This is topic Dolby / Doremi DCP Compatibility Gotcha in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 09-19-2014, 11:58 AM:
 
I thought I'd write this up here as a heads up for any others encountering the same issue. Apologies if it's been covered before.

My organization has three auditoria in total. Two of them have Dolby DSS200s. Until earlier this week, the third had no DCP server at all, but we're currently in the process of installing a Doremi DCP2000.

For testing purposes I tried to ingest a few DCPs that I had saved by copying them from the DSS200 directly to a USB hard drive or stick (by pressing left arrow in the local content tab). Until now, my normal workflow has been that I've been creating various DCPs at home, usually from ProRes files supplied by festival entrants, local advertisers, that sort of thing, using either Adobe Premiere or DCP-o-Matic, then taking them into work on a stick and ingesting them into one of the Dolby servers. When the shows are done, I then copy them back from the server onto a hard drive that then sits on a shelf in the booth, if I think it's likely that they'll be needed again (which usually means trailers for classic movies that smaller distributors tend to supply as .mov or .mp4 files).

So I tried ingesting some of these into the Doremi yesterday, and it wouldn't see them - "no content to ingest" when I stuck the drive in. To start with I thought it was a problem with the volume format, but I tried NTFS, FAT32, exFAT, ext2 and ext3, all with the same result: "no content to ingest".

Eventually we contacted Doremi technical support, and it seems that the problem is as follows. When you copy something from a Dolby DSS200 to an external volume, it does not copy the .pkl file from the DCP folder along with everything else. The Dolby server does not need the .pkl file to play the DCP, and therefore ignores it (I'm guessing that it doesn't even copy it in during the ingest process). The Doremi software, however, does need the .pkl, and without it will not recognize the presence of, ingest or play the DCP.

So the bottom line is that if you save a DCP by copying it from a Dolby server onto an external hard or flash drive, you will not then be able to ingest the copy into a Doremi. The only workaround I can think of for this is to copy the DCP folder directly from the supplied media onto your archive drive, using a computer running an operating system that can read all the volume formats you may have to deal with (FAT32, exFAT, NTFS, ext2, ext3, HFS and HFS+), e.g. Ubuntu.
 
Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 09-19-2014, 01:09 PM:
 
I think it's always best to use the original content to work with, this importing and exporting is just another iteration that can cause trouble.

I didn't know that the DSS200 just blatantly forgets about the PKL files during export. Although, strictly spoken you don't need them to play the content, they are essential to check if the content isn't corrupted...
 
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-19-2014, 01:38 PM:
 
Leo,

I think Dolby is the only one that allows moving content off of the server back to the CRU and yes, if you do it that way it will only move off the stuff that the Dolby server needs.

However, if you need the whole shebang...find out what the UUID of the movie you want to back off (look under its properties in the Content or Build screen) and then using a normal FTP program using the normal FTP user/pass you look in the "generated packages" folder for the UUID of the content you need...there you will find all of the files for the DCP, including the PKL file.

If things are networked...you can do a network transfer too. Again, set it up as an FTP transfer. A little known feature in the Dolby GUI is under the Network Content you can create an FTP pull by clicking on the little arrow in the left column (source) and configure where the content is to come from...could be another server or your computer...whatever...you can then use Dolby's FTP to pull the content to that server.

Since you have two Dolby servers...any reason you didn't stick with it? With Dolby, for up to three servers, the TMS feature is "free" and they could all be networked rather easily.
 
Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 09-19-2014, 03:05 PM:
 
I believe the pkl was deleted when the content was ingested till some software revision. Then I heard they wanted to change then, but I've never checked myself. It seems that they've changed the way the content is ingested but the export feature is still not transferring them
 
Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 09-19-2014, 03:20 PM:
 
Dolby DSS200 has been discontinued and may be the reason for going to Doremi. DSS200 I6 is still available, but of course only works with IMB and thus, series 2 projectors.

As usual, no notice was given until one tries to order one.
 
Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 09-19-2014, 07:55 PM:
 
We're using the Doremi for the simple and very welcome reason that it was donated to us!

