Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Automated NEC projector switch on

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Posted by James Crowley (Member # 7299) on 01-24-2014, 08:22 AM:

Hi,

Does anyone know if its possible to bring an NEC out of standby on a timer system?

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 01-24-2014, 08:29 AM:

It is definitely possible with the right automation system. Which automation are you using?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-24-2014, 09:15 AM:

This can be done with any programmable automation such as the Eprad eCNA series and others. Has to be able to talk over ethernet for it to happen. It may work through GPIO but I don't know anyone using GPIO around here so can't vouch for that...

Mark

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 01-24-2014, 10:56 AM:

The projector does support GPIO controls for lamp, douser, and title change. I have to imagine standby is in there too, but I don't know which pin.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-24-2014, 02:37 PM:

We do On/Off via the eCNA automation (in and out of Standby).

It is possible via the GPIO pins...factory default is GPI 1 is on and GPI 2 is off but they are assignable.

Posted by James Crowley (Member # 7299) on 01-26-2014, 05:59 PM:

The system I'm looking at trying it out in is set up with a Dolby server and is connected to a tms system. Over Ethernet would be preferable. Ideally having switch on playlist would be better but of course the Dolby transport error is there while the projector is in standby

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 01-27-2014, 12:15 PM:

As far as I'm aware, the playlist won't start if there is no communication with the projector, so you would need a way to power up the projector before show time. The latest eCNA firmware has all kinds of features that can take advantage of the box office schedule and execute events automatically based upon show times and even ticket sales. There are probably simpler ways to do it, too.

Although this doesn't exactly answer your question, if this simply a matter of not having the resources to have someone in the booth in the morning, you can access the NEC's built-in web server from anywhere on your network and turn on the projector that way. Just type the projector's IP address in your web browser.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 01-28-2014, 08:24 AM:

I know some servers have options to execute automation cues NOT from the playlist but at certain times of operation, e.g. bootup, by cron jobs, etc. The Doremis are well documented in this respect, for the Dolby I don't know any. 'Override projector communication lock' when first playlist command is 'projector on' sure would be a nice feature.

- Carsten

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-28-2014, 01:13 PM:

You are correct Carsten. On older GDC's for instance you can make up a show with just black roll and cues in it and set that to play just cues via the show auto scheduler. You can title it for instance "Projector On - Preshow" and have a cue that turns on the projector, the lamp, selects macro XX, pre-show audio and exhaust blower on. This would automatically take the theater to preshow. What ever is up next on the auto scheduler would just happen next... the main show for instance. Basically with a server that has these capabilities it makes for a hands free booth. No one ever needs to go upstairs at all. And as Ken mentions that can all be tied to ticket sales as well. On GDC's running 8.01 or the latest gestation of servers this is not possible.

I use eCNA's every where but not as a stand alone automation... I let the server cues drive the eCNA. I really dislike having automation like eCNA do ALL the automating. It takes any flexibility and any possibility of showmanship out of a show and leaves you in what I call "General Cinema Mode" or same ole same ole. Only if said theater operator is willing to pay his technician to write a new automation program for every different whim he has then it is fine, but I don't know of any theater owners that would do that.

Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-28-2014, 02:36 PM:

I disagree with Mark. I like the automation being the automation. As for "customizing" the automation...we do configure the automation to suit the individual exhibitor. We don't just issue it as a "you'll have it our way." We do often start out with a set template for them to work from but it will often be changed to suit the exhibitor since they are all different.

I rarely, if ever, have the server perform automation functions. It also allows us to be server or projector agnostic. Even with mixed equipment...we have some complexes that bought their stuff over time and there are GDC and Dolby servers, NEC and Barco projectors with USL and Dolby processors...everything cues and behaves identical...same SPL runs everywhere.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 01-28-2014, 04:37 PM:

Hello Carsten,

I was not aware of the feature you mention, where can I found more? Installation manual?

Thanks

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 01-29-2014, 08:04 AM:

Hi Marco,

you mean the 'automation' outside of playlists feature? I can't give exact quotes, part of that is in the Doremi installation manuals, part of it in update notifications, part of it in techbulletins. Think of it as variants of the server firealarm features. That is another GPIO/automation function that HAS to work outside of show playing or user actions.

If you mean a function to start playlists without a projector connection - that is just something I would LIKE to have, not something I have actually seen on a Doremi or Dolby. There are certainly pro's and con's for that idea.

