This is topic Ignition problem on Barco dp 2k 15 c in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Adam Sherwood (Member # 7802) on 12-21-2013, 11:54 AM:
 
Hi guys, ive been having this problem for a while, every couple of shows the Projector wont start the bulb. but when i do it myself not a problem, the spg anode got replaced still happening. bulb is fine and all connections checked the tech who happen tp be on site one day looked and said everything was fine. once its Manuel'y strik'd it comes on without a problem and Brightness on screen is as normal. The tech lads have tried a few things but no look .

we though it might be the way the Show start Que was set up.

Some adjustments were made

but no luck

Any one have any suggestions to check that we could try

its an odd problem, besides a pain running up when it happens and turning it back on its not causing any real trouble
 

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Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 12-21-2013, 12:03 PM:
 
Latest Barco firmware release has a specific update to improve xenon ignition. Get your integrator to check and update the projector firmware as necessary.

We see a lot of this problem, the current thinking is that it is damage caused to the bulb by running at minimum current. The projector is delivered with the highest wattage lamp it can use, which often as not is too bright for the screen. It then runs at minimum current to around 500 hours, when this problem starts. I've had this happen with Ushio, Phillips and Osram lamps in Barco projectors. Interestingly it doesn't happen in Kinoton projectors, but the LPS and ignitor (SPG in digital speak) are different to Barco's.

I always change the lamp to something suited to the screen conditions on installation. We can usually find someone who actually needs the removed lamp and a deal can be struck.
 

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Posted by Adam Sherwood (Member # 7802) on 12-21-2013, 12:25 PM:
 
they actually said they are going to do the Barco firmware on Monday as they did mention it could help. So maybe this will help bulb is osram 2k and has 1600 on hrs on it .... its not running on min power .... . as they are doing this on monday we wont know if it works til after Christmas.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-21-2013, 07:50 PM:
 
I can not emphasize this enough...get rid of the Osram lamps. They are absolute junk. You will ALWAYS have more problems with them than Ushio. While it is true that they all have their good and bad batches...Osram has at least 50-times more bad lamps than Ushio.

That and firmware 1.11.133 should fix your issues. One can always add more lamp on lines in the macros (Either via automation or on the Barco format itself).
 

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Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 12-22-2013, 03:09 AM:
 
I've always been curious of that. So if you have 5 lamp on macros 5 seconds apart each and the lamp strikes successfully on the first or second cue, are the others ignored, or does it still try to strike a lit lamp or what?
 

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Posted by Adam Sherwood (Member # 7802) on 12-22-2013, 06:55 AM:
 
I know how bad osram are .. we moveing away in the new year. once our current stock runs out ....ive had 2 warenty claims in less than a year... had ushio on the 35mm hearldy ever an issue and we had one usiho for the barco last year no problems..

found when we had these problems every time it was from a playlisted show. and what was happeing as well was it kept trying to stike the bulb 3-4 times in a few seconds in stead of a second command to wait for a few sec then re strike.. one manuel strike and we were sorted ... Hopefully this fix will work. another early morning for me
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-22-2013, 08:12 AM:
 
You should separate the lamp-on cues by 30 seconds or so to allow each one to execute. While the cues are not ignored if the lamp is on...the projector will see that the lamp is already on and not just fire the igniter (SPG) again. In effect, there is no real harm to having extras.
 

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Posted by Gavin Lewarne (Member # 5397) on 12-22-2013, 04:14 PM:
 
had this with original factory fit osram, had it with warranty replacement osram, both around the 500 hour mark.

Put in a Ushio, no problem @ 900 hours, strikes first time every time
 

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Posted by Adam Sherwood (Member # 7802) on 12-23-2013, 05:52 AM:
 
yeah i had pritty much simuler problem.. 3k osram half life.. War claim

.got the update done this moring so we should be sorted
 

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Posted by Paul Maxon (Member # 6211) on 12-27-2013, 12:34 PM:
 
From my experience with these 2K osram lamps, you will have this strike issue for about 100-200 more hours, then the lamp will start going out during shows. I have a house with 6 DP2K 12C projectors, and 2 DP2K-20C projectors. I have only had ONE OSRAM bulb ever make it to warranty hours. Do yourself a favor and pay the premium for a better lamp.

I actually had one die during a show on monday night. Working fine all day, the software update fixed the strike issues. Then about 50 minutes into the show, black screen. Restarted the lamp and checked its power, 55 amps, horrible flicker. I had to crank the power to the max to keep it lit. Managed to make it though the show. Replaced it with an USHIO bulb, which I have had way better luck with. Currently have 2 in projectors with over 1500 hours on them, working beautifully.

Lamp was at proper power settings and has proper cooling. But 1400 hours in, dead. Most I've ever gotten out of a 2K is 1700 hours.

Good Luck
 

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Posted by Gavin Lewarne (Member # 5397) on 12-28-2013, 09:03 AM:
 
given the similar construction, internal components and operating tolerances it makes you wonder why osram seem to be far inferior against the similarly priced / specced Ushios

I mean, even the manufacturing process cannot be that different?

I have heard a rumour that Osram will soon cease Xenon production, though I am not sure as to its origins or truth
 

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Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 12-29-2013, 07:06 PM:
 
There were factory reports on OSRAM and LTI xenon manufacturing in past issues of cinema technology magazine. You'd be surprised how different manufacturing can be. And it is obvious that large batches of the same product may have wild variances in production quality. OSRAM did quite well for a long time. Seems they have serious problems now. For a while, LTI/Philips was considered the worst choice. Now it seems they outperform OSRAM.

The manufacturing and quality control of xenon lamps for digital cinema is very complicated.

- Carsten
 

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Posted by Adam Sherwood (Member # 7802) on 01-05-2014, 12:05 PM:
 
the update they did is hard to tell if it having an effect or not , , as the bulb has 1887 hours on it and 1054 strikes" caused by the problem of repeated striking" has happened a few more times but the bulb has been performing fine during the show no problem, im waiting on a order of ushio lamps to come in.
 

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Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 01-13-2014, 01:23 PM:
 
Someone more familiar with the C series can comment further on this, but I learned relatively recently that there is a known striking issue with the B series. The solution is to remove the metal cover on the back of the SPG compartment if it is present; new projectors are not shipping with this cover. I don't know if there is a similar cover on the C series, but I thought this was worth mentioning.
 

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Posted by Antti Nayha (Member # 4980) on 01-14-2014, 04:32 PM:
 

quote: Pete Naples

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We see a lot of this problem, the current thinking is that it is damage caused to the bulb by running at minimum current.

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