Ingest via FTP is not something we're doing as yet in any of our houses. Networking the servers such that this can be done (both ingesting DCPs and keys from outside, and moving DCPs between servers) is on our medium-term radar, but we're not there yet.

The reason I've been using the export from DSS200 route is simplicity of workflow. The DCPs of trailers, shorts, conversions from BDs (with the absolute permission of rights owners and for legitimately booked shows, I hasten to add), etc. etc. is something I do at home, and then take the DCPs in, usually on large thumb drives (64GB or 128GB ones). As soon as it's ingested and verified, I regard the thumb drives as recyclable, because the DCPs are on a RAID from that point on, and therefore cannot be lost in a single hard drive failure.

So at the end of the show, we decide if there's a reasonable chance that we'll ever need to play it again. If no, delete; if yes, plug one of our archive hard drives in and copy it off. These drives live in the booth and never go home. So in order to copy the DCPs onto the archive drives without them going through the DSS200 and being stripped of their PKL files in the process, I'd need to use a separate computer do to the copying. I can - and in future will - do this, but it just makes the process a little more convoluted.

Thanks for everyone's comments.
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-19-2014, 08:31 PM:
 
Sam, we were told the DSS200 is gone in ANY configuration at this point.
 
Posted by Tim Sherman (Member # 569) on 09-19-2014, 09:19 PM:
 
Why pull it from the server at all? You have it on a thumb drive, why don't you just plug the thumb drive into a computer and copy the DCP to the archive drive you are using?
 
Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 09-20-2014, 05:06 AM:
 
I'm not trying to sound too preachy here, but... RAID is not a backup solution. Someone could still accidentally erase your content, the system could malfunction and take it with it. The RAID controller (or software RAID as in the Doremi machines) could malfunction and take the array with it, etc.

So depending on what the efforts you put into making this content are worth, you should consider some other form of backup, like a small NAS system for example or just a bunch of inexpensive external drives like you're already using. But make sure they're on there before you load it into your server.
 
Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 09-20-2014, 05:36 AM:
 
Bad news then, Brad. As you, I love the HW RAID of the DSS200.
 
Posted by Manny Montes (Member # 5639) on 09-20-2014, 09:59 AM:
 
Just out of curiosity why not get a small portable hard drive. 1TB portable drives are now tiny and relatively cheap. What I'd do is just directly put the original content (once converted to DCP) onto the portable drive, plug that drive in and copy to the server. Once you're done with playing it for the run just delete from the server and you still have the original (with all files intact) on the portable drive. You can then use your current "archive" drive as a backup and backup your portable drive once a week to your "archive" drive so that you always have a backup on hand in case the worst happens.

As said above RAID is not a backup solution, I've seen HW and SW raid controller failures (this being in the networking side of things, not specifically d-cinema).
 
Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 09-20-2014, 12:38 PM:
 
I know that RAIDs are not a backup solution: the DCPs are simply on there for the short period of time they're actually playing. In practice, I don't think I've ever wiped a memory stick before the DCP has finished playing, but I admit that I'd do so if I needed to.

The reason I used the system I did was that the alternative would mean taking portable hard drives backwards and forwards on a 64-mile commute, and the constant bouncing around probably isn't good for them. We do have a laptop that dual boots into Ubuntu (i.e. can read and write ext2 and ext3 volumes) in the booth, and so in future I'll copy DCPs directly from the stick to the archive drive using that immediately after ingestion. I just had no idea that the Dolby server ignored a component of each DCP that other servers need.
 
Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 09-20-2014, 12:38 PM:
 
Steve, Doremi does also allow export of content via the GUI.
 
Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 09-20-2014, 12:56 PM:
 
Still think, under these circumstances, a direkt copy of the distribution drive would be the best option. It will also copy the full package incl. all audio/language versions, 3D, etc., with the minimum amount of storage space. It's also a lot faster than an export from either Dolby or Doremi, and the safest option for ingest into different servers.

There are cheap disc-duplicators which will do 1:1 copies on the medium block level. This may result in under-usage of larger drives because this method will only create the original partition size on the target media, but this is no real issue as long as that drive is only used to transport a package to other systems.

Obtaining a few CRU carriers would also be a good idea.

