Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Flickering on Barco 2k Projector

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Posted by Allan Riddelll (Member # 5090) on 04-06-2014, 05:42 AM:

For some time now we have been experiencing some light flicker on our Barco Projector. Lamps used are Osrams and are well within their operating limits. Although the problem is not particularly serious, its more noticable on movies with daylight scenes and can be somewhat annoying. any suggestions to rectify the situation would be appreciated. Incidentally, no error codes have been generated and the rear status light is in its normal green.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 04-06-2014, 09:00 AM:

What projector model, what lamp model?
First step - install a new lamp. No flicker = bad lamp. Still flickering = possibly a projector problem (or another bad lamp).
Note that Osram lamps have been troublesome in digital projectors - getting one to warranty hours without flicker or striking problems is considered by many to be unusual. The general consensus is that (currently - the situation may change) Ushio lamps are preferable, particularly high wattage (4kW+).

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 04-06-2014, 10:09 AM:

Is it possible the flickering you are seeing is caused by the fan or the lens assembly being loose?

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 04-06-2014, 10:37 AM:

Somtimes it's possible by looking through air vents on the projector housing or
in the 'cracks' around access doors to determine if the flicker is actually originating
in the blub or elsewhere in the projector. It helps if you have all the room lights off
when you are looking.

I did this recently to track down flicker in an NEC projector and it
saved me the time & trouble of changing out the bulb since, in my
case, the flicker was being generated somewhere else.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 04-06-2014, 04:08 PM:

Where was it generated?

Posted by Allan Riddelll (Member # 5090) on 04-07-2014, 08:12 AM:

Further to my previous initial comment. Projector is Barco DP2K 20C. Lamp is running at 4140w from a maximum of 4200 so is virtually at its full potential. Running time is 763 hours out of a 1100 maximum.

Posted by Peter Hall (Member # 695) on 04-07-2014, 11:05 AM:

Hi Allen

Looks like the lamp is nearing the end of it's life - you are brave running an old lamp at such a high power. Is the projection angle flat ? - if not, or even if so, you might want to rotate the lamps perhaps 3x during their life. I am guessing that a new lamp will fix your flicker

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-07-2014, 11:40 AM:

Stop using Osram and report back how many problems you have. I can't say it enough...if you use Osram, you should EXPECT problems...they are that bad.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 04-09-2014, 08:23 PM:

Before we switched to USHIO DXL-40BAF, those OSRAM DP4000 bulbs were horrible since I could never get my thousand hours out of them-they'd be coal black with 700 hrs on them and I had a good 800cfms going up the stack.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 04-09-2014, 10:39 PM:

Just to echo what the others are saying, we have been using Christie (now Ushio) 3K bulbs since day ones in 2D houses and Ushio 4K bulbs in 3D houses. To date I haven't had a single bulb that wasn't still working fine at warranty hours. A couple of the 4K bulbs have shown a very slight darkening of the glass, but no flickering or problems striking.

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 04-11-2014, 06:32 AM:

Your problem is Osram. They are rubbish. I had three that came with my three Barco's and all three failed before their warranted time. I then went back to using Ushio's like I have done since the year dot. No trouble at all.

Posted by Mike Babb (Member # 1379) on 04-11-2014, 08:45 PM:

If the bulb is out of alignment or hot spotted you can sometimes see flicker, and proper alignment will take care of it.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-11-2014, 11:03 PM:

And if the lamp is pristine, in precise alignment, and otherwise perfect but bears the Osram name...it will do all sorts of things...though not always light.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 04-11-2014, 11:14 PM:

....even when you pop a new bulb in a lamphouse. They'll strike for one time then die.

I thought I blew a PSG (igniter) in a 20C after putting in a new OSRAM, but decided to do a test trail with an old USHIO that I still had - USHIO fired up with no problems.

Sent the OSRAM back for a warranty return. Did get a new OSRAM, but that one only lasted 800 hrs before hard and failed strike issues were coming to the surface.

We gripe on the OSRAMS, but nothing can be as bad as the Philips bulbs in a SONY twin lens projector - the 320 unit.

