Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: How many theaters are receiving their content via satellite now?

This is topic How many theaters are receiving their content via satellite now? in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by William Kucharski (Member # 7246) on 03-11-2014, 12:28 AM:

I was talking to the people at my local AMC and they said as part of a "test program" they haven't been receiving DCPs on hard drive at all since the beginning of the year - all their content has been satellite delivered and they haven't had any issues yet.

I'm just curious as to whether the transition as begun en masse or if such distribution is still in the beta phase.

Posted by Vegard Olsen (Member # 8102) on 03-15-2014, 08:31 AM:

Satellite is old school. In much of Europe DCPs are delivered via broadband.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 03-15-2014, 09:22 AM:

'Much of Europe'? ;-)

I suggest reading issue 23 of CinemaTechnologyMagazine to get the whole picture:

http://emag.cinematechnologymagazine.com/archives.aspx

At least the heart of 'old europe' is still shipping around hard drives. And will do so for a while.

- Carsten

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 03-15-2014, 09:26 PM:

Several of the theaters I serviced here in NM have already installed and are operating via the satellite servers for both trailer and feature DCPs and special content like the Met operas. Just about all of the screens I handled used the Cinedigm LMS package. They revert to obtaining physical road drives only if the sat servers go down.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-16-2014, 12:06 PM:

I feel the Satellite delivery method is a little premature on the playing field. In fact it was in place and then abandoned once already by all the major distributers. Now it is back again. I like the broadband idea much better than satellite delivery. A good T1 line would be way faster and cheaper than satellite delivery. And with more and more areas installing fiber optics that speed will only increase beyond what copper lines can do.

And interestingly, don't have a single customer that is even remotely interested in satellite delivery. I have asked them.

Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-16-2014, 02:39 PM:

We have customers currently receiving ScreenVision ads via DSL and, I think, Satellite in some locations (we didn't do the installation of that part). It has been working out quite well in those locations.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-16-2014, 02:47 PM:

Preshow content isn't anywhere near the size of DCPs, so that's easy to transmit over a DSL or T1 line.

Moving a large package of a few hundred gigs through a T1 line won't be as fast as you think Mark.

Regardless we've got a VERY large amount of theaters receiving content via satellite and we have never had an issue. Physical hard drives have proven to be FAR less reliable than a satellite transmission due to the way people mishandle them.

Posted by Steve Moore (Member # 4753) on 03-16-2014, 03:47 PM:

I'm not aware of many in the UK with sat or cable delivery; still mostly hard drive. In the last year I have received one faulty hard drive, which was physically smashed... and i knew this before i opened the box as is had a nice sticker stuck to the transit case saying so!

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 03-16-2014, 04:05 PM:

If you read that issue of cinema technology magazine I linked to above, you will be surprised how different distribution is working world wide. Heck, there is even HongKong with a very fast local fibre network all cinemas are on - but they transfer discs on bikes around because there are only a few hundred or thousand metres between each cinema there and bike is still faster than fibre. Neither satellite nor broadband transfers directly onto the playout servers, so the internal transfer to/from the LMS takes additional time. Picking the drive from the bike courier and popping it into a server is still faster and gives a direct 'it's there and done' feedback.

I guess the new DCDC satellite distribution system for north america now will be a game changer. You simply need a certain amount of deliveries/parttakers for the system to gain traction. Putting a dish onto your roof to receive two features a month is just not worth the hassle. It even makes things more complicated because you have to control multiple delivery channels for fulfillment. Some regions work well with hard discs, some with satellite, some with broadband. Most are still struggling to find the best method.

- Carsten

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-16-2014, 09:34 PM:

I've had almost no issues with hard drives. Three or Four bad ones in about 6 years. All were replaced same day or by the next morning and all arrived early enough that a failed drive was irrelevant.

Mark

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 03-16-2014, 10:02 PM:

quote: Carsten Kurz
Neither satellite nor broadband transfers directly onto the playout servers, so the internal transfer to/from the LMS takes additional time. Picking the drive from the bike courier and popping it into a server is still faster and gives a direct 'it's there and done' feedback.

