Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Can "anyone" install a Dolby Atmos system?

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Posted by Andrew Thomas (Member # 7000) on 05-30-2014, 11:38 AM:

I don't literally mean anyone, I'm more curious as the weather Dolby is still gatekeeping Atmos installs? I read they initially were selective about them.

I'm asking because in the next 12-18 months, we will be doing a lot more upgrades on our theater to continue modernizing it. Our large auditorium (340 seats, 60'x78' WxD) seems like a good candidate for immersive sound.

Any companies you recommend?

I know it probably sounds crazy for a "small town" theater owner to drop the gargantuan cost of a Atmos system in their theater, but I want the best and our projections say we can afford it.

Posted by Chase Taylor (Member # 778) on 05-30-2014, 01:21 PM:

Yes anyone can ;-)

Dolby will come and bless the system though.

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 05-30-2014, 04:22 PM:

Here, at any rate, one must have the design approved by Dolby.
They won't release the CP850 without that in place.
'Anyone' can perform the physical installation, then Dolby come to site, line it up and sign it off.

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 05-30-2014, 05:41 PM:

Pete is spot on and his description is exactly the same in the USA.

Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 05-30-2014, 08:13 PM:

Make sure you give it a good ear test before you let the Dolby tech leave. I recently heard one Atmos EQ disaster thanks to them.

Posted by Jonathan Goeldner (Member # 4854) on 05-30-2014, 08:18 PM:

apparently no one listened to the set volume level at the AMC Tyson's location - quite a few of the movies have been at near ear bleed intensity.

Posted by John Roddy (Member # 7348) on 05-31-2014, 03:52 PM:

The default level to which they EQ is insane. They EQ it to 7.0, but there's just way too loud. I have one of our screens running at 6.0 and the other at 6.2, and even those settings are a bit worrying. Luckily, atmos audio is much deeper in general. When it gets loud, it actually sounds good. Complaints of it being too loud are generally very rare.

Oh, and do be careful with your server selection if you do go for an install. If it's a Dolby server, there's no trouble. But if you try to run it on a GDC or something, definitely contact them in advance for all of the installation details. When we installed our second screen on a GDC server, we tried following the diagram available on their FTP. Didn't work. They ended up sending us a new diagram that was quite a bit different. Had to install a second switch too. Good grief, it was a mess. Clear that up ahead of time so you don't end up wasting a week trying to get it working too.

Oh, and be sure to get a new server certificate if using an existing server. That's what caused a half-week of key-related headaches for us here.

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 05-31-2014, 04:22 PM:

Allen Theaters here in NM have done three Atmos installs so far - one each in Roswell (Galaxy 8), Las Cruces (Telshor 12), and Farmington (Animas 10). Not big markets. Don't know who did the actual installs though...

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 05-31-2014, 07:11 PM:

Atmos has so much headroom I'm concerned that someone could get hurt! With a Dolby Digital system if everything was run at full steam you ended up with 3x103dB + 2x100dB + 1x113dB. With Atmos, you end up with 5x105dB + 1x115dB + (put the surround number here)x102dB. It could be dangerous!

One of the reasons why Atmos sounds better is the massive headroom the system can provide, hence the components are driven at a more reasonable level and the overall distortion is lower. Not rocket science, but it's an unknown subject to those who keep installing budget sound systems.

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 06-03-2014, 05:22 AM:

quote:
With a Dolby Digital system if everything was run at full steam you ended up with 3x103dB + 2x100dB + 1x113dB. With Atmos, you end up with 5x105dB + 1x115dB + (put the surround number here)x102dB. It could be dangerous!

I don't know for sure but I can only assume that there are limits on the mixing side that doesn't allow encoding that will cause unsafe levels on playback. Unlike Dolby Digital, the mixer can't encode each speaker to play max level.

If they are using the beds, then the entire "channel" will be at a certain level but each individual surround speaker will be nowhere near it's max output.

