Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Laser-powered Dolby 3D

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Posted by Antti Nayha (Member # 4980) on 03-03-2014, 02:32 PM:

Wow. Just a few days after some discussion here, here's Christie's press release. Should be no problem reaching 14 fL in 3D with this one.

quote:
Christie to Demo Breakthrough 3D Cinema Technology for Premium Cinema Experiences with Latest “6-Primary” 4K Laser Projector
Fiber-coupled, 6-primary projection system architecture ideally suited for immersive 3D experiences including Dolby 3D

Christie® today announced upcoming demonstrations of the world’s most advanced laser projection architecture and Dolby® 3D, to be held in the Christie Innovation Theaters throughout CinemaCon 2014 (Caesars Palace, March 24-27) and the National Association of Broadcasters NAB Show® (Las Vegas Convention Center, April 5-10).

Christie DLP Cinema® laser projectors using 6-Primary (6P) color laser modules, earmarked for mass production in early 2015, will show how 3D light levels, image uniformity, viewing comfort, and a sense of immersion can be vastly improved, especially when combined with advanced separation technology like Dolby 3D, versus conventional 3D systems found in cinemas around the world today.

“Recent declines in domestic 3D movie attendance are a sign that the novelty is wearing off, with audiences less willing to pay a premium for what is all too often a mediocre experience. The lackluster quality of this experience results from a number of technical limitations with current 3D system architectures, the most serious one being restricted light levels that amount to only 10-30 percent of those levels achieved for 2D presentations,” said Don Shaw, senior director, Product Management, Christie Entertainment Solutions. “Simply put, the movies are too dark, leaving audiences struggling to discern critical details that make up the image in front of them.”

“Christie’s latest laser projection technology, using 6 specific primary colors rather than filtered or polarized broad-spectrum white light, brings dramatically improved 3D efficiency to projection systems, regardless of the size of screen in premium movie theaters,” added Shaw. “We believe that this is the future of 3D cinema projection, that it is right around the corner, and that it will be a key element in boosting 3D box office revenues around the world. Our CinemaCon and NAB Show demonstrations will be the first 6P laser events available to the broad cinema community, from filmmakers to exhibitors, and reaffirms Christie’s 80-year commitment to cinema innovation, rather than ‘moving beyond digital cinema’ as some other industry players have promised.”

At least twice as efficient as today’s best 3D systems, Christie’s 6P laser projectors generate a proprietary mix of photoptically-optimized light wavelengths for each eye directly from the source, in effect eliminating the need for a highly inefficient stage of filtering or polarizing the light as it leaves the projector. The Christie demos will use Dolby® 3D glasses specifically engineered to exactly match the 6 primary laser light wavelengths to yield nearly 90 percent light efficiency.

“Their color separation based technique for 3D is well regarded as the gold standard among industry professionals, especially for its true color reproduction, compatibility with low-gain white screens, and superior crosstalk performance – only now it can be part of a system that is tremendously more light efficient,” said Shaw.

“Dolby 3D’s advanced color separation technology is ideally suited for next generation laser projectors,” said Doug Darrow, Senior Vice President, Cinema, Dolby Laboratories. “With extremely high light efficiency, nearly no crosstalk and crisp images with vibrant colors, we believe Dolby 3D combined with laser projection produces the best possible 3D viewing experience for audiences.”

“Having had the opportunity to witness an early 6P laser demo at Christie’s worldwide center for engineering, research and development in Canada, I can confidently state that this is an exciting and important innovation in 3D cinema,“ said Matt Cowan, Co-founder & Senior Technical Advisor at Entertainment Technology Consultants. “I look forward to further refinement of this technology and upcoming installation in premiere theaters around the world.”

Consistent with efforts so far in developing 3-Primary (3P) laser projectors, which Christie sees filling important needs in several, non-cinema industries, Christie laser projectors will provide industry-leading brightness (up to 72,000 Lumens per projector head), wider color gamut capabilities, higher contrast, and dramatically reduced maintenance requirements, resulting in a better experience for all applications. As part of its largest research and development program ever, Christie will continue to develop superior 6P and 3P laser projection solutions for all of its global customers.

