Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Dolby DSS200 Serial Automation

This is topic Dolby DSS200 Serial Automation - Cues not updating in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 02-22-2014, 05:34 PM:

Just added some new cues -- they're not showing up in the build environment.

Also modified some existing ones -- changes not showing up in the build environment. Old names are still there, and I've also confirmed that the DSS200 is still transmitting the old serial strings.

In other words, the changes did not take effect in the build environment, even though they appear edited in the serial automation setup area.

Rebooting the DSS does not resolve this issue.

Also tried exporting/importing the serial cues. Does not help.

Any ideas?

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 02-22-2014, 06:20 PM:

Are you using another server in TMS mode, or a DSL100?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-22-2014, 06:58 PM:

What version of Dolby software are you running?

When you export the cues...did you look in the file? If so, how many cues are in that file? Even if you delete them in the GUI, they don't leave the server. There is an arbitrary 50-cue limit before system 4.4.2 or maybe 4.5...I forget when the change was made to get rid of the silly limit.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 02-22-2014, 09:29 PM:

Pete, just the DSS200.

Steve, interesting. I'm running version 4.3.5 (13).

Just saved the cues and will import to Excel at home.

Please stand by.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-22-2014, 09:31 PM:

I have had issues with the 100's not exporting and importing the serial cues and often after updates they are gone and had to be manually reentered even though they are still listed there

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 02-22-2014, 10:41 PM:

OK. I looked at the exported cues.

The file reflects the latest list of cues -- as entered -- plus a few old ones that I thought I had "deleted." There are a total of 67 records.

To clarify -- the cues in the file are NOT the cues in the build environment, which still has all the old cues, unchanged.

...now, back to the file:

Most cues are assigned a simple 5-digit number, but a few have a much longer "urn:uuid..." instead.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 02-23-2014, 04:43 AM:

I believe the way the cues are identified was changed at some point, but I would think that 4.3.5-13 was still using the non-UUID method.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-23-2014, 07:18 AM:

Manny,

I would get away from 4.3.5.13 ASAP. Of that generation, 4.3.5.9 was much more stable.

However, I do suggest moving to 4.7.1.10 at this time. 4.7.x addresses many issues and doesn't seem to add any. You'll find your cue limit issue gone, if you have an NTP source for your server, you'll find that the clock stays in sync much better, subtitle handling will be much improved, frame rates have increased (the number of ones recognized), DCI compliant...etc.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 02-23-2014, 07:54 AM:

The only downside on a cat 862 is that 4.7.x (actually 4.4 onwards) will be much slower in selecting content than 4.3.x
You may want to warn the customer before updating.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-23-2014, 09:56 AM:

It is only slower because of the DCI compliance thing. It has to check each clip so the time it takes is proportional to the number of clips in the show. Heck GDC never used to check before their version 8.

Personally, I'd like an "anticipation" time such that the show starts the check prior to the posted time so that when the time comes everything is on time. (e.g. lets say it takes about a second a clip to check and you have 15 clips...if the show is 7:00, then the DSS200 should start at 6:59:45 to allow for the checks...but alas it does not). However, with System 4.5 onwards, one can set shows down to the minute instead of 5 minutes (use Ctrl-click).

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-23-2014, 11:29 AM:

The dinosaur lives on....

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 02-23-2014, 12:37 PM:

Sure, I did not mean to say that Dolby have worsened their software, just that because of DCI everything is slower. To be honest with you maybe a little too slow on the 862 - but I haven't checked 4.7 if that has improved a little.

Doremi have slowed down with DCI versions, but not as much as Dolby did.

That being said, Dolby work, Doremi don't [Smile]

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-23-2014, 02:45 PM:

I definitely think that Dolby could do something to make it faster to check at show time...again, have an anticipation scheme to get the checks going ahead of time for a scheduled show. GDC checks faster than Dolby too.

With a CAT745, it is practically instant on the checks.

However, I haven't found anything as reliable as a CAT862 system...they just work for us. Their service record (replacements and such) are also way above everything else.

I don't think that 4.7 speeds up the "Checking Licenses" thing at all. It seems about the same as 4.4

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 02-23-2014, 06:22 PM:

Reliability-wise, I agree, besides some WSOD every now and then

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-23-2014, 08:17 PM:

They'll get the content search speed back up eventually... GDC had that same issue on early 8.01 Build whatevers and now they search almost instantly starting at Build 131. I will definately admit that 4.7.whatever.whatever is a drastic improvement over 4.5.whatever.whatever. I already have it running on all the Dolbys I service.

Mark

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 02-23-2014, 11:33 PM:

Thanks for all the info. I'll be speaking with Dolby this week.

Related: I called Dolby about a different issue last week and I think I was told that 4.6.6 was the last free update.

What's so special about 4.7 that they're charging for it?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-24-2014, 12:49 AM:

There was no 4.6.6...there was a 4.6.1

Dolby's stated policy has been three years of free software support with the purchase of the server.

Whereas I present the update to 4.7 as a bug fix, not a feature enhancement (allows the clock to run on time much better) and has the Enigma log fetching routine, I would think you can make the case if they are denying you the update cost-free.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 02-24-2014, 01:11 PM:

4.7.1's major feature is the DSP100 becoming DCI compliant. 4.7.x's major feature is HDMI availability on cat 745.