Each speaker needs all that headroom because certain auditorium shapes can lead to a relatively low number of surround speakers on some walls in a large room.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 06-03-2014, 05:51 AM:

As the CP850 has to be completely aware of the full installation details, it could actually detect dangerous conditions and apply limiting. Wether it is doing it, I have no idea.

- Carsten

Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 06-03-2014, 07:22 AM:

Is anyone aware of public limits to minimize hearing damage? I've seen occupational limits by the US OSHA. Generally, they establish a dosage where 100% is 85 or 90 dBA continuously for 8 hours. Higher levels increase the dosage faster. But, these are occupational, not public. Also, most movies are not 8 hours long.

Harold

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 06-03-2014, 08:32 AM:

In Europe for all sorts of venues like clubs, concert halls, etc.

There are quite a few devices available that combine a spectrum analyser + weighting with a limiter. They are all two-channel, though some can be setup in linked mode for multichannel installations.

Luetronic SPB 420
Apex Argos
Dateq SPL-3
Prefer SBX-2
Outline Domina
Rodec ALC-01
Master Audio SSL-1

Basically, every Limiter/Compressor can be used to do that, but these dedicated devices e.g. have their thresholds password protected or security seals over their controls. Some offer logging so that actual levels can later be reported.

I have never heard about them being applied to cinemas. Aside from some open air cinema events, but then the intention was to protect the neighborhood, not the audience.

For fixed cinema installations, they do not seem to care that much, probably because there is some defacto internal regulation already there with mastering, installation and Dolby 7 reference, etc. Also it seems to be acknowledged that movies only contain spurious high levels, unlike some concerts.

IMAX, however, could definitely need something like that ;-)

- Carsten

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-03-2014, 10:50 AM:

How many crews does Dolby have in the field either installing Dolby Atmos systems or inspecting installation designs? I'm wondering if there's some kind of bottle-neck going on, at least in terms of installs here in the United States.

Just going by what I see at Dolby's website and their Atmos equipped theaters map, it seems like there are hardly any new/recent Dolby Atmos installations at all in the US, despite the 2014 Summer movie season being underway and there being a good number of movies with Dolby Atmos mixes due for release. Kansas City got a couple more Atmos screens. Maybe another one or two went into Michigan. The Toronto region might have gained a couple more. I don't see many other recent installs in North America.

Markets like Dallas-Fort Worth and Houston don't have any more Atmos equipped screens than they did last year. The same is true in many other markets, like Miami, DC and Seattle. Meanwhile Cinemark is deploying Auro 11.1 systems at what seems like a pretty brisk pace even though Cinemark hasn't been doing squat to advertise Auro at all and the format still has a dimsal lack of titles. Nevertheless, Texas now has more Auro-equipped theaters than Atmos.

A lot of new Atmos installations have been going into places like China, India, Russia and some other parts of Europe. But Atmos progress here in the United States appears to have ground to a halt. That's why I wonder if Dolby just has a backlog of installs they have to approve or if DTS' OpenMDA vaporware has taken all the wind out of Dolby's sails.

quote: Paul Mayer
Allen Theaters here in NM have done three Atmos installs so far - one each in Roswell (Galaxy 8), Las Cruces (Telshor 12), and Farmington (Animas 10). Not big markets.

Las Cruces has 2 Atmos equipped theaters, both operated by Allen Theaters (the Telshor 12 and Cineport 10). Strangely, bigger cities in this region, Albuquerque and El Paso have no Atmos equipped theaters. El Paso does have 4 Auro 11.1 equipped theaters and Albuquerque has 1 (they're all Cinemark/Century "XD" screens).

Given the size of smaller cities like Roswell and Farmington, I have to wonder how far Allen Theaters has gone in configuring those Atmos screens. Do they have a minimal number of amps, making the systems closer to something like a conventional 9.1 channel based setup or did they put in a whole lot of amps like other more prominent Atmos installations? I can't help wonder if someone running Allen Theaters just has deep pockets. The oil economy in New Mexico has been doing pretty well.

quote: Lyle Romer
If they are using the beds, then the entire "channel" will be at a certain level but each individual surround speaker will be nowhere near it's max output.