Philips XDC-4200S have the 700 warranty for usage in the twin lens units, but after 300 hrs, the lumens definitely drop to half of their brightness and the envelopes are quite dark by the time of the pull.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 04-11-2014, 11:46 PM:

It is funny how things change with different configurations. We got great performance/life from of Osram 3K bulbs in a Xetron 35mm lamp house.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-12-2014, 09:08 AM:

You got lucky. I've been in this game for over 30 years...Osrams have sucked for at least 3 decades and heading on 4. As a chain, we were using Osrams...they blew up, they came with anodes rolling around in the envelope (no kidding), they came exploded...Osram blamed "in-rush current" for all of their failures, they blamed shipping companies for their stupid/strange and every changing packing...We switched to Christie (Ushio) and guess...what...all of our "shipping" problems and all of our "in-rush" problems all vanished!

Will you find a Christie/Ushio lamp that doesn't perform well? Sure...they all have their bad batches...but as compared to Osram...they are not in the same ballpark, same state or same planet.

Think you had good luck with Osram...I had (and still have) a customer that was using Osrams before we started servicing them...they were using Osrams and continued to use them after we started...see...they got a good deal on them...in one console they never got the hours like in the other one (there was a reason for that)...so I told them...let us have the "bad" console and will put in a Christie to run head to head on their Osram (same size lamp, same hours...etc.). In the "bad" console we lapped the Osram...that is, out lasted and got way beyond what the other Osram could do. No matter what you got, hours wise on the Osram, the Christie would have likely doubled it.

While there are stanch defenders of Osrams, the number of people that will bank on the Christie/Ushio have got to double/triple or quadruple them. There is a reason...and it isn't because they are the cheapest...in fact, they are often the highest cost/lamp...but typically the lowest cost/hour...because they last and look REALLY good coming out. They also hold their brightness better...their envelopes don't darken like the others...the electrodes are designed better...they are just better than anyone else.

Osrams are junk, it cannot be overstated.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 04-12-2014, 12:35 PM:

My experience is similar to what Steve describes. In fact, I was quite happy with Osrams till 2005-ish, then the 7kW lamps were never reaching their life and the 4kW were often flickering too early. But it looks like now things have worsened.

I also had a detached anode, but it detached when the lamp was being replaced!

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 04-12-2014, 01:27 PM:

The only Osram bulb we had good success with was the 3K XBO. We tried the equivelant 2K in our Christie lamp houses, and those never reached their warranty life. Wound up always using the Christie 2K. Conversely, around 1999, we were not getting good life out of the Christie 3K, which is why we went to the Osrams.

Although this will probably earn frowns, we were often getting 4000-5000 hours on those Osram 3K XBO's running at 75-80%. The reason we kept them in is because they still had a bright, stable light with no sign of darkening at 3000 hours. Over about a 10 year period, I think we only 1-2 of these Osram bulbs not make it to 3K hours between 7 Xetron lamp houses. That's a sample size of around 50 bulbs.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-12-2014, 05:48 PM:

I don't know why people would frown. Nobody is rooting for failure. Few things have consistently disappointed me as Osram has in 34 years.

To tell stories...I changed out a 3K Christie with 15,000 hours on it. It was the most nervous I've ever felt changing a lamp. It was changed because it developed a flicker. I guess after how many years and 15,000 hours, it was entitled to flicker. At first, I was thinking someone didn't fill out the lamphouse card and that it had been changed...but no...it was the original lamp from when the system went in. There serial numbers matched.

But as a dealer...honestly...Christie always got 2-3X warranty life...it was very consistent. People would be disappointed if it only made it to just past warranty. Often, there was extenuating circumstances.

I alluded to one above in one of my Osram/Christie shootouts...I highly overlooked factor in xenon power supplies is the filter capacitor life. Electrolytics do NOT last for ever. They age even on the shelf. That is a reason there is a date code on them. If they are over 10-years old, change em. A big tell is to look at the lamp after it comes out...if the electrodes are all snotted up, odds are you have either incoming power issues or your capacitor(s) are not doing their job anymore. It is relatively cheap and almost always improves lamp life.

OSRAM: On Shatter, Replace Another Mirror

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 04-12-2014, 11:24 PM:

..and I bet when you popped the Christie bulb with 15K hours on it, it just simply shattered instead of a good loud "pop!"

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 04-13-2014, 04:54 AM:

Well, there is an upside with Osram then. Reflectors do lose efficiency over time. With Osrams, you get a new reflector every now and then! [Smile]

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-13-2014, 05:25 AM:

Only Sometimes Runs Another Movie.