Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Doremi IMB GPIO

This is topic Doremi IMB GPIO in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Owen Morgan (Member # 7854) on 05-15-2014, 05:59 PM:

Hello Everyone,

I am working on integrating some potentially useful interfaces with our projection setup, and primarily I'm interested in the GPI on the Doremi IMB...

I have already, a while ago, created some custom GPO's for our system, controlling lights and and tabs etc. via relays, and I was able to scrape together that the GPO's were Open Collector which allowed me to then easily create the external electronics.

I am now looking into the GPI to wire some buttons that will when linked to custom trigger cues, and taking advantage of the new markers and segments in the latest 2.6.4 Doremi software, allow me to jump around the SPL on button presses, exit from intermissions etc..

My question is, anyone know how the internal electronics of the GPI's is configured? i have seen that the GPI's on the old DCP-2k (non IMB) were opto-isolated, but I tried a simple config that would have worked that failed to register, no either my cobbled together thing wasn't creating enough current, or its set up differently.

Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated!!

Thank you,

Owen.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 05-16-2014, 05:56 AM:

You have noticed the schematics in the Doremi manuals?

- Carsten

Posted by Owen Morgan (Member # 7854) on 05-16-2014, 09:31 PM:

Looking in the field installer manual on the doremi ftp site only shows the pinout for the rj45, not how to drive the internal electronics properly...

I see a reference to # CRT.OM.001118.DRM...

I sent an email to doremi support (about something else), and was referred to the ticketing system... however, when creating an account for the doremi ticketing system, it was then immediately blocked...

knowing the same will happen again I came here... anyone know what that document contains?

Thanks for your help,

Owen.

Posted by Joe Elliott (Member # 4006) on 05-16-2014, 10:24 PM:

That is assuming Doremi improved on the imput trigger cues. I don't know anyone who has been able to get them to work reliably on the server, but one would assume they work better on the IMB/IMS. With anything in the digital cinema realm, you should throw any logical assumptions out the window, because engineers minds rarely work that way.

Posted by Owen Morgan (Member # 7854) on 05-16-2014, 11:24 PM:

Hi,

thanks for the advice, I hope my Electronic Engineering Degree allows me to get into the engineer's mind! If I can get the relevant documentation (# CRT.OM.001118.DRM) I will report back if I am successful or not!

Owen.

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 05-17-2014, 05:15 AM:

I've requested that document more than once, yet to see it [Frown]

Owen, I've got the GPI working on several IMBs, and reliably on server (Joe I dunno what you guys are doing, but no probs here)

I just followed the book, with the exception that the IMB does not provide any voltage.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 05-17-2014, 06:03 AM:

I would assume that the electronics behing the IMB and IMS GPIO are the same as on the older MediaBlock GPIOs. Have a look into the DCP2000/2k4 manuals!

- Carsten

Posted by Owen Morgan (Member # 7854) on 05-17-2014, 11:08 AM:

Hi,

Karl, heres the main issue, I assumed they may be the same, so using another document, I created a simple 5v setup, with 5v going to GPI1+ via a switch, and GPI1- (not a fan of - sign to denote 0v, confusing if you have a system with a -ve voltage rail) going to 0v. according to the DCP2K, this will work.....

By the fact it didn't, I now don't know if they are the same or not.... i was going to try again tomorrow, and test a few things out, like continuity etc (with diode you get a resistance reading when using continuity, with LED's if its visible you also get a small amount of light generated).

Thanks for the help thus far,

Owen.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 05-18-2014, 07:18 AM:

You can find CRT.OM.001118.DRM here:

http://outty.org/Content/CinemaTech/Doremi/IMB/Certainty_Complete_Specification_001118_v1.0.pdf

But it doesn't contain the GPIO circuitry.

quote: Owen Morgan

I sent an email to doremi support (about something else), and was referred to the ticketing system... however, when creating an account for the doremi ticketing system, it was then immediately blocked

The ticket system is mandatory for the european support site, and it is not intended for end users, only integrators/techs. But you may try Doremis US support contacts. If you contact them with a UK email adress, they may hint you back to the european support site. You have to try different ways. Sometimes it worked for me, sometimes not.

- Carsten

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 05-18-2014, 03:18 PM:

The IMS1000 installation and user manual has an appendix with GPO and GPI and suggested external circuits on pages 211 and 212. I would assume the IMS 1000 RJ45 GPIO is compatible with the IMB electronics as well.

- Carsten

Posted by Owen Morgan (Member # 7854) on 05-18-2014, 06:32 PM:

Carsten,

Thats the best thing I've seen allllll day! I completely think that the circuits will be the same in the IMB and IMS as it would save a lot of design time.

I understand the drive circuit enough to know that I was 100% on the right lines, just maybe some other factor was wrong.

Thanks once again!

Mind you, doremi not allowing the exhibitors to point out issues is a little stupid, as they are the ones using the software all the time, and are more likely to find the bugs!

Thanks,

Owen.

Posted by Owen Morgan (Member # 7854) on 05-19-2014, 11:37 AM:

Wow......

I've still got issues..... anyone know of any good (and painfully cheap) breakout boards?

Also, Having RUNG doremi europe technical support, they Really don't like it when their end users point out software bugs or elements that don't work as well as they could....... (the new segments are great, but the jump to segment macro only ever gets activated once, meaning indefinite loops are unobtainable. .. eg. Ive created an intermission CPL and I want it to loop indefinitely until I press a button causing a trigger to jump back to the 2nd half.......).