Specific to the development of cinema laser projectors, Christie leads the industry in this area, having announced last year that it would supply and install the world’s first commercial laser projection solution for the Seattle Cinerama Theatre, and that it was the first to receive a US FDA approval of variance allowing the sale and installation of laser projectors in movie theaters and other high performance projection venues.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-03-2014, 02:43 PM:

Sounds like pretty good news to me, particularly with the projector system offering 4K resolution 3D.

Of course, there is still the matter of making Hollywood produce some movies in 4K 3D rather than the usual HDTV resolution stuff.

Obvious question: how big a screen can this projection system illuminate properly? If it can throw a 4K 3D image on a 80 foot wide screen and deliver satisfactory light levels then it could be a real game changer.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 04-04-2014, 07:55 AM:

Now Barco is also on the 6P laserpowered Dolby 3D bandwagon, first installations already within the next months. As it seems, Barcos new 4k LIP Technology will not be an initial IMAX exclusive deal.

60.000 Lumens from a single machine with little to no light loss for Dolby 3D. That's a game changer.

http://www.barco.com/de/News/Post/2014/3/24/Proud-to-present-our-4K-laser-illuminated-projector-at-CinemaCon

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'Proud to present our 4K laser-illuminated projector at CinemaCon

We are very proud to introduce our first commercially available 6P laser-illuminated projector at CinemaCon 2014. This laser projector is not only the most compact 60,000-lumen projector available, it is also the first DCI-compliant laser projector that is capable of showing 4K content at 60 fps and 3D movies in full 4K resolution. We will be installing our first 4K commercial laser projectors in the US and China during Q2 and throughout the rest of the world in Q4 2014.

The most compact 60,000-lumen projector
“We were the first to demo a high-brightness laser projector in January 2011 and again at the Moody Gardens Digital Cinema Symposium in January 2012. Since then, we have been pushing the envelope to perfect our laser projection technology and build a fully integrated solution,” comments Todd Hoddick, VP Digital Cinema at Barco. “As image quality remains a key differentiator for the cinema experience, this is at the top of our priority list when developing new technologies. Our laser projector is the most compact 60,000-lumen projector on the market and will set a new standard for image quality in the cinema industry.”

Dolby® 3D and Barco Laser3D
The Barco laser projection demo at CinemaCon will showcase a giant leap forward for cinema, captivating audiences with unparalleled image quality. “Delivering an outstanding 14 fL brightness level in 3D, nearly no crosstalk, exceptional image quality and color performance, we believe laser projectors – paired with the Dolby 3D color separation system - will wow audiences with a 3D experience like they’ve never seen before,” commented Doug Darrow, Senior Vice President, Cinema, Dolby Laboratories. “The combination of the Dolby 3D color separation technology and custom-designed Dolby 3D glasses matches the six primary laser light wavelengths of the Barco Laser3D system to enable a truly immersive viewing experience.”

10 things you'll love about Barco's laser-illuminated projector

A new image standard
By showing stunningly bright and uniform images in crisp detail – and with exceptionally rich colors and eye-popping contrast – the Barco laser projector boosts image quality, radically improving the 3D experience to make it truly astonishing.
Forget speckle
Barco’s proprietary technology minimizes image speckle – so, crisp images are guaranteed at all times, even on silver screens!
No vibrating screens required
Yes, that’s right! Thanks to our unique de-speckling technology, no extra investments in screen-vibrating systems are required to get the image right.
Razor-sharp 4K content at 60 fps
The Barco laser projector is the world’s first laser projector capable of showing 4K content at 60 fps and 3D movies in 4K at these brightness levels.
Fully integrated
Designed from the ground up, the Barco laser projector features a fully integrated system architecture with unified laser light sources that are housed within the projector.
Bringing 2D light levels to 3D
With a spectacular light output of up to 60,000 lumens, the Barco laser projector enables images to be shown just the way they were pictured by the moviemaker, for truly satisfactory 3D screenings.
Premium 3D experience with Barco Laser3D
Thanks to its integrated color 3D system, with 6-Primary (6P) color laser modules, the Barco Laser3D system maximizes 3D efficiency from a single projector, delivering constant and uniform images in excellent contrast, without lamp flicker.
Low Total Cost of Ownership
Thanks to the projector’s superior level of optical efficiency, Barco has been able to drive brightness and light levels up, while driving the total cost of ownership down. With solid-state laser technology, you no longer need to replace lamps, and they will no longer explode.
30 years of 3D expertise
With over 30 years of expertise in 3D, Barco knows how to entice moviegoers into the cinema for dazzling 3D adventures they will love to live again.
From the digital cinema pioneer and innovator
Guinness World Record holder for the brightest digital cinema projector, and market share leader in digital cinema projection, Barco has been breaking ground in the cinema industry for many years with numerous industry firsts.
See it to believe it at CinemaCon
To explore all the ways Barco is elevating the magic of the cinema experience, visit the Barco booth (#2313A) at the CinemaCon trade show in Caesars Palace Las Vegas. As part of the CinemaBarco experience, Barco will be demonstrating its laser-illuminated projector showing 4K content at 60 fps and 3D content at 48 fps during multiple sessions from Tuesday 25 March through Thursday 27 March at the Cinemark Century 16 South Point and XD theater in Las Vegas.'
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- Carsten

