOREMI IMS
The GDC allows for ive play if the cru drive arrives late
Also supports RS232 automation in build 2.9

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 11-07-2013, 06:53 PM:

I understand that the DCI spec requires a movie to be on screen within 15 minutes of a distribution drive being on hand: Doremi does this with "PIngest", play while ingesting. Hooking up a distro drive and using this, within 15 minutes you can start a show. It may not be "play live off a distro drive" but it isn't faar off.
I haven't used an IMS yet, but this works on a "normal" Doremi server. Doremi engineering told me about the 15 minute rule and that PIngest was developed for it, I don't think the rule is different for the IMS.

Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 11-07-2013, 08:05 PM:

Is this 15 minute requirement from DCI 5.2.3.6? Is ingest an intratheater movement of content?

Thanks!

Harold

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 11-08-2013, 05:20 AM:

quote:
I understand that the DCI spec requires a movie to be on screen within 15 minutes of a distribution drive being on hand:

Ooops? How did so many DCI projection systems manage to get their DCI compliance without that feature?

- Carsten

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-08-2013, 05:55 AM:

Dave...does the Doremi feature work with a USB ingest though? WIth a CRU ingest, yes...give it a head start and away you go. Doremi is unique because you are playing off of the RAID rather than the CRU as the others do. Note, on Dolby, you can transfer to the RAID while playing off of the CRU...this is true on the DSS220 too if you are using the supplied eSATA cable rather than a USB ingest.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 11-08-2013, 06:45 AM:

Doremi will only Pngest over network, pre-ingested/validated DCPs from another Doremi or TMS. And it needs a decent amount of pre-buffering for the start.

----
8.6 Pngest
The Pngest feature is available when the user is ingesting content over a Doremi remote server or LMS.
Note: The Pgnest feature is available only when ingesting content over a Remote Doremi Server or an LMS, not from a USB or SATA.
When the user is ingesting a Composition, it can be played it while it is being ingested rather than waiting until the ingest is complete to play it. Give the CPL approximately 5-7 minutes to load.
---

GDC will play directly from a CRU distribution drive. I have seen it being done for single-showings of arthouse titles. I would not recommend it as a regular practice.
No big deal to prepare a Playlist in advance, then ingest the content and just pop it into the Playlist and run under 'normal' conditions. You never know whether a distribution drive is okay or can sustain the datarate for the full feature.

- Carsten

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 11-08-2013, 02:44 PM:

I like recent USL products. The Dolby/745 has proven to work very well, much better than the Doremi.
I would give USL a go to be honest.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 11-08-2013, 03:26 PM:

Oh, well it took Dolby 2 years to bring it to market and it still has not enabled all features almost a year after it's final release.
The USL 2200 LOOKs good, but there is little practical experience with it so far.
For a cinema operator, that's just too much risk IMHO.

- Carsten

Posted by Ian Freer (Member # 1940) on 11-08-2013, 03:33 PM:

The GDC SX-3000 utilises an external RAID enclosure (that can be configured with either 3x or 4x 1TB HDD's) that connects to the IMB via eSATA. Obviously with the 4x HDD's option it is a slightly larger RAID than the Doremi.

Brad, the idea of streaming everything from a central cluster of NAS drives or some-such is something GDC seem to be suggesting/preparing for but it is not the way the SX-3000 is currently being installed, at least not that I've seen on this side of the world. Is this being implemented in the US already? I share your reservations about that technique...

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 11-08-2013, 03:52 PM:

Sure, but it works well. I can't say the same of Doremi.

Posted by Ian Freer (Member # 1940) on 11-08-2013, 06:21 PM:

Also, referring back to the OP on the topic of mobile projector applications, there could be some extra advantage in the GDC's external PSD-3000 enclosure.

I believe Doremi recommend removing the HDD's from the IMS before any shipping of the IMS. I assume this would be good practice to follow if the projector is being moved around too, once powered down, remove the HDD's from the IMS and store safely until next use...

The GDC RAID, being an external enclosure, can just be detached from the projector and stored carefully, but you do not need to actually extract the HDD's from the enclosure. This reduces the connect/disconnect count on the SATA connectors on the HDD's themselves and in general reduces any physical handling of the HDD's

Also, a second PSD-3000 could also be on hand for a bit of back up/insurance. If the main PSD-3000 does fail, just switch over the eSATA cable and your off again (after a server reboot of course...)

Additionally, part of GDC's longer term plan is the the SX-3000 can connect to multiple PSD-3000 RAID's at one time (there is 3x eSATA connectors on the IMB). This potentially triples the amount of storage available to the user...

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 11-10-2013, 06:40 AM:

Harold, does your mediablock accept encrypted content via HDSDI? Can I connect a old media block to it?

Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 11-10-2013, 08:01 PM:

The USL CMS-2200 does not currently support link encryption over the HDSI input. There does not appear to be a use case for this.

Thanks!

Harold

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-10-2013, 09:07 PM:

I have installed about 20 SX-3000's so far and have many more to go in. They have worked properly since day one and have seen just two firmware upgrades since being released. There are so many more advantages to the SX-3000 over the Doremi that it's silly to even compare the two. It's like comparing a VW to a BMW. SX-3000 does have outboard storage but that is a far better option that being stuck with a three drive on board configuration. The outboard storage is hardware raid and available in three or four drive off the shelf. You can also expand a 3 drive to 4 drive at any time just by adding the 4th drive. It will automatically build to that configuration.

You can also choose to use an NAS storage array if you like. Irregardless of what Brad and Steve say both these IMS - IMB style servers and ethernet streaming are the way of the future. It is less expensive and price dictates the market on all this hardware. And network streaming with in a given building can be made redundant and highly reliable, every bit as reliable as local storage. It is where the industry is now heading to.

I look foreword to seeing what the USL can do but I'm afraid that to me it seems to have arrived a little too late to make much of a dent in the market. 8 or 9 months ago would have helped a lot!

Mark