- Carsten

Posted by Steven J Hart (Member # 2340) on 01-29-2014, 09:03 AM:

I use my GDC server for all automation tasks. I use the "schedule" feature under the automation system. it is set up to take the projector off standby, turn the lamp on and start the pre-show on a daily schedule. 6:50 pm, 6:55 pm and 7:00 pm respectively. Then the daily show schedule takes over and starts the show automatically at 7:30. The server also handles all house lighting cues and HVAC temperature settings through a jnior interface. I thought this was the normal (and very easy) way to run shows. Am I missing the point of this post or can other servers not handle these tasks?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-29-2014, 10:34 PM:

quote: Steve Guttag
We don't just issue it as a "you'll have it our way." We do often start out with a set template for them to work from but it will often be changed to suit the exhibitor since they are all different.

Thats something ya pretty much have to do if you use the box that way unless you advertise that it's a Maxi-8 or similar when you sell it. Many a theater owner is probably satisfied with just that since he is used to it. Every theater is different but it factually cancels out any easy changes on the fly and certainly leaves out any possibility for any nicluded Showmanship on the part of the theater owner. That would include slightly different settings based on the film one is running. I'll never install a fixed automation with digital... ever! I'll send you the job Steve G.

Steve H., It is more difficult to do on some other servers because some servers(I won't name names here) won't directly interface with other brands of gear..., etc. So ya have to have an outboard automation to control those. Two brands that are out there are very universal in connecting any piece of outboard gear on the ethernet itself. Literally you'd only need to interface the dimmer some how... through GPIO or though an eCNA. I wish dimmer manufacturers like Kelmar would come out with a direct ethernet interface for their dimmers (thats not a black box interface). It's 2014 for christ sake! The entertainment lighting industry has had ethernet (Not DMX) interface options for almost a decade now. That way everything could communicate over the network. No automation required except whats available in the server. Makes it clean and simple.

Mark

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 01-30-2014, 03:30 AM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Every theater is different but it factually cancels out any easy changes on the fly and certainly leaves out any possibility for any nicluded Showmanship on the part of the theater owner.

I'm confused as to how having an automation leaves out the possibility of showmanship. Can't the showmanship that the person wants... be included in the automation? There must be something more you're alluding to.

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
That would include slightly different settings based on the film one is running.

And if it's a good automation, one could add a program for that or am I wrong?

And having an automation that normally does everything doesn't completely remove the possibility of doing things manually if you want it set a certain way for that show, right?

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 01-30-2014, 06:12 AM:

There are certainly pro's and con's for 'external' and internal automation.

What Mark means, and I second that, is that external devices add complexity in a less apprehensive user interface, and with a need to coordinate external and sever based cues/signals. In simpler words, you have to watch and configure 'two' devices instead of one. For smaller operations, single screens, etc., doing as much as possible with the server functions seems to be the better option. I know a lot of cinemas where projectionists do not touch their dedicated automation systems unnecessary often. The software/GUI approach of the servers is just easier for them.

- Carsten

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-30-2014, 11:20 AM:

I haven't seen any showmanship issues in any of our systems. We have a small town twin with waterfall curtains and everything...everything is timed just so and they can still place their cues to accommodate any movie they want.

I'm sticking with an external automation for automation...it is cleaner and easier for all concerned...very minimal cues for the show too.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-30-2014, 12:05 PM:

IMHO Showmanship has to include being able to taylor everythng about the operation of your theater based on the movie you're playing. Back in the days whewn Showmanship was a big deal they were quite specific on how a film should be presented... when the curtain should open full, what level the lights were to be at and when, etc, etc. Sure you can do that with fixed automation but not very easily or inexpensively. Heck, if someone ever gets their act together and brings in ethernet controled light dimmers then automation boxes will be a thing of the past. Fixed automation certainly represents job security for the technician though because every change a theater owner wants is gonna have to be done by the technician. Where as a flexible fully equipped theater is best served by it's own staff.

What steve is also overlooking is that when cueing on the time line of a server it can also be done with very minimal cues. In short, you're really don't have to even use cues at all per say. You're usng short shows containing the cues. "Scope Show Start", "Flat Show Start", "Blew Rae Start' "Preshow Start", "Show end". And if ya wanna be really cool "Intermission Begin" And "Intermission End".

Or one can certainly use seperate individual cues as the show is built up if one wants to, they are right there in front of you! I see about half and half among my customers going each way. No fixed operation automations any place. Those went to the dump with the old film equipment.

Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-30-2014, 02:30 PM:

It has nothing to do with job security...it has to do with reliability, repeatability and...in the end, showmanship. Each show is perfect...perfectly timed, perfectly executed. There is nothing that stops the end user from doing discrete commands but using the automation certainly simplifies it a lot and allows each person to put on an equivalent show.

Even our Ethernet based dimmers (e.g. Lutron) use the eCNA automation in our systems. Eprad also has their own dimmers that can be part of the automation (eCNA10).

To each their own, I guess.