I was literally arguing with them about their 'protocol'...

Basically, if your an independent with no integrator service contract, you will get NO support about anything from doremi. I can understand with hardware issues needing an integrator to deal with Doremi, but software bugs, and rubbish manuals?? What can an integrator do about that? Contact doremi and say the exact same thing the exhibitor would say? Seems stupid to me.

Rant over!! Back to GPI...... anything cheap?

Owen.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 05-19-2014, 12:46 PM:

What kind of breakout board do you mean?

- Carsten

Posted by Owen Morgan (Member # 7854) on 05-19-2014, 01:48 PM:

Hi,

What sort of automation boards do people use, and what is the cheapest one? One that mainly offers GPI as I already have GPO's successfully wired up.

Owen.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 05-19-2014, 03:46 PM:

I don't know about painfully cheap breakout boards. Odyssey makes one for Doremi servers but I don't know the cost.
The usual approace here is to use a Jnior or Ecna automation device which has inputs and outputs. They interface with the server through the network. I have seen basically no problems with the Jniors. We have not used projector GPIO because it's simple but inconvenient to share it with 3D units. We haven't used server GPIO because of some fear of frying the ins/outs, requiring a relay interface board to control pretty much anything, and the few ins/out available. Using the off-the-shelf Jnior simplifies installation.
I can imagine Doremi thinking eliminating infinite loops in a playlist would be desirable. The intermission function looks to want a fixed intermission length. Other then having the intermission playlist pause at its end, I don't see a way to have the intermission wait for a restart cue. I haven't done a lot of intermission setups though - only Indian movies have intermissions here and that's easy because they come as 2 cpls.

Posted by Tim Sherman (Member # 569) on 05-19-2014, 05:38 PM:

you can check American Cinema Equipment. They have their own in house gpio interface model KLA-1. input and output no/nc relays onboard.

Posted by Owen Morgan (Member # 7854) on 05-19-2014, 06:56 PM:

Dave,

From what I see from using the new software, the intermission is an automation cue added to the film CPL set to trigger from a specified time from the beginning (A bit like adding a lights cue using the credit offset). You tell the doremi, to jump to another separate SPL designated for the intermission. At the end of the intermission SPL you send the 'Exit_intermission' macro, which then starts the film CPL where it left off (or, you can make it rewind a bit).

Using the new 'Segments' (where you can split an entire SPL into multiple CPL's) there is a new automation cue to 'Skip to ShowPlaylist Segment', now you could use this to then skip back to beginning of the intermission segment, or in my example skip back to the beginning of the preshow segment. It would have been good (if they actually spent the time to think how their software would be used) to allow you to create an infinite loop (you could have a pop-up asking how many times you wanted the loop to run 1, 2, 3, 4 times etc.. with a checkbox for infinite). Then using a trigger cue (Ie. GPI signal), which will respond to the trigger event no matter where in the SPL you are (if the fire alarm goes off, you want to stop the film immediately, regardless of where you are, and then play a very specific evacuation notice, hence the whole reason trigger cues were designed), you can invoke another macro with the skip to ShowPlaylist segment for the main SPL that skips to the main film SPL segment......

My picture shows the macro list i use, and it has the Exit intermission macro, Exit Loop Macro and the Loop PreShow macro. The Skip to ShowPlaylist Segment command is used both in the loop PreShow macro and the Exit Loop macro, they just point to different segments (loop PreShow, as it kinda hints, just creates a recursive loop)...... However, the Lopp Preshow macro only ever gets acted upon once... it would be nice to be able to set how many times it loops before escaping, or make it do so indefinitely...

Therefore, you have an infinite loop for pre-show, intermission, whatever, that can then be triggered to start the show, or exit from intermission... THEN Cinema's (or at least those who care about the whole cinema experience and the ideas of good presentation) can have ALL pre-show slides, advertising posters, of whatever, and then the Film running off the one system, and not have a data projector etc. so No blank white screen for the customers (although automated curtains would look good!) at any point, and an easy, all-in-one system for the whole show.

The thing that riles me, is that, as an end user, I am the one who uses the equipment, see's the limitations or room for new idea's, and so on, yet, they don't think they should have a channel in which I can tell them this, and give feedback, other than through an integrator, which means the integrators have to take time away from actually fixing hardware issues at other cinema's, to query menial software queries..

Its like saying if I buy a TV, the only way I can deal with manufacturer warranties, or not knowing which button on the remote turns the 3D on/off is through the shop I bought it from... Store managers want their team selling TV's, not answering questions that the manufacturer customer services can deal with..... (I know this analogy has some holes, but the general jist is there....).

I will talk with Pete Naples about different automation modules, I'm sure he can't wait to see another email from me!!!!

I was never worried about burning the GPIO's on the IMB out, as I have the Electronics Engineering skills behind me, I'm just even more annoyed that when I create a circuit the I know, and software tells me, will work, it then doesn't on the actual system (following Doremi's designs).

Owen.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 05-20-2014, 04:59 AM:

As far as the circuit looks, both outputs and inputs are only ends of optocouplers with series resistors, so, at least using basic electronics skills, there is little risk.

As to Doremi not talking with end users - that's the same with Dolby, Sony, etc.

I remember a training document saying that the european support situation is special and the ticket system only open for integrators or certified techs. If I remember right, this is NOT the case for the US support. It just may be though, that you need a .com email address to get through. Yes, it's a nuisance. Yet I have some appreciation - Doremi has +60.000 servers in the field, and simply no staff structures for dedicated end user support.

- Carsten