- Carsten
 
Posted by Manny Montes (Member # 5639) on 09-20-2014, 01:59 PM:
 
quote: Leo Enticknap
The reason I used the system I did was that the alternative would mean taking portable hard drives backwards and forwards on a 64-mile commute, and the constant bouncing around probably isn't good for them. We do have a laptop that dual boots into Ubuntu (i.e. can read and write ext2 and ext3 volumes) in the booth, and so in future I'll copy DCPs directly from the stick to the archive drive using that immediately after ingestion. I just had no idea that the Dolby server ignored a component of each DCP that other servers need.
Well that makes a lot more sense then (and makes me not hate my drive as much), and its the first i've heard of it. But I've only used one dolby server, and that was in 2009 for a few months, now I'm used to DoReMi
 
Posted by Mike Renlund (Member # 4675) on 09-22-2014, 03:17 PM:
 
The Dolby DSS200i-6 that is used with a CAT745 IMB will be available going forward. No CAT862 Internal Decoder Card is included in the chassis. The unit continues to have a hardware RAID card and CRU bay for ingest.
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-22-2014, 03:32 PM:
 
And of course the next step is to completely get rid of the chassis like everyone else has done. I said three years ago this was the way the industry was moving.

Mark
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-22-2014, 03:36 PM:
 
Mark, the "industry" is welcome to move in that direction, but no thank you. You can keep it along with your GDCs. The DSS200 is the gold standard server hardware for digital cinema.
 
Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 09-22-2014, 05:27 PM:
 
I officially asked two people in sales this morning and have not heard back. I hope Mike above is correct.

I am guessing there will be a transition to Doremi hardware.
 
Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 09-23-2014, 12:27 AM:
 
Official word from Dolby is the DSS200 with internal Cat. 862 media block is discontinued and NLA. DSS200 with 745 media block is in plentiful supply.
 
Posted by Antti Nayha (Member # 4980) on 09-23-2014, 02:32 AM:
 
quote: Marco Giustini
I believe the pkl was deleted when the content was ingested till some software revision. Then I heard they wanted to change then, but I've never checked myself. It seems that they've changed the way the content is ingested but the export feature is still not transferring them
Just checked with 4.8, and Dolby's behavior remains the same:

1) The server discards all PKL, ASSETMAP and VOLINDEX files on ingestion.

2) It then checks the ingested CPL and content files and creates its own PKL, ASSETMAP and VOLINDEX files based on what it finds. These are placed under generatedPackages.

The metafiles are still perfectly valid, but they are brand new ones created by the server:

quote:
<Issuer>Dolby Laboratories, Inc.</Issuer>
<Creator>Dolby Show Manager</Creator>

 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-23-2014, 11:40 AM:
 
quote: Brad Miller
The DSS200 is the gold standard server hardware for digital cinema.
You'll have a hard time convincing any of my customers that! I always felt the DSS-200 would have actually been a decent product had it interfaced with the rest of the world's products. Sadly, it does not. It will be interesting to see if the Doremi products take that ludicrous shift or if they continue to fit right in like they always have.
 
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-23-2014, 06:38 PM:
 
I can confirm Sam's statement. DSS200i/CAT745 systems are still current and available.
 
Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 04-01-2015, 10:53 AM:
 
For the reference of anyone finding this thread on a web search who is trying to export a DCP from a DSS200 for ingest into another model of server, the step-by-step workaround is as follows.
 
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-01-2015, 11:42 AM:
 
Or to find the folder faster in the "generated packages" folder. Find the content the "Content" section of the UI (or Build, for that matter) and click on "properties" to see what its UUID number is. Don't bother writing down all of the numbers/letters...normally the first 5 or 6 should be sufficient.

Then you should be able to find the folder you want in the generatedPackages folder pretty quickly.
 
Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 04-01-2015, 05:59 PM:
 
Thanks Steve. A detail I forgot: if you're using Filezilla to make the transfer (and probably if you're using other FTP clients as well, though I haven't tried any others), you need to set the connection type to active. It's passive by default.
 
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-01-2015, 06:04 PM:
 
And transfers should be set to "binary"...don't leave it in auto.
 




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