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 04-04-2014, 01:31 PM:

I'm confused.

I understand why a Laser system would be perfect for Dolby 3D, but "little to no loss" in 3D?

The moment you are splitting the light between two eyes, you are reducing the light down to 50%. The 6 lasers can be used all together - I guess - for 2D and 3(L) + 3(R) for 3D.
Then you have the glasses to take into account. What am I missing here?

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 04-04-2014, 01:40 PM:

There's no lossy color wheel, just two different sets of RGB light going directly into the rod.

On the playback side, the glasses are different and have less loss as well. That's all I know for now.

Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 04-04-2014, 02:32 PM:

How many DLP chips are they using?

Harold

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-04-2014, 03:20 PM:

To the best of my knowledge, just the three (and I see where you are going with this). Note, the loss is not zero nor even zero per eye in any event but one can definitely get a pretty bright picture on a large screen with it.

Note, Christie used two projectors (three primaries in each). Clearly that will double one's light as compared to a single projector.

However, this does mean that Dolby zooms from being the least efficient (8-10% at best on a single projector) to just under 50%...which puts them at the brightest of the 3Ds. Also, no silver screen so they are going to be brighter in ALL parts of the screen as compared to the polarized solutions.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 04-04-2014, 04:24 PM:

"just under 50%" makes more sense. "little to no loss" was a little confusing!

That would be great. Also considering that Dolby is one of the best systems, with great separation and does not require dreadful silver screens.

I'm really looking forward to seeing a 14fL 3D picture on a big white screen.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-04-2014, 04:37 PM:

The 50% efficiency level will help but a lot. Bot the problem of the glasses still remains. The glasses is everyone's biggest single complaint about Dolby 3-D. Even more so than the sometimes low brightness level it runs at. Both custom and disposable glasses are going to be a must if this new version is to succeed at all. I actually know of quite a few Dolby systems that have been pulled out of some very busy locations just because of the problem of having to get glasses back, broken glasses and trying to keep enough sterilized glasses available from show to show. Disposable is going to be the key to it's success.

Mark

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-04-2014, 05:04 PM:

Yup. Laser or no laser, if they would come out with disposable glasses for the current system I would be a buyer. Quite frankly I'm amazed they haven't done it yet.

Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 04-04-2014, 06:36 PM:

Interesting! If they're using 3 DLP chips, then it seems like they must be hitting each one with two different wavelengths sequentially. I'm not familiar enough with lasers, but can you turn them on and off that fast (I guess it'd be 24Hz with a 50% duty cycle). If they did 6 DLP chips, they could get double the brightness since both eyes' images would be present simultaneously. But, it'd cost more...

So... what wavelengths are being used? How is speckle being avoided?

And, on cheap glasses, I think it's just really hard to make the lenses for this. I think they're a couple of complementary optical comb filters (perhaps through a grating or something to cause cancellations at various wavelengths). The left eye gets a series of peaks and nulls. The right eye has peaks where the left eye nulls are. With broad spectrum light, all the peaks are hit. I'm guessing that with laser, they're just hitting one of the peaks in red, another in green, and another in blue.

Harold

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 04-04-2014, 06:45 PM:

The quantity of 3d glasses a cinema disposes every day is ridiculous. I appreciate the extra hassle of the reusable ones, but we live on a planet and we don't have a spare one AFAIK.

Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 04-04-2014, 07:17 PM:

We send our disposables back. I don't know what they do with them specifically, but it's marketed as recycling so........