Each speaker needs all that headroom because certain auditorium shapes can lead to a relatively low number of surround speakers on some walls in a large room.

Each surround speaker needs that extra headroom (and performance capability) to properly render individual point-source objects in specific places within the surround field. If you have an object playing from just one or two speakers in a surround array they're going to need to play the audio element loud enough for anyone in the room to hear it.

quote: Harold Hallikainen
Is anyone aware of public limits to minimize hearing damage? I've seen occupational limits by the US OSHA. Generally, they establish a dosage where 100% is 85 or 90 dBA continuously for 8 hours. Higher levels increase the dosage faster. But, these are occupational, not public. Also, most movies are not 8 hours long.

Decibel levels alone are insufficient to use in drafting hearing safety guidelines. Frequency level in relation to decibel level should be the standard. Unfortunately that's more difficult for politicians and people who dislike loud movies to understand. There's no doubt a high frequency audio element, like a gun shot, played at 120db would be painfully loud. Sub-bass rumbling at 120db won't cause any hearing damage much less be painful to listeners; it can be pretty thrilling, provided the amps and speaker drivers can handle it.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 06-03-2014, 11:48 AM:

We have to set the fader on 4.0, for even 5.0 is just too loud on our two CP850 units...and we have two 340 seat houses with 65ft screens in them.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-03-2014, 12:56 PM:

And Monte...what brand of speakers are in those rooms playing at 4.0?

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 06-03-2014, 03:24 PM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
That's why I wonder if Dolby just has a backlog of installs

Considering the fact that their original goal was 1000 installs in the first year, I can't imagine that they are short people to perform the installation service.

I think what they really need is for QSC (or others) to produce economical amplifiers that are designed for Atmos (including the Atmos connect protocol). Well, that and to get the price of the CP850 and install service down at least 33%.

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 06-03-2014, 03:28 PM:

If you design yous system carefully around these , they work out reasonably economical.

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 06-03-2014, 04:28 PM:

Yeah, forgot about the Cineport in Las Cruces that was going in back in January just as I was leaving the contract job I had covering the NM Allen screens (and one Cinemark in El Paso). Neither the Cineport nor the Video were my theaters, I only had the Telshor. So yeah, two Atmos screens now in Las Cruces - Allen figures some people drive up from El Paso to see titles in Atmos on one of the Allen screens in Cruces. And yup - still no Atmos in ABQ, the biggest MSA and movie market in NM.

Posted by Jarod Reddig (Member # 6363) on 06-03-2014, 04:41 PM:

Bobby do you know which cinemas in Kansas City other than the Barrywoods AMC now has Atmos rooms?

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 06-04-2014, 01:06 AM:

Brad, I have all JBL's in the two houses-including the 16 VoG speakers mounted on the ceiling.

Either the Dolby ATMOS tech set the system way too loud, or something similar.

Either way, I have no knowledge of what took place during the install of this system since I wasn't on location at the time.

Posted by Jarod Reddig (Member # 6363) on 06-04-2014, 03:11 AM:

Do you know which models of JBL screen channels and surrounds Monte? Just curious.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-04-2014, 01:09 PM:

quote: Jarod Reddig
Bobby do you know which cinemas in Kansas City other than the Barrywoods AMC now has Atmos rooms?

The new Cinetopia Overland Park 18 theater has two Atmos-equipped houses (the "GXL" big screen rooms). The AMC Town Center 20 in Leawood, KS (S. side of Kansas City metro) added a Prime screen, like the AMC Barrywoods location.

I'm getting this info just by looking at Dolby's own Atmos installations map. I don't know how often they update it, but it seems like new theaters boasting Atmos get on the map fairly quick.

