Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: ACS-2048 Scaler

This is topic ACS-2048 Scaler in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=001877

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-27-2014, 04:50 PM:

Barco has apparently discontinued this scalar and they are now offering the high end Geffen in it's place, they even sell a complete cable kit to go along with it. I have never been impressed by Geffen's smaller scalar's which seem to leave a lot to be desired. Has anyone used this new Geffen yet and what is your opinion of it?

Thanks!
Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-27-2014, 06:12 PM:

Huh? Are you sure Mark?

http://www.barco.com/en/Products-Solutions/Options-accessories/Other/Alternative-content-switcher.aspx

Barco is not showing it as discontinued. Christie is who sells the Gefen scalers (of the projector manufactures) as does Film-Tech.

As far as DCinema scalers go, the ACS2048 was/iS BY FAR the best. That is, if what you wanted was actual scaling. For instance if you had a DVD with say a 1.66:1 aspect ratio, it could scale that up to prevent letterbox bars, regardless if it was with an anamorphic squeeze or not. However, in order for it to do its magic, one has to understand what you want it to do and put in the correct amount of "cropping" to have it magnify just right.

Though HDCP compliant, it is VERY FUSSY about HDCP. If one hooks up a BluRay to it and then right to the projector...generally, there are not problems...if you have other things in the HDMI/DVI switching scheme...like say an Audio de-embedder or A/V receiver...you may have HDCP handshake issues. It all depends on the player and the devices you have upstream.

We have used it rather extensively in some of our more sophisticated systems.

The truth is, the need for scalers is diminishing as consumer content moves heavily to BluRay and other 1080p capable sources. Furthermore, the scaling engine with current ICP software running in series 2 projectors can also scale HD content and eliminate letterbox bars or deal with anamorphic squeeze source material, if you know how to set the SOURCE parameters of the ICP. I carry around PCFs that are set for the popular ratios and they work on any DLP projector.

So what is left for scalers is to deal with are non TMDS sources like SDI/HDSDI. If you have a Christie or and NEC with a "legacy" module...then you already have a direct SDI spigot...which is best anyway. Failing that, using an AJA or Black Magic Design converter, one can get SDI to DVI pretty easily though one has to watch out for PSF formats since they are not really part of the TMDS world...the converter would have to put it in a proper HDMI format (the right AJA should do it fine).

As for Gefen, I've never really liked them. Their scalers are so-so and their accuracy of getting the image right isn't there. The current A/V Cinema Pro III (black case) handles the low bandwith Dolby and DTS now so you are covered on the sound though you are only going to get discrete 7.1 if your source can output LPCM. However, if you need just a box that will deal with sound and provide a single point of entry for BluRay, Cable, laptop...I suppose it is a way. Remember, the ACS never dealt with sound.

The most direct alternative to the ACS is the more powerful but much more expensive ImagePro II.

http://www.barco.com/en/Products-Solutions/Image-processing/Presentation-switchers/All-in-one-video-scaler-scan-converter-and-switcher.aspx

What is it you are trying to do?

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 04-27-2014, 06:16 PM:

When do you use it?

(Simultaneous post...Steve gave an example)

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-28-2014, 08:50 AM:

At Cinema Con we we told by Barco to order the Geffen Scaler. The guy from Barco even took us over to Troy in the Strong booth and told him exactly what to sell us. I thought that a bit odd but with so many scaler's out there perhaps Barco decided to stop making it. This is going on a DP-2000 and the customer wants to be able to feed any content source into it, Blu-Ray, cable and any odd sources that people renting the theater may happen to bring in. So including a scaler is actually necessary on this job. The projector will also get a new Gore Board at the same time.

Mark

Posted by Antti Nayha (Member # 4980) on 04-28-2014, 10:03 AM:

This news almost makes me want to stash a couple of those trusty old ACS-2048's...

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-28-2014, 11:34 AM:

Perhaps one of the Barco dealers on here could check this and see if it s indeed true or not true. I would rather cancel my order with Strong and get the ACS-2048 instead if it's still available. The sound processor they already have will handle Dolby Digital off Blu-Rays and many other formats so they are pretty well covered there.

Mark

Posted by Steve Moore (Member # 4753) on 04-28-2014, 01:12 PM:

When I looked at prices on the Gefen AV Cinema Scaler Pro I and II a year ago in the UK as an alternative to the less than reliable CineIPM 2K I was told by the UK dealers that the gefen's were discontinued and no one had any stock.

I've been trying to locate a Barco one 2nd hand for the last year!

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-28-2014, 05:55 PM:

Since you are using a series 1, you almost have to use a scaler for all but the most basic stuff.

I'll find out and report back.

The Gefen is now on the version 3 and is only available via the Cinema industry. Film-Tech is the best source (or a Film-Tech dealer)

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-29-2014, 05:35 AM:

The ACS-2048 is still available. In fact, they just released a new software update today. Feel free to switch your order.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-29-2014, 10:12 AM:

Thanks for checking!

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 04-29-2014, 01:19 PM:

We are checking with Strong to see what the deal is-was. It appears to me they just wanted to sell us either what was in stock or perhaps they do not have access to the Barco scaler. At any rate, we're going to try to nix the Geffen and get the Barco. This theater is located relatively far away and I don't need any issues after the fact.