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 04-04-2014, 07:31 PM:

My guess (based on absolutely no actual knowledge) is that they reuse the frames and replace the lenses. I base this guess on the fact that the frames are reasonably well-made but the lenses are very flimsy; by replacing the lenses they wouldn't have to worry about scratches and whatnot.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 04-04-2014, 07:36 PM:

Depends on the company involved. Some inspect, clean and repackage, some simply do material recycling.

Disposable glasses for Dolby 3D are out of the question, they are simply to expensive, even the latest foil type.

Some cinemas do well with reusables, some indeed give up Dolby and switch to disposables. Why it works in some places and not in others, I have no real idea.
At least with a standard RealD contract, you will usually pay the equivalent of a couple of reusable glasses for each showing in royalties to RealD.

Hard to believe any cinema would actually lose e.g. half a dozend reusables during every showing.

Of course, that doesn't apply to outright buy systems with disposable glasses.

- Carsten

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-04-2014, 10:25 PM:

I don't mind the collecting so much, it's the washing that's a hassle. We have "hard water" here and the wash process leaves spots on the glasses. We wipe'em down after every wash. I've tried quite a few different things in the water to minimize the spots, and sometimes we'll get lucky and have a load that's basically spot-free, but it's rare. I'm not sure why that is.

I'd think disposable Dolby glasses could be made cheap enough if the quantity was in the hundreds of millions, the way it is with Real D.

Posted by Peter Castle (Member # 1997) on 04-05-2014, 12:48 AM:

One of the things to note about Christie's 6P solution is that they are not standard Dolby 3D glasses they are using. The colour frequencies of the lasers are different to the filters used in Dolby 3D. The glasses are just being made for Christie by Dolby (or whoever Dolby uses).

At Cinemacon, it took me quite a long conversation with the Christie rep to realise that the individual projectors only have 3 lasers in them and that the 6P was just hype. Any company making 3-laser projectors could just as easily make matched pairs of projectors with different frequency lasers.

The resulting image was quite good at the increased brightness - the files had been adjusted for the higher lumens - but I'm still in the active glasses camp.

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 04-05-2014, 05:32 AM:

quote: Marco Giustini
The quantity of 3d glasses a cinema disposes every day is ridiculous. I appreciate the extra hassle of the reusable ones, but we live on a planet and we don't have a spare one AFAIK.

I'm all for reuse/recycling where it makes sense but lets not be overly dramatic. I don't think people comprehend how big the earth is and how little space things like waste really take up. There was a show I saw a few years ago that showed that all the waste produced by the USA (without recycling) for the next couple of hundred years could fit on one landfill that just made a small square in the middle of a state on the map they showed.

Plus, even if used 3D glasses were just thrown randomly on the ground, it would look like shit (or look like Mumbai) but it wouldn't "destroy the earth."

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 04-05-2014, 05:40 AM:

Mike,

I'm sure a water softener is perfectly capable of removing the limescale from any water, you just need the right device and the right dosage of products.
The rest is massively OT so I will just say that AFAIK human beings have not planned to leave earth yet and we may be all living on this planet for more than a couple of centuries.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 04-05-2014, 07:35 AM:

quote: Peter Castle
One of the things to note about Christie's 6P solution is that they are not standard Dolby 3D glasses they are using. The colour frequencies of the lasers are different to the filters used in Dolby 3D. The glasses are just being made for Christie by Dolby (or whoever Dolby uses).

This is the same for Barcos Dolby 3D as well. As is for Sonys Dolby 3D solution, they all need special tailored filters for the specific spectrum.
Actually these manufacturers wouldn't even need to go with Dolby, I think they are only doing it to have a brand attached to it. Though it may be that Dolby has exclusive rights for Infitec technology in cinemas. However, I wouldn't even be sure if LIP based color separation would fall under the Infitec patent.

These glasses are actually being made by Iridian Spectral Technologies in Ontario.

- Carsten

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 04-05-2014, 11:03 AM:

Didn't Panavision use the same technology?

Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 04-05-2014, 11:42 AM:

Is this a two projector system? 3 different lasers per projector for a total of 6 wavelengths? Does anyone know the wavelengths being used? Are all laser-based projectors using the same wavelengths? What did they do to get rid of speckle? Is the FDA fine with these?