One thing I really wish Dolby would do with this map: list how many screens are equipped. When I look at that map and see the Atmos icon at a theater location I automatically think "one single screen equipped." There's a significant number of theaters that have more than one Atmos screen. Look Cinemas in Dallas has 2 Atmos houses. Santikos' Palladium AVX theater West of Houston has 4 Atmos houses.

I think Dolby ought to at least give some credit to theaters that want to spend even more money installing Atmos on multiple screens. I might be more inclined to visit a theater equipped with more than just 1 Atmos house. Theaters with Atmos on only one screen may play a certain movie in Atmos for only one week or even less than that. I watched the last Hobbit movie in Dolby Atmos opening weekend because I had a strong feeling another movie coming out on the following Wednesday would push it off that screen. And I was right. A theater with multiple Atmos screens would have more movies playing longer in Atmos.

Posted by Jarod Reddig (Member # 6363) on 06-04-2014, 04:01 PM:

Thanks for the info Bobby.

Ill start checking the Dolby Atmos install map. Yes I agree they really need to say how many screens are Atmos equipped at each location.

Posted by John Roddy (Member # 7348) on 06-04-2014, 04:32 PM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
Santikos' Palladium AVX theater West of Houston has 4 Atmos houses.

The Palladium AVX has six atmos screens, not four. It's just highly unlikely that they're all playing an atmos feature at the same time since they're all the ultra-large AVX MAX houses. Gotta keep some of 'em free for the new releases, even if they don't have an atmos track.

On that note, there's one of the biggest problems with atmos right now. The theaters that do install it are only putting it in the ultra-large premium houses. Those are the ones that will always have the newest releases each week, regardless of whether or not they support atmos. It doesn't make sense to keep an old feature in a large house like that unless it's guaranteed to sell very well. Save for a few here and there, most movies supporting atmos just won't be that popular. Yeah, you've got your Hobbits and X-Men, but don't forget the Frankensteins and Transcendences that pop up.

But yeah, it would still be nice to know the number of screens. I'd also like to see some cost reductions in there or incentives to install the system in smaller houses. As it stands right now, you're not going to get the atmos experience unless you rush out to the theaters within the first or second week. At least knowing the number of screens in there would help everyone know just how long they can expect an atmos movie to remain atmos. Sites like the Palladium AVX can afford to keep an atmos feature in atmos for a couple more weeks than usual, but ones like mine (Silverado-IMAX) only have two screens or less. Atmos or not, there's some fierce competition for those large houses.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-04-2014, 08:41 PM:

Santikos must have added an additional couple of Atmos systems (and converted a couple of its houses to "AVX MAX") some time after its original opening in May of last year.

When my girlfriend and I visited that theater last year four of the houses had Atmos and AVX MAX screens. We wanted to see the new Star Trek movie there in Atmos, but that animated movie Epic pushed it off all four of those screens -which was really stupid since Epic didn't do very well.

At least Santikos is changing up that policy some. I just checked their web site. The Palladium AVX theater will have The Edge of Tomorrow opening on one of the AVX houses in Atmos. Two of the AVX houses will still play Malificient. Another two AVX houses will still play the X-Men movie in Atmos. The 6th house equipped with Atmos will be playing a non-Atmos title, The Fault In Our Stars. That's four different movies playing in Atmos in the same theater. Not bad, especially since the X-Men movie will be going into its 3rd weekend.

One nice thing about Santikos' AVX houses: they don't cost a premium to enter unless they're showing a movie in 3D.

Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 06-04-2014, 10:41 PM:

It really is hard to catch all of these Atmos titles for me as well. With only one Atmos screen and it being 40 minutes away. Godzilla didn't even have a full week in the Atmos house, and Maleficent didn't get ANY time in EITHER Kansas city AMC Atmos house, I think I'll check out the Overland Park Cinetopia. Kinda wanted to run up to Omaha to check out the Marcus Atmos house, We'll see.

Speaking of which, they must update that Dolby map frequently enough, this Cinetopia just opened 2 weeks ago.

