Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Stupid question about subtitles.

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Posted by James Waite (Member # 4536) on 09-10-2014, 07:27 PM:

I'm playing an opera this weekend. It's the first thing I have played that had multiple subtitle files. I ingested the content and what I'm pretty sure are the correct subtitle files (opera is 2 parts)
I can't get the subtitles to work. I've tried turning on the subtitles in the doremi server and of in my Christie 2210 projector as suggested elsewhere.

This is my stupid question.
Where should the subtitle files be? I can't find any information as to whether they are supposed to be in the playlist somehow?
Or are they just left on the server and the 'movie' knows to look for them somehow? They ingested into the same section of the server where movies end up.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-10-2014, 09:49 PM:

Does the feature content naming string display anything about any specific language like "LAS" (Spanish, Latin America ), or similar?

If none, then you will not have any opportunity for subtitles since the content wasn't produced for optional subtitle usage.

It's all listed here.

If there is any other languages in that naming string, then it take a special language KDM key to unlock this option.

Good Luck -Monte

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 09-11-2014, 01:16 AM:

YEP - on the ingest drive there should be more than one feature version/CPL. Probably one without and one or multiple with subtitles. Then you also need a key to play the subtitled versions. If you say you can play the movie but no subtitles appear, then I guess the version and key you use does not contain subtitles.

Subtitles can sometimes make problems, disappear,etc but the way you describe it sounds to me as if you are playing a version without any subtitles.

I also had it one time that the subtitled version came as a version file through email - as subtitles are usually small, that is possible. It may be that you can order separate subtitle files and KDMs from the distributor in this case as well.

- Carsten

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 09-11-2014, 11:24 AM:

Are the DCPs Interop or SMPTE? I don't know if this issue applies to your server and/or projector, but we have an ongoing issue with the setup in one of our houses whereby the fact that we have a series 1 projector forces us to use an older version of the server software (NEC NC2500S and Dolby DSS200/cat862 running 4.3.5.13), and this will sometimes fail to display subtitles in SMPTE-format DCPs. Interop subtitles work reliably. I haven't had time to read up on precisely why this is, but have heard that it's something to do with the amount of memory needed by the projector to render the subtitles, and that the SMPTE way of doing it uses too much for a series 1.

We show foreign movies all the time and so this is a known issue for us. On the technical info sheet we give to festival organizers and suchlike we ask them to provide Interop DCPs of subtitled movies if possible, and if not or if it's out of their control, to bring a BD backup as well. Those BDs have saved our bacon several times. But for somewhere that mainly shows mainstream, first or second-run Hollywood and gets a subtitled show once in a blue moon, I can see this issue causing a gotcha.

Though as Carsten points out, receiving a hard drive with multiple versions of the DCP and a key for the wrong one is also a known hazard. I've had that happen for a festival show this weekend, in fact. Another key hazard is when a DCP arrives from Europe with a key written for their time zone (8 to 10 hours ahead of here), not ours, to close at the end of the playdate.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 09-11-2014, 12:31 PM:

I guess this isn't really a stupid question, because subtitles regularly are causing trouble.

Since it's an opera and it's probably recorded at 25 FPS, I guess it's SMTPE and not CineCanvas/Interop.

I've seen problems with subtitles containing fonts that are larger than 640 KBytes that cause all kinds of troubles. Those "labs" the big studios use usually get their stuff right, but many independent releases might suffer from those kind of errors, leading to compatibility issues.

Posted by John Thomas (Member # 6509) on 09-11-2014, 03:00 PM:

You need your original version ingested, and also the subtitle version file (with "VF" at the end of the name), as well as KDMs for both.

The subtitle version file, that is, the the CPL with "VF" at the end of it, is what you should program as the feature in your playlist.

Posted by James Waite (Member # 4536) on 09-11-2014, 06:15 PM:

Putting just the VF in the playlist worked. Thanks for the advice. Thankfully this wasn't encrypted so I didn't have to worry about KDMs.