Yhanks!

Harold

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-05-2014, 05:14 PM:

Marco,

Yes... Panavision used a similar technology for their 3-D system for both film and digital but it was considerably more efficient than the standard Dolby 3-D system is. I do not know who made the filters for Panavision.

Mark

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 04-07-2014, 05:58 PM:

quote: Lyle Romer
There was a show I saw a few years ago that showed that all the waste produced by the USA (without recycling) for the next couple of hundred years could fit on one landfill that just made a small square in the middle of a state on the map they showed.

I guess the big deal with recycling isn't the amount of space it takes up if you dump your waste somewhere. If it isn't toxic and somewhat stable, someone will always be in need for some cheap landfill too... And if you incinerate it at high temperatures, the volume will even shrink further.

Recycling is much more about the fact that resources aren't endless and the plastics used in 3D polarizer glasses belong to the kind of materials that aren't endlessly available and are mostly easily recyclable with modern processes.

What I don't understand is why Dolby doesn't provide an adequate cleaning solution themselves? Why don't they offer some kind of dishwasher, trays that allow easy stacking and loading, cleaning and water softening agent that's proven to work and doesn't leave all kinds of nasty stains that need additional manual cleaning?

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 04-07-2014, 06:57 PM:

Hi Harold,

nothing is standardized yet for the LIPs, though through common physical conditions it may be that different manufacturers would use identical wavelenghts.

As far as I know, Barco uses a single projector emitting 6 wavelengths, while Christie uses a dual projector setup. Barco is probably able to use both RGB triples in parallel for 2D if needed.

Speckle is reduced by using different approaches. One major is 'mixing' or 'clustering' - using multiple laser light sources.

Regarding the FDA - they are working on it. NEC has a smaller projector with just enough power to not fall under regulations. The few existing prototype installations are operating under exemption rules.

http://lipainfo.org/

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 04-08-2014, 05:25 AM:

quote: Marcel Birgelen
Recycling is much more about the fact that resources aren't endless and the plastics used in 3D polarizer glasses belong to the kind of materials that aren't endlessly available and are mostly easily recyclable with modern processes.

Well, there are "bio-plastics" made from things like corn. I'm not anti-recycling, I am just bothered when people make it sound like we will destroy the earth if we don't recycle. Metals especially are a shame not to recycle every bit because they are theoretically infinitely recyclable and it takes much less energy to do so than to make new metal from ore. Unfortunately, recycling plastics is largely a one generation type thing where it is used for things like floor mats or parking lot stops.

quote: Marcel Birgelen
What I don't understand is why Dolby doesn't provide an adequate cleaning solution themselves? Why don't they offer some kind of dishwasher, trays that allow easy stacking and loading, cleaning and water softening agent that's proven to work and doesn't leave all kinds of nasty stains that need additional manual cleaning?

I've never understood why they didn't do this at the beginning. I'm sure they could design a machine that lets you just dump the glasses in and it stacks them in a tray for you. If Dolby had disposable glasses, they would have the best 3D solution hands down. Especially for a large/busy complex, collecting and cleaning the glasses is a real pain.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 04-08-2014, 09:52 AM:

This answers the question I had all along with Dolby 3D and laser light source projectors.

Dolby works by applying the principle that human vision works in three colors but does not differentiate much within each of the colors. Thus, using special filters, they can give one eye a sliver of the red spectrum, a sliver of the green and a sliver of the blue while the other eye gets a different part of the red spectrum, a different part of the green, and a different part of the blue. Each eye gets full RGB color but different wavelengths and thus the filter glasses can separate the colors and deliver different images to each eye.

The issue for laser is that laser light is mono chromatic. Three lasers give you RGB but only one point on the spectrum for each color. So by using six lasers, two different reds, two different, greens and two different blues, the problems is neatly solved and increases brightness to boot. Nice.

Posted by David Buckley (Member # 2600) on 04-08-2014, 07:59 PM:

Thank you Steve for that clear explanation of how Dolby 3D works.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 04-08-2014, 11:48 PM:

Dolby do recommend a couple of dishwashers and the cleaning procedure (and detergernts) has been approved to work well with their glasses. They also designed a bespoke tray.
As far as I know if the proper procedure is followed and the right amount of chemicals is used, they work quite well.