Posted by John Roddy (Member # 7348) on 06-04-2014, 10:53 PM:

Nope, Palladium AVX opened with six atmos systems in six AVX MAX screens. They might've just knocked Star Trek out of the other two back then for a non-atmos movie or something. I don't remember exactly what happened back then. I was busy trying to keep my own theater together. They definitely did open with six though. I know that for sure.

The lack of premium is nice though. I really wish more theaters would do that. Much better incentive to go see it in atmos when the pay wall isn't steeper.

Posted by Jarod Reddig (Member # 6363) on 06-05-2014, 02:45 AM:

Think Ill check out the Cinetopia next time im in KC for a Royals game prolly in July.

I agree. State of the art sound shouldn't have a premium price.

Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 06-05-2014, 09:11 AM:

The new Atmos installation at the Marcus Renaissance Cinema in Sturtevant, WI has the same problem. Rather than play Edge of Tomorrow in their UltraScreen DLX auditorium, which just got its Atmos installation recently, they are playing The Fault in Our Stars instead.

I would imagine that's a result of someone predicting the audience numbers for each movie, or perhaps there was some studio involvement at hand, but looking at it from the outside, I would have put the Atmos movie in the Atmos house, and put The Fault in Our Stars in two screens to make up for the seating count represented by the UltraScreen.

Just goes to show that the right thing to do would be to have the best sound system in every auditorium instead of just one or a select few. This is THX all over again.

My question in the meeting with Dolby would have been: how much if we put Atmos in all the auditoriums?

My guess is that a lot of theaters are waiting for the inevitable price drop from Dolby. If the international installations can help Dolby recover their R&D costs and fund development of a 2nd-gen processor, maybe the cost of the processor will come down and in the meantime, some companies will come up with a mega-channel amp solution along with a buy-a-pallet of speakers deal so that doing these Atmos installs isn't like only having a six pack of Kit Kats for trick-or-treat.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-05-2014, 02:28 PM:

quote: Scott Jentsch
The new Atmos installation at the Marcus Renaissance Cinema in Sturtevant, WI has the same problem. Rather than play Edge of Tomorrow in their UltraScreen DLX auditorium, which just got its Atmos installation recently, they are playing The Fault in Our Stars instead.

I think some theater operators are a little worried how Edge of Tomorrow will perform in the United States. It's already playing in theaters in some overseas markets and hasn't been doing so great. That's despite generally positive critics reviews here (the movie currently has a 88% "certified fresh" rating at Rotten Tomatoes). Maybe some overseas movie-goers don't get the Groundhog Day with aliens, guns and explosions concept. I think the movie should do pretty well here. I'd like to see it.

Regardless of how well Edge of Tomorrow performs, I don't think a love story featuring a girl hooked up to an oxygen tank fits a giant screen, big sound presentation. I wouldn't pay any price premium at all for that movie. At least Edge of Tomorrow has a native Atmos mix and has the spectacle and bombast that's fitting for giant sized screens.

quote: Scott Jentsch
Just goes to show that the right thing to do would be to have the best sound system in every auditorium instead of just one or a select few. This is THX all over again.

I don't think every auditorium needs Dolby Atmos, much less THX (even though some theaters have put THX in every standard auditorium). Few, if any, multiplex theaters had 70mm capability in every house. Although any theater playing a movie in 70mm usually played it for more than just one week.

Not enough movies are being mixed with Atmos to justify putting Atmos in every auditorium. And out of movies with Atmos tracks, not all of them use the Atmos format very well. Add the other variables to the situation, like Cinemark installing Auro 11.1 in a lot of theaters and a group of interests pushing DTS' OpenMDA format, which may or may not be any better than Auro, but a lot of theater operators are obviously holding off to see how much cheaper OpenMDA based products will be.

quote: Scott Jentsch
My guess is that a lot of theaters are waiting for the inevitable price drop from Dolby.

Dolby at least has to drop the list price on the CP850 sometime soon. I've seen it written in a couple places that theater operators don't pay anywhere near the $35K list price of the CP850, but they're still paying some serious money to install Atmos regardless of any price breaks Dolby is giving on the processor.