Re. NTP, it's just a parameter added to the ntp.conf file which reduces the maximum pool time, but as someone else pointed out NTP works perfectly if it's properly implemented. This is just a workaround.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-24-2014, 02:36 PM:

Don't forget about the Enigma log feature...that has been absolutely vital to me...it has already saved half a dozen Enigmas from bricking on me.

There are the frame rate additions to. The CAT745 goes up to 120fps and now recognizes 30fps (which is handy for home-grown videos).

There are subtitle fixes too plus a gaggle of other bug fixes. 4.7.0 and 4.7.1 have be rock solid for us...the same could not be said for 4.5 and 4.6.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 02-24-2014, 04:40 PM:

Well, I consider 4.6.1-4 quite solid, if you say 4.7 is even better I'd start playing with it! And please, do not compare 4.6 with 4.5! 4.5 is evil!

Those Enigma feature, is that confirmed then? Last time I heard it was only a rumor. Is there any documentation about it? Does it need Enigma 1.7? If so, what about Barco?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-24-2014, 04:49 PM:

Yes, 4.7 is more reliable than 4.6.1.4...we tested it very thoroughly with both Dolby TMS systems as well as 3rd party. While 4.6.1 was the best of that group...4.6.0 was as evil as 4.5 and honestly 4.6.1 still had lingering issues.

The Enigma log feature is a fact...not a rumor. From the CLI and in the scripts folder you activate it (it is detailed in the release notes for 4.7.0 and 4.7.1). It does work as I've taken "almost full" to no problems. It works with Enigma 1.6

4.7 is the first time I've been willing to move non-VPF people off of 4.3.5.9.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 02-24-2014, 05:16 PM:

Ah ok, I saw it but I thought it was similar to the Doremi "purge" button, which has never recovered an Enigma to me.

Good to know it actually works, thanks. And thanks for sharing your tests on 4.7.1, much appreciated.

I always liked 4.6.1-4 because, as you said, it was the best of the group if you HAD to move away from 4.3.5-13. It's not perfect but not too bad. What is your experience with HDMI? I only had a chance to test one source on a BETA 4.7 release and it wouldn't work!

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 02-24-2014, 07:57 PM:

Maybe that's why Dolby bought Doremi - to get an IMB with a working HDMI after struggling with it for 2 years?

- Carsten

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 02-25-2014, 03:27 AM:

I wouldn't say the Doremi IMB's HDMI is working!

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 02-25-2014, 03:35 AM:

Me neither Marco!

I've had better repeatable results with Dolby HDMI than Doremi. What I mean is, neither of them are perfect, but I've found that Dolby is at least repeatable. I've got Doremi sites in the situation where a source will work find on say screen 1, but that same source won't work on screen 3's identical hardware.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 02-25-2014, 04:02 AM:

... and it works again after x reboots, correct?

(x=stupid number of times)

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-25-2014, 05:56 AM:

I only have one site using the HDMI ports at the moment. I would never use them over DVI ports if the projector has them. Why make it a two step thing where you have to change the projector channel/title/macro to get the color space and also configure a server to play something it has nothing to do with?

In the site we have the HDMI ports active...zero problems thus far. It is only connected to a BluRay player...which handles their preshow and alternative content.

It does take numerous seconds to change modes between "server" and "HDMI" or back. But it does work as advertised.

4.3.5.13 was not the best version of 4.3...4.3.5.9 was the most stable, by far. In the day, I backed many systems down to 4.3.5.9 to stop oddities. Just strange things that would happen at irregular intervals...automation cues that may not fire...that sort of thing. I probably only have a handful of 4.3.5.9 systems left...but they are now all slated for 4.7.1 on the next update cycle.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 02-25-2014, 06:49 AM:

On a Doremi you can set the IMB to take care of the colour space conversion so the same D-Cinema macros on the projector can be used - sort of, Scope will still need a different active area.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 02-25-2014, 01:33 PM:

quote:
I wouldn't say the Doremi IMB's HDMI is working!

Oh well, for most of the time during the last three years it was at least working (with audio passthrough), while Dolbys was sitting idle. Wondering what it takes to enable an interface that is used on every cheap commodity gear. As the Dolby IMB is OEM'd from USL, wondering wether it's Dolby's job to polish the firmware, or wether USL is still working on the firmware. And what that would mean for USLs own IMB/IMS software...

- Carsten

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 02-25-2014, 02:04 PM:

The HDMI on the IMB has become critical only when 0.69" were released (=no DVI inputs). Before that, and on any other projector, as Steve said, the projector's DVI is a much more reliable and effective solution.

In other words, yes Dolby were late on HDMI but I can's see it as a massive downside considering that the 745 worked much better than the Doremi IMB - IMHO.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 02-25-2014, 05:22 PM:

Steve, I mis-remembered the version number -- he said the last free version was 4.4.2 (10).

Waiting to hear back from Dolby. Will update when a solution (or workaround) is determined.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-26-2014, 12:25 AM:

Actually, Dolby now owns the CAT745 now...including manufacture and software support. As I understand it...USL's new IMS is made by USL but clearly the same IMB portion with a daughter board to form the IMS...however the software is USLs. Kind of like building a generic computer and loading different OSes on it.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 03-09-2014, 11:10 PM:

Steve -- I updated to 4.7.1.10 and all is well.

Thanks.