Sure, but how are those hard drives getting to the courier? I think they're either being shipped in with the data already on them OR they've got blank ones in a warehouse in-town that they load from something sent over the net. I'd think that unless you're talking about movies that are already made in-town that don't need shipping, networked would be quicker.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 03-17-2014, 05:03 AM:

I guess that these cinemas simply demand hard drives instead of network transfers because it works better for them with their interchange model.

- Carsten

Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 03-18-2014, 01:35 PM:

If I'm doing the math right, it would take over 151 hours to transfer 100 GB on a 1.5 Mbps T1 line. 15 Mbps cable internet connections are fairly commonplace, but even with that, you're talking 15 hours per 100 GB.

Many cable connections have great burst rates, but I would imagine that even a business-class line would not deliver full-speed downloads 24/7 because of the shared aspect of cable connections. How many locations can obtain a DSL connection > 10 Mbps?

Assuming that the target connection is fast enough to transfer a week's worth of movies in less than a week, where is the data coming from? That other end is going to have to be fast enough to handle potentially thousands of theaters downloading terabytes of data each week. It would all but require Akamai-style servers to be installed at strategic locations around the country, similar to what Netflix is doing, in order to ensure decent throughput capability.

For that reason, I can see why satellite transmission is attractive. The download speeds that I found weren't spectacular (best was around 12 Mbps), and the upload speeds are pretty poor, but my understanding of satellite data broadcasting is that it can be uplinked once and then broadcast to multiple destinations, which greatly eases the burden on the supply side.

For those with satellite connections, do you know what speeds you are getting?

There is great potential in creating a mesh network for distributing these data files, but I would imagine nearly every studio head would stop listening as soon as they make the connection to torrents and the association of illegal downloading with that technology.

I think an efficient distribution scheme could be created by interconnecting those thousands of theaters in a secure mesh network. Such a scheme could be used in conjunction with satellite delivery service or any other delivery method to provide for enhanced reliability (protecting against rain-fade and satellite outages, for example).

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 03-18-2014, 03:18 PM:

Those dedicated SAT providers utilize a full transponder, some even bundle two - remember, compared to individual sat IP connections, this is again 'broadcast', so they do not need to segment channels for individuals. Typical transfer bandwith can reach 60-120MBit/s. That's quite something.

Those countries which use broadband connections usually have limited coverage need and dedicated networks for content transfer. The only countries I know using broadband on a large scale for movie distribution are norway and the netherlands - rather small countries.

Again, read that issue of cinematechnologymagazine, you will see that all of your potential issues are catered for there. E.g. 'edge servers' for broadband.

- Carsten

Posted by Edward Havens (Member # 4715) on 03-18-2014, 03:46 PM:

I had my first satellite delivery system (Technicolor) installed in 2011, and a second (Deluxe) installed the following year. The DCDC system replaced both in 2013.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-14-2014, 03:02 PM:

I've been contacted by DCDC and they want to set up a phone call on Friday to discuss the satellite system. I talked to our booker and he's all for it. He is also part owner of a company that manages several multiplexes in Washington, and they are using the DCDC system and love it. So it seems like a good thing to me.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-14-2014, 04:57 PM:

The biggest issue I have is the refusal to make the content available after 3 weeks from break which makes it a non starter for second run houses

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-14-2014, 05:57 PM:

This is one of the questions I have about that....so do you have to have a KDM to move content over from the capture server to the theater's main server? I was wondering if, let's say we plan to play Star Wars VII but not till week 4, can we move that show over to the server and just hold it there until it actually plays?

Posted by Andrew Thomas (Member # 7000) on 06-11-2014, 10:32 AM:

Anybody have contact info for DCDC? I sent an e-mail to their general inbox but haven't heard anything.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 06-11-2014, 12:16 PM:

You could write to Randy Blotky -- here is his email address (altered to keep spambots from picking it up)

randyblotky at dcdcnetwork dot com

Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 06-12-2014, 01:46 AM:

Our DCDC rack has been installed, unsure when transfers with this method will start.