Most Atmos theaters have to install better surround array speakers and more of them. They also have to add more sub-bass cabinets, like at least a new pair in the surrounds. It might also be an opportunity to upgrade the stage speakers and even add more of them (5 towers instead of 3). An Atmos theater needs a huge number of amplifiers.

Most high quality amplifiers for movie theaters come in 1 or 2 channel capability. I think QSC has 1 four-channel model that is THX approved.

What would it take for a company like QSC to make new power amplifiers that output 8 or 16 channels of amplification? What are the design hurdles? Would such an amp be unable to operate off a traditional 120V 20amp electrical connection? Would there be quality issues of squeezing so many channels of amplification into one piece of rack mount equipment? Would such a thing save any money at all over the traditional 1-2 channel power amps?

I have a feeling there has to be some kind of hurdle present, otherwise we would have seen 8-channel & 16-channel power amps years ago. If such amplifiers provided a big cost savings over separate power amps we would see a lot more 4-way stage speaker setups in theaters.

Posted by Adam Fraser (Member # 1074) on 06-05-2014, 06:44 PM:

I took a look at the specification papers that Dolby put out and it looks like our large single screen auditorium would require somewhere in the neighborhood of 48 total surround speakers, the amps to go with them, a CP850, 2 more subwoofers behind the screen, and maybe more subs in the surround array if I was Reading the charts properly. Going by list prices we would be somewhere well over $50,000 to install Atmos in our 50' by 100' auditorium. That was just a quick read over though and my math could be wrong.

Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 06-05-2014, 07:48 PM:

On multi-channlel amps, we're using two 8-channel amps and a 4-channel from Crown in our 13.1 MDA room. They can do 600W per channel. There's also a 4-channel that can do 1.25kW per channel.

Harold

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 06-06-2014, 12:15 AM:

We're getting more buzz with that "The Fault in Our Stars" flick than the Tommy Cruise Sci-Fi flick ..but this leads to a different thread.

(What has Cruise done to get him stuck doing Sci-Fi flicks lately..?)

Monte

Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 06-06-2014, 02:25 AM:

Is it normal for an Atmos installation to have surround speakers go all the way to the screen?

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 06-06-2014, 03:51 AM:

Our front surrounds are about 20ft from the face of the screen and are aimed at the two front rows positioned in the sloped section of the house.

Same with the front VoG speakers up in the ceiling - about that same distance from the face of the screen.

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 06-06-2014, 05:34 AM:

quote: Buck Wilson
Is it normal for an Atmos installation to have surround speakers go all the way to the screen?

Not only is it normal, it is specified. From the Dolby Atmos Specifications:

"The distance between the front-most loudspeaker and the screen must be between 50 and 100% of the interspeaker spacing."

When the surrounds are used as a "bed" (fancy term for what was formerly a surround channel) in the mix, the front most surrounds are not used in the playback.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-06-2014, 09:51 AM:

In addition to the added side wall and ceiling surround speakers running closer to the screen Dolby also recommends five stage channels instead of 3 for screens wider than 12 meters/40 feet.

Dolby Atmos could be used as a means of properly playing classic five-up-front 70mm mixes. Studios still have to figure out how to properly get 2.20:1 content framed in d-cinema.
[Razz]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-06-2014, 09:59 AM:

5 stage channels should always be used in an Atmos system, regardless of the "recommendation". Case in point a mix such as Gravity there the dialogue is slowly roaming around the entire soundfield as the actors float should not have blatantly tighter spacing between surround speakers.

Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 06-06-2014, 12:25 PM:

Ok. I thought so, but the way the Cinetopia GXL surrounds were seemed pretty unusual. They were spaced closer than the rest of the surrounds and RIGHT up on the screen. It was a very interesting auditorium, VERY steep rake to the stadium seating

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-06-2014, 01:55 PM:

That does seem a little strange to have the surround speakers nearest to the screen spaced more closely together. Maybe they had one installation template for a standard surround array and then had too many extra surround speakers for Atmos to squeeze into that gap that usually exists between the screen and traditional surround array speakers.

