Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: The 5.1 of Catching Fire is out of sync here...

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Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 11-20-2013, 06:14 PM:

The 5.1 of Catching Fire is out of sync here...maybe by at least 3 - 4 frames. I tested it on two screens and re-booted servers and processors. No change. The 7.1 is OK though and that's what we're using even though we only have 5.1.

Fortunately we have KDM's for both versions.

Is this world-wide or just Oz? They added a ROADSHOW title to the beginning of ours so maybe that's where the issue is?

We'll see.

Posted by Ian Freer (Member # 1940) on 11-20-2013, 09:54 PM:

It's definitely the same here in NZ, but of course I think we just got the Aus version as it's the same distributor...

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-21-2013, 06:35 AM:

See...that is what you get when you play a northern hemisphere movie in the southern hemisphere! It is vice-versa up here when we get one of your HFR Hobbit movies...it just doesn't look right. [Wink]

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 11-21-2013, 08:54 AM:

Yep. Adjust your timezone and it will play in sync. ;-)

- Carsten

Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 11-21-2013, 09:40 AM:

I figured films just played backwards down under. [Wink]

AJG

Posted by Marc Jensen (Member # 3561) on 11-21-2013, 08:30 PM:

Word is out now. "Run 7.1." It would have been good to know about this before the midnight screenings, but distributors' ideas on when KDMs should be active... [Roll Eyes]

Comedy ensues.

I've heard that some sites have resorted to mass refunds for patrons who came to their midnight shows. [Frown]

Posted by Danial Simmonds (Member # 4638) on 11-21-2013, 11:53 PM:

For this title catching fire, did any of you face subtitle issues? It is huge covering half the screen?

Using the Projector Subtitles fixes the issue, but not when using server subtitles and some projectors it doesnt work i think it could be due to some projectors are still on a bit older version.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 11-22-2013, 04:26 AM:

Can't you just adjust the audio delay, on either the server or the sound processor?

Posted by Jock Blakley (Member # 6552) on 11-22-2013, 05:53 AM:

That would only work if it was consistently out of sync - I seem to recall reading elsewhere that it drifts in and out?

Posted by Antti Nayha (Member # 4980) on 11-22-2013, 08:31 AM:

quote: Aaron Garman
I figured films just played backwards down under.

Actually they play upside down. However, the patrons' brains have adapted so that they don't even notice it. It's a bummer for tourists, though.

Posted by Marc Jensen (Member # 3561) on 11-22-2013, 08:26 PM:

quote: Stephen Furley
Can't you just adjust the audio delay, on either the server or the sound processor?

I was told that the sync problem was evident in just the first 20 minutes, so no.

Posted by Peter Castle (Member # 1997) on 11-22-2013, 11:24 PM:

Sync problems usually upset me, but I sat through the whole movie without detecting any sync problem.

Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 11-23-2013, 12:09 AM:

Sync problems? How about no sound?
http://i.stuff.co.nz/southland-times/news/9433665/Cinema-crammed-movie-silent

Harold

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 11-23-2013, 05:56 AM:

Wow, that's a nice one ;-)

(from the above link)

'Someone had initially forgotten to switch the film's sound on, but when the matter was brought to his attention by a customer, he was able to restore the soundtrack, he said. However, restarting the film so that viewers could watch the opening scenes with sound was not possible because he did not know how to do it.'

'When asked if people were seated in the aisles during the screening, Mr Cook said he would not comment, as "that would be undesirable and probably illegal".'

- Carsten

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 11-23-2013, 09:04 AM:

I also heard the other day of a cinema that ran the second part of the movie after the intermission (sigh!) with the lights on. Staff could not intervene because they did not know how to turn the lights off...

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 11-23-2013, 12:02 PM:

A "manager" that doesn't know how to re-start the movie?

I can see one of the concession girls or even an usher not knowing anything about the "magic", but the bloody manager? What kind of people are running theatres these days?

I can restart my movie from the beginning of the playlist by hitting stop and then play, or restart the movie from the start of the movie by hitting pause and then moving the sliding doodad back to the beginning of the show. I assume other servers work in a similar manner.

Again, what sort of a "manager" doesn't know how to push stop and play?

I'm shocked by that degree of incompetence. Really shocked. Amazed... Truly astonished....

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 11-23-2013, 12:51 PM:

I will spare you all from another of my infamous "tin foil hat" rants.

But I can't resist throwing in at least one "I TOLD YOU SO!!"

I hope I'm in the audience some night when something like this happens.

I'll offer to go up & start or re-start the movie for 3/4 of the boxoffice cash.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-23-2013, 03:16 PM:

Frank, you'd be amazed at how little training is provided to people...and then those people "teach" the underlings.

You combine that with the fact most booths are so automated and work, most of the time, people just don't know what to do when something goes wrong. Why do you think Film-Tech offers the complete automation solution? We, aside from training people better, also are a bit more active in supporting our customers.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-23-2013, 07:12 PM:

We actually take calls to "turn up the volume a notch". Now these clients aren't so ignorant that they don't know HOW to change the volume, they just know they can call the NOC and get it done faster than walking upstairs and turning the knob themselves.

