Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: KLISPCH HORN

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Posted by Bertrand Samson (Member # 5290) on 05-16-2014, 03:13 PM:

I've recently saw a movie with Klispch Horn speakers Large screen theater. It is what I remembered of that sound in the 70's . Very close to Altec more so than JBL. The surround speakers are humongous 12 Inch LF with horn most probably.

I thought I'd share this experience cause they are rare.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 05-16-2014, 05:32 PM:

Would be even more interesting If you quoted the name and location of the theater ;-)

- Carsten

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 05-16-2014, 06:02 PM:

I've always found the bass from the large Klipsch to be kind of flappy. Plenty loud but not very accurate IMHO.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-17-2014, 10:48 AM:

They are way over rated and way over priced... but they can sound pretty decent if eq'd with a THX spectrum analyzer. I had installed several sets of the three way systems back in the late 1980's and early 1990's. They were just ok sounding but had been fairly expensive systems to purchase. Then after I bought my first R-2 I decided to try using that on one of the Klipsch based systems. Low and behold it was like rolling up the shade in front of the window... Dialog was also much more natural sounding.

Posted by Bertrand Samson (Member # 5290) on 05-18-2014, 10:29 AM:

I found the vocals either at a lower octave or like you said with a vail in fron of them. One thing that sruckt me though was the scoring or music very rich sound.
That was a theater called Nova Scotia in Montreal .

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-18-2014, 02:08 PM:

The issue is that Klipsch isn't flat out of the box. Obviously this depends slightly upon the model, but they have frequencies that are WAY louder than others. Typically I find their "bass" is overbearing in the 80-160Hz range, totally lacking lower than that and too prominent above it. Some people confuse this to be a good thing and call it "warm sound" or go off spouting how wonderful Klipsch "bass" is.

On the other end of the spectrum, good luck getting any resemblance of an X curve out of the box. There are always overbearing frequencies within the 2k-10k slope, that again some people confuse that shrillness with "clarity".

Then of course there are all the frequencies in the middle that is usually a total disaster...and often the 800Hz-1.6K frequencies have a peak. For those non-sound guys, those frequencies around 1K if boosted is like sticking a knife in your ears when a female actress raises her voice. The sibilance in a female voice on a response like I'm about to show you below can make you blink.

Below is my favorite picture of a Klipsch room originally installed by a prominent service company that is still in business and doing well, not some fly-by-night company that is out of business. The room acoustics were fine, no baffle wall, but very much a typical cinema build with a shallow depth behind the screen to duct liner wall. This pic was taken after the EQ was flattened. Sorry I don't know what model of Klipsch speakers were being used, but it was a small room.

For you D2 people, that's 5db spacing selected. Yes you read that right.

I see this everywhere there is Klipsch and I've never heard a Klipsch system actually sound truly good to my ears. It's always "cheap bass" (80-160Hz) with "in-your-face shrill treble" (5-8K) and frequently a "honkiness" in the lower midrange, of which this was the first Klipsch room that didn't have the honky lower midrange that usually comes with the Klipsch name (frequencies between 200-500Hz).

Regardless this typical frequency response is precisely why Klipsch speakers don't need much power. The volume in the auditorium is actually being adjusted based upon those 6-10k frequencies. If played very loud, it just flat out hurts and will leave people's ears ringing or cause headaches.

There will be people who will say "you just need to EQ them". Well that's the problem. With Klipsch, there isn't even ENOUGH boost/cut to flatten the response, nevermind the other problems that are being created by maxing the available EQ.

To get "decent" sound from Klipsch, it really needs a parametric EQ. This isn't something that should be attacked via a graphic EQ. How many people actually use parametric though? (That sure as shit isn't happening with Atmos installs, since those are auto-EQ'd.)

You Klipsch fanboys can have 'em...every last one of them. I'm sticking with QSC because THOSE GUYS know how to make a damn speaker that are amazingly flat out-of-the-box. QSC speakers, particularly the SC-444 and SB-15121 are nothing short of AMAZING!!!

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-18-2014, 02:22 PM:

I totally agree with you Brad! QSC offers the best performance and build quality period. I won't even consider any of the JBL stuff any more because the cabinet workmanship is so crappy. A couple db better performance here and there with their subs is no excuse for me to sell a crappy cabinet that's eventually gonna fall apart.

Mark

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 05-18-2014, 05:46 PM:

I did once a quick test between a JBL HF unit and a Klipsch HF unit. (klipsch being dark grey)

It wasn't so bad! I also saw the RTA EQ'd result of some Klipsch and I was so impressed by how closely they were following the X-Curve, particularly at LF down to 40Hz. I don't remember the EQ but I am quite confident it wasn't overdone. LF in particular I do remember being flat - and the RTA was just perfectly matching the X-Curve

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-18-2014, 06:42 PM:

Marco, your own image above shows how poorly the Klipsch performs.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-19-2014, 06:45 PM:

Marco...

Exactly what HF units are being compared here? Also, if that was done with one mic in one place then it doesn't really qualify as being a meaningful response curve...

Mark

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 05-20-2014, 02:44 PM:

Definitely four microphones. That was a long time ago: I believe JBL 4670D-HF and Klipsch KPT-435-B

Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 05-20-2014, 04:32 PM:

Same problems with their home speakers? My whole home system is Klipsch (save the JBL 12" sub) and I rather enjoy the sound it has produced in the rooms I've had them in.

Using RF series towers as mains. I think they are the 62s? SC-1 center. SB-2 surrounds. All purchased quite some time ago and have never let me down.

AJG

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-20-2014, 07:53 PM:

If you are asking me, I've no idea what their non-cinema speakers sound like, other than a couple I've heard in some restaurants there and there (which sounded terrible). That doesn't mean they don't have some good sounding home speakers though and I've just not heard them.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 05-25-2014, 09:03 AM:

Forgot to mention that that reading was taken without the screen, which explains the boost on HF. As far as I remember - I did not do that EQ - the final result was pretty flat with no or little EQ. If I come across the final EQ I'll post it.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-25-2014, 01:27 PM:

Doesn't matter, the JBL is still WAY better than the Klipsch in your own graph. It's not even funny how much better it is.

JBL HF unit and a Klipsch HF unit. (klipsch being dark grey)

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-25-2014, 02:59 PM:

EV often has a high end like that

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 05-25-2014, 04:36 PM:

I don't argue about that but it's undoubtedly better than the reading you posted!

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-25-2014, 07:07 PM:

EV...particularly the DH1 had other issues too...like frequencies it emphasizes and others that it can't reproduce.

This past week I did some DCinema conversions (you thought they were all done, eh) on a plex that was built with JBL 4675s. It is always a happy day when I find those in the theatre...tuning is fast and easy...the results are just about always pleasing. The theatre had 4645Bs and again...flat down to 20Hz. If they had used baffle walls, the LF response would have been ruler flat too.

Oddly enough, I also recently tuned a room that used dual Altec 817A cabinets per channel (Internal drivers were 515-8LF) with an Altec 299MRII594A. The 817As did MUCH better than I thought they would...pretty darn flat down to 50Hz...the HF was flat out to 12.5KHz and a little low at 16KHz. I generally prefer the larger horn...the MR94...that is the BEST CD horn I've ever heard/tuned.