Mark

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 04-29-2014, 02:27 PM:

There is currently a long lead time on the ACS, June I was quoted recently as earliest delivery!

Been using these lately;

http://www.calibreuk.com/product_pages/digital_cinema.php

I really do not like the Geffen very much.

Posted by Geoff Newitt (Member # 6663) on 05-06-2014, 10:50 AM:

I'm always slightly surprised when people sing the praises of the ACS-2048 - our teams have never got on with them at all. I wonder what we're missing?

They seem a bit flimsy, too - the BNC sockets seem to be only pressed in, prone to working loose and becoming unreliable.

I'm with Pete - those Calibre units are pretty good, our default scaler nowadays.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-06-2014, 11:10 AM:

The popular scaler around here is the Analog Way Pulse LE. It has a bit of a goofy user interface, but it works fine and does pretty much everything that is needed for most special screenings from video and computer equipment (including HDCP and a separate monitor output). My only two issues with it are the inability to adjust the gamma on a per-input basis and its inability to set the output frequency to 23.98 or 24Hz (the output is only settable to 60Hz or 50Hz). Oh, and there is an evil picture-in-picture mode that is hard to escape from.

I have seen the earlier version of the Gefen (circa 2012) and was unimpressed. I have not yet encountered the ACS-2048. I have used several other Barco units (mostly the Image Pro HD) and all seem fine for what they are.

For the most part, though, I agree that scalers are becoming less necessary. The most popular alternative content devices are HDCAM, Blu-Ray, and computers, and all are easily accommodated with HD-SDI and DVI inputs on D-cinema projectors. For sound, the DMA8 (plus) and the Oppo Blu-Ray player with its discrete 5.1 (or 7.1) audio outputs cover pretty much everything that people are asking for now.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 05-06-2014, 11:52 AM:

I run a lot of HDCAM, DVD and Bluray. I often use the ACS-2048 to adjust the aspect ratio of alternative content.

I also have an ImagePro-HD which I use for zooming and panning images that aren't quite right -- I encounter this a lot.

My only complaint about the ACS-2048 is that it is unstable, and needs to be rebooted a lot. Inputs just seem to "die" if not used for a few days. ESPECIALLY the DVI inputs.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-06-2014, 10:12 PM:

FWIW...the ACS2048 recently updated to 1.11. What that does is anybody's guess...the release notes this time were a bit vague.

I've yet to be impressed with Analog Way...their aspect ratio control is a joke and they won't do 480i on their HDMI/DVI inputs and definitely won't do any pSFs on their DVI/HDMI inputs. I'm not too keen on their software either. I also don't think they do a good job with frame rate conversions.

That said, we have a couple of customers that seem rather pleased with them for what they do. So clearly opinions vary.

As for the ACS2048. My biggest beef with it (and it is a huge one) is that it has to be the most persnickity HDCP compliant device on the planet. Anything at all can set off an HDCP flashing image.

On the up-side. It is the BEST at getting aspect ratios correct. While it does not have the output frequency chase the input frequency, one can now set the output frequency to match most of the common ones. At its current price point, it covers just about all types of analog sources better than most. It also handles broadcast sources well.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 05-09-2014, 12:39 AM:

Yeah -- No complaints about the ACS-2048 when it comes to HDSDI and analog.

Now that we're dark, I've got a lot of software/firmware updates to do. I guess we'll find out if 1.11 offers any improvement.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 05-09-2014, 05:17 AM:

It gives the ACS Auro 3D capability ;-)

- Carsten

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-09-2014, 06:58 AM:

I loaded it on one ACS thus far...not apparent changes and definitely didn't help with an HDCP issue between the cheap BluRay player and the ACS...change the BluRay player to a different one...problem gone.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 02-17-2015, 01:18 PM:

I think Bluray playback might've actually gotten worse with v1.11

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-18-2015, 06:02 AM:

I have not experienced that.

Posted by Alan Gouger (Member # 543) on 02-18-2015, 06:37 AM:

Found this recently on Barcos site.

http://www.barco.com/en/Products-Solutions/Image-processing/Presentation-switchers/4K-screen-management-system.aspx

Posted by Mattias Mattsson (Member # 4308) on 05-29-2015, 08:56 AM:

It seems that the ACS-2048 really is discontinued now:
https://www.barco.com/en/Products-Solutions/Options-accessories/Other/Alternative-content-switcher.aspx

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-29-2015, 09:41 AM:

I'm not horribly surprised. I used them a bit a few years ago but can't remember the last time we ordered one. With most people able to supply 1080p sources...what is the point of scaling. About all they seemed to get used for in our complex systems is for scaling DVDs and keeping the proper ratios regardless of encoding. But DVD usage has fallen favor of Blu-Ray and face it, a scaled DVD is never going to look like HD...no matter how good the scaler is.

If you just need VGA inputs (also something that is dying fast), there are far cheaper choices.

So it seems like it is a product that has run its course and was probably misused in its day (it was always an expensive way to just put a picture out there). I found its chief benefit was its ability to get aspect ratios right.

If you still want the scaling aspects of the ACS2048, there is the ImageProHD II. Significantly more money though.