Still, we do get our fair share of calls to do things like turn on the cleaning lights because a patron fell and hurt himself or to back the movie up because there was a fight in the auditorium, etc. Many of the managers actually might not know how to back the movie up 5 minutes, but it doesn't matter with the full DCS package. They can concentrate on running their theater as they have no worries about the booth.

The issue here is for theaters without our package, they REALLY SHOULD KNOW how to do everything, and clearly that isn't happening.

Posted by James Falloon (Member # 1933) on 11-23-2013, 10:10 PM:

quote: Frank Cox
I can restart my movie from the beginning of the playlist by hitting stop and then play, or restart the movie from the start of the movie by hitting pause and then moving the sliding doodad back to the beginning of the show. I assume other servers work in a similar manner.

Again, what sort of a "manager" doesn't know how to push stop and play?

quote: Jim Cassedy
I hope I'm in the audience some night when something like this happens.

I'll offer to go up & start or re-start the movie for 3/4 of the boxoffice cash.

Just a quick note that not everyone down here in New Zealand has switched to digital yet. I'm not sure if the cinema referred to in the news article has made the conversion yet. Restarting a playlist may be easy, but restarting a film - well that's a different story.

Still inexcusable, but if they were playing film, at least the sound (when working) would have been in sync [Big Grin]

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 11-25-2013, 11:45 AM:

quote: Brad Miller
Now these clients aren't so ignorant that they don't know HOW to change the volume, they just know they can call the NOC and get it done faster than walking upstairs and turning the knob themselves.

Do they not have the appropriate software on their office computers? You primarily use the Basis system, right? Can't you create custom control panels in Venue Manager?

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 11-25-2013, 01:14 PM:

We put Dolby's remote volume control in our office. Cost about 50 times what the parts are probably worth, but the time/effort saved in running up and down the stairs made it worth it.

Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 11-25-2013, 02:51 PM:

Wow.

Precisely why I am moving in the direction I am with this business.

It never ceases to amaze me how much people DO NOT KNOW how to operate digital projectors.

Basic computer knowledge. Right?

AH-MAZING!

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 11-25-2013, 10:43 PM:

Ken, giving the managers access to the Venue Manager in a BASIS system would in essence be saying "here, now break the sound". No way. I'm interested in uptime, not dispatching field techs and losing shows.

Volume changes are a rare occurence. Remember the systems are adjusting volume based upon the attendance already. That being said we have been putting remote faders downstairs for the lobby systems that are ran on BASIS systems.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-26-2013, 05:45 AM:

Mike,

With respect to a hardware fader for a sound processor. If you factor in the time it took to design it, fabricate it and then the potential unit sales, supoort it...the price is probably a bargain.

That said, if your office computer had a NIC on the booth network, then you could adjust a Dolby fader via software. If you have a CP750, there is an app for it too. If you have a Dolby server (thought I think I remember you may have a GDC)...then merely put a VNC client on your office computer and you have the whole Dolby GUI on your office computer...which has the volume control on the front.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 11-26-2013, 08:23 AM:

On the topic of remote faders, these are incredibly useful in special-venue situations.

At one theatre (mostly a live stage house with occasional film screenings), we have a CP650 with a remote unit next to each 35mm projector and also one at the FOH mix position for the sound man. Since we show a mix of films, mostly older ones, the sound levels vary widely from print to print, and it is useful for the sound man to be able to adjust things to his liking on the first screening. Since the remote faders on the CP650 are all linked together, the operator can just note the fader values and use them for subsequent screenings of the same film (usually by assigning the appropriate fader settings to each format).

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 11-26-2013, 07:08 PM:

quote: Steve Guttag
With respect to a hardware fader for a sound processor. If you factor in the time it took to design it, fabricate it and then the potential unit sales, supoort it...the price is probably a bargain.

Hmm, I dunno....you can buy a full-featured desktop computer or a pretty good-sized flat screen TV for what these remotes cost. I'm sure the price is driven mostly by the limited market, plus that Dolby nameplate.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-26-2013, 11:16 PM:

Mike, have you ever designed something like that for small production runs? I have...and let me tell you, Dolby isn't getting rich off of them. It was probably in excess of a year before they even broke even on it.

We made the Sony changeover interface and had to sell it for about $150.00 each and it was just a little PC board with a few chips.

What it costs to make a TV in China with slave labor and a market with billions of sales is completely different than designing a specialty item with a mere hundreds of potential sales.

Posted by William Kucharski (Member # 7246) on 12-02-2013, 11:10 PM:

I've been at theaters where they've done this and more.

The standard answer to errors pointed out even two minutes in (in the last case, the auto-masking system had broken at an AMC and they were showing a 1.85:1 film at the 2.35:1 masking setting so the top half of the picture was being lost in the black curtain) is "we can't restart a digital presentation" and offering you a free ticket to a future showing.

Even better was when they had screwed up the timing entered such that the lights came on about twenty minutes before the end of the film and the projection stopped abruptly after the programmed length of the credits.

Same deal - "here's a free ticket to see it again."

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-04-2013, 10:13 AM:

As Steve said designing and producing a limited production product one doesn't get rich
usually a min of 2 prototype boards that have full set up costs then often fixes for fitmware and at that point one finds out a component you used is no longer available