The diagrams I've seen in Dolby's Atmos specs PDF show uniform surround speaker placement, although the speakers run all the way up to the screen.

That tighter spacing of the first few surround speakers might not matter at all (or maybe even be completely unnecessary). The Atmos processor is rendering for the geometry of the room rather than just playing specific audio tracks to certain speakers like conventional channel-based audio. IIRC, the position of each speaker has to be accurately measured and entered into the Atmos processor. The CP850 uses the data about the auditorium and the placement of every speaker to render that 3D audio image. Obviously more speakers and amps are going to yield more vivid, fluid panning and point source surround effects.

Posted by Jonathan Goeldner (Member # 4854) on 06-06-2014, 09:20 PM:

I thought the extra surrounds closer to the screen were effectively used for the Atmos presentation of 'Gravity'

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 06-07-2014, 05:47 PM:

The Edge of Tomorrow made good use of the extra surround speakers. I watched that movie last night. Best Atmos mix I've heard since Gravity.

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 06-11-2014, 06:22 AM:

quote: Scott Jentsch
My guess is that a lot of theaters are waiting for the inevitable price drop from Dolby. If the international installations can help Dolby recover their R&D costs and fund development of a 2nd-gen processor, maybe the cost of the processor will come down and in the meantime, some companies will come up with a mega-channel amp solution along with a buy-a-pallet of speakers deal so that doing these Atmos installs isn't like only having a six pack of Kit Kats for trick-or-treat.

Something that I think will help with the cost reduction is if the amplifier manufacturers accepted the audio via Atmos connect. This would eliminate the need for the CP850 to have D/A converters (and the external 1 or 2 D/As also). Perhaps when the amps are available, they will offer a CP855 that is cheaper without the D/As.

Posted by Mohd Ridzuan (Member # 7054) on 06-16-2014, 04:12 PM:

Hi FT, what is requirements version for DSS220 to support atmos as i cant find CP850 in the configuration setting. Thanx

Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 07-04-2014, 07:34 PM:

quote: Harold Hallikainen
Is anyone aware of public limits to minimize hearing damage? I've seen occupational limits by the US OSHA. Generally, they establish a dosage where 100% is 85 or 90 dBA continuously for 8 hours. Higher levels increase the dosage faster. But, these are occupational, not public. Also, most movies are not 8 hours long.

I think there are plenty of venues in the U.S., especially music clubs and concert venues, where the sound levels routinely exceed OSHA levels and potentially cause permanent hearing damage. I'm amazed that there hasn't been a class action lawsuit by employees who work in such venues.

"On the side", I create websites for musicians and also do photography for the sites. Of the musicians I work with, I don't know a single one who doesn't have hearing damage and/or tinnitus and these aren't exactly heavy metal bands.

I developed tinnitus after attending a concert with a cold some years ago, even though I used hearing protection. I no longer have ringing, but I think there is still perceived noise generation.

I love great theatrical sound, but I find too many theaters playing the audio at absurdly loud levels. A lot of this happens in the mixing room where the film's director insists on everything being loud, but I really don't want to be yelled at in every single dialog scene. Even in big action scenes, while I like impact, I don't need the entire scene to be beyond the threshold of pain. Both in the music and theatrical industries, it seems like everyone has forgotten what dynamic range means and that you create emotion by the differences in sound levels, not by incessant loudness. I never thought I would ever have to wear hearing protection while watching a movie, but I have.

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 07-05-2014, 10:56 AM:

quote: Martin Brooks
I think there are plenty of venues in the U.S., especially music clubs and concert venues, where the sound levels routinely exceed OSHA levels and potentially cause permanent hearing damage. I'm amazed that there hasn't been a class action lawsuit by employees who work in such venues.

I haven't ever paid close attention but I assume that the employees in those environments wear ear protection of some sort.