Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Difference between Barco DP2K-15C and DP2K-20C?

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Posted by Mattias Mattsson (Member # 4308) on 11-27-2013, 02:58 PM:

Does anyone know what is the difference between these two projectors?

Both have two LPS:es and liquid cooling. Depending on where you read it should be possible to use a 4 kW Xenon in a 15C.

Posted by Stefan Vogels (Member # 5573) on 11-27-2013, 03:19 PM:

Unfortunally not, the dp2k-15C does not allow you to operate an lamp on 4kW. The beauty of it is that you can install a 4kW lamp in an 15C and when it strikes it puts out 4kW full power for the first few seconds. Than it goes to the desired powerlevel set by the engineer during install which is maximised to just over 3 kW.

Posted by Mattias Mattsson (Member # 4308) on 11-27-2013, 05:33 PM:

So is this the only difference, the software imposed limit to not be able to use a 4 kW bulb in a 15C?

Are these two models, apart from the above, identical hardware-wise?

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 11-27-2013, 06:01 PM:

I guess the light engine is different, the 20C one will be able to dissipate the extra heat.

Posted by Jock Blakley (Member # 6552) on 11-27-2013, 06:21 PM:

Both use 0.98" imagers. The -15c can use up to 3 kW lamps for 14,500 lumens and the -20C up to 4 kW for 18,500 lumens.

Other than that restriction the two are pretty much identical.

Barco's advice is that the -15C is designed for use on screens up to 15 metres wide and the -20C 20.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-27-2013, 06:25 PM:

The 20C and the 15C are the same projector. It is strictly a software imposed power restriction. The same applies to the 19B versus the 23B. Barco could easily eliminate 2 models from their line up.

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 11-27-2013, 07:33 PM:

Well. that's an interesting little secret.

Always thought the power supply was smaller.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-28-2013, 12:33 AM:

Nope...ALL parts are 100% interchangeable. The only difference is the personality chip on the backplane and the silk screen on the lamphouse cover skin. Barco is so modular, the same power supply is used on all of the "C" and "B" series projectors (I haven't checked but probably the "S" series too). It is a 2400-watt module...they just stack them to get more wattage. So the 15C and 20C use two of them for a potential 4800-watt capacity.

The 12C is different in more ways than just the single LPS...it is air cooled too rather than with water cooling of the DMDs.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 11-28-2013, 04:37 AM:

Good to know, thanks Steve.

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 11-28-2013, 10:49 AM:

So, is there a way to hack it? Talk about crass commercialism.

There used to be an ORC platter or automation and the "deluxe" model. When asked what the difference was, the answer was $500.00!

They meant it.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-28-2013, 11:58 AM:

There is always a way to hack something but none have done it to this one, that I am aware.

The chip contains the serial number of the projector and in the event of a backplane change, one has to move the chip to the new one. There is no part number for this chip since one is to NEVER replace it.

The story is that Barco made the 19B and the 15C as low-cost 23B sand 20Cs. It is a way to keep the profit margin on the popular sized projectors. This was particularly true when 3D was going in as THE reason for DCinema. (They started these shenanigans with the DP2000/DP1500).

My way of thinking is...how many sales did you lose because your 20C or 23B were more expensive than a competitor and how much more does it cost to have to make/stock two extra models? Get rid of the 15C and the 19B and sell the 20C and 23B for the 3KW price since it doesn't cost any more to make. Drop the price even more and leave the crappy Osram lamps out of them too (please!).

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 11-28-2013, 12:21 PM:

I have two 23B running the 4K lamp that uses that long brass cathode adapter, but with a wider screen size.

Seems a waste then to run the same 4K lamp in a larger unit to where one would think the smaller 20C could have done the same task.

Posted by Stefan Vogels (Member # 5573) on 11-28-2013, 02:46 PM:

That's not entirely true. The 23B is a 1,2" chip versus the 0.98" of the 20C. The 23B will be more light efficient. As a matter of fact a 19B with 3 kW comes pretty close to a 20C with 4kW.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-28-2013, 06:34 PM:

quote: Steve Guttag
The chip contains the serial number of the projector and in the event of a backplane change, one has to move the chip to the new one. There is no part number for this chip since one is to NEVER replace it.

It is probably just a ROM chip of some sort. Copying those is a piece of cake and I've actually done it many times over the last ten years. Many models of H-P test equipment have their OS's residing on these chips and they have a finite lifespan in which they can hold that data as a charge. So eventually the piece of test gear will no longer boot up. The old chips can be erased and then
reprogrammed again, not necessarily so on new chips as many are now meant for being imaged one time only. I recently sent a set of re-burned chips for a 54112 scope to a guy in Phoenix area and his scope is now working again. And I also saved the image of each of the four chips while I was at it in case some one else needs it. So it should be easy to read the code on those Barko chips and do exactly the same thing. Although you'd have a bunch of the same serial number projectors out there... Unless you go in and figure out their code. That part it a bit trickier...

Note that the are quite a few of these chips in Dolby products like the DA-20 and CP-500. So these processors will also have a finite life span just because the charge on those chips eventually deteriorates. I've actually been considering reading the chips on my DA-20 and storing the ROM image...

Mark

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 11-29-2013, 06:13 AM:

Same issue with the DP2k-10Sx and the new DP2k-8Sx - same machine, but power supply software limited to 1.6kW (6000 lumens) instead of 2.2kW (9000 lumens). Saves you 5000US$ or something...

- Carsten

Posted by Chase Taylor (Member # 778) on 11-29-2013, 09:54 AM:

It is saved on a SMART chip.

Posted by Mattias Mattsson (Member # 4308) on 12-03-2013, 04:37 PM:

Thanks Stefan, Steve & Carsten for the info!

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-03-2013, 07:53 PM:

Saved on a ROM. Those are easily copied.