This is topic PlusRite Lamps - Anyone used them? in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Gavin Lewarne (Member # 5397) on 11-05-2014, 05:27 AM:
 
I just received the monthly "newsletter" from DCinex (our VPF group support company) offering a new line of PlusRite lamps certified for use in their vpf funded projectors.

Our finance guy is very tempted as they are considerably cheaper than the Ushio lamps we usually purchase. DCinex claim they offer the same life and reliability and warranty cover as ushio. I must admit, their introductory offer is very tempting.

Has anyone got any feedback on this brand of lamp? experiences? As far as I can tell they are a Chinese brand.

Thanks
 
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-05-2014, 06:59 AM:
 
There is Ushio...and then everyone else is way below them. It is easier to be cheaper when you make an inferior product. It is unreasonable to think one can make a similar quality product for significantly less money. Ushio also constantly is a leader in lamp development...odds are, the others are trying to copy a design rather than develop it and know how/why it is made the way it is. I've seen that alot. If lamp design was easy, there wouldn't be such a clear cut leader in the field.
 
Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 11-05-2014, 07:39 AM:
 
There was a discussion about those lamps here before. Maybe you should ask DCinex if they're willing to take over any warranty claims if it blows up while they figure it out with the supplier...
 
Posted by Gavin Lewarne (Member # 5397) on 11-05-2014, 07:49 AM:
 
Steve - I have always fitted nothing but ushio during our 35mm days and now our digital system. I have never had a single problem with their lamps. If I was in charge of the money, I would continue to purchase them, but our Arts council funding has been significantly reduced and as a charity we have to save as much money as possible now and I am under a lot of pressure to minimize costs

Marcel - The newsletter about these new lamps was from DCInex themselves, and it very clearly stated that they will honour warranty against flicker, lamp life and explosion right up to the normal lamp hours, including reflector and lamphouse damage.

Honestly, with the financial pressure we are under, it is an extremely tempting offer. Im going to try to hold out, but at the end of the day the decision really isn't mine in this case.
 
Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 11-05-2014, 08:09 AM:
 
Gavin,

My question is who is "they" in this story? The Chinese lamp manufacturer? Because how trustworthy are they in this?
 
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-05-2014, 08:33 AM:
 
There are some areas in life where saving money bites you in the end...xenon lamps are one of those areas. The best warranty is the one you don't have to use.
 
Posted by Gavin Lewarne (Member # 5397) on 11-05-2014, 08:33 AM:
 
Marcel - That is the only question I have had, and I have already sent the same question to DCInex by email, just waiting on their reply.

Steve - Our organisation has had funding cut by 1/3rd and staff redundancies are imminent. As I said before, its not my choice, if it was, it would be Ushio. But with severe financial limitations compromises have to be made, and Projection maintenance costs are under intense scrutiny by those in charge of our finances. If they decide to go ahead with the purchase of these lamps, there isn't anything I can do about it.
 
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-05-2014, 10:29 AM:
 
Then why even ask?
 
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 11-05-2014, 11:20 AM:
 
If you haven't started tracking your lamp usage, start right now.

Keep accurate records of when lamps are installed, when they are removed, why they were changed and any notes that you can make about lamp performance. You might already have a lot of this information in the projector logs.

Put this information in a spreadsheet and break it down in terms of cost per hour.
(Price of a lamp divided by the number of hours of lamp life.). Factor in cost of labor to replace lamps that fail early. Also keep track of lost or compromised shows due to lamp problems.

If, as you say, management is determined to buy the cheaper lamps, regardless of your advice, then you can use these spreadsheets to compare overall, long-term cost of using a particular brand of lamp. After you have used a few different brands of lamps, the data should show the difference pretty clearly.

I have done cost analysis like this on two different occasions and, in my experience, there is at least a 25% increase in overall, long-term cost when using cheaper lamps and possibly 50% or more,

It often takes hard numbers to convince empty suits that buying cheaper equipment or supplies is a false economy.
 
Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 11-05-2014, 12:19 PM:
 
Well, the difference here is that the Chinese supplier guarantees the same amount of hours as USHIO. If you're doing it right and don't want to risk expensive, uncovered damages to your equipment, you're not running those lamps past their guaranteed hours anyway.

So, let's assume the supplier keeps its promises regarding lifespan. Then, in the end, it will be a lot cheaper. Both in the books and probably even in the real world.

But the thing that might suffer here is the quality of the presentation. How stable are those lamps? What about the actual brightness? And how does this brightness keep up during the production run? How good is the service? Those are the open-ended questions, but they don't immediately appear on any balance sheet...
 
Posted by Gavin Lewarne (Member # 5397) on 11-05-2014, 01:05 PM:
 
Randy, this is something I already do so I will have something to compare it to.

I log when lamps are changed, for what model and running hours every month, as well as keep a spreadsheet of Lamp output brightness (according to the light sensor in the projector)

I always change lamps when they are around 200 hours to warranty, since we use the 1.2Kw lamps we are talking warranties lifespans of 3000 hours. It happens to coincide with 1 year of average useage for our site.

If we do get one of these Plusrite lamps, it will certainly be interesting so see the brightness falloff compared to the usual Ushios I have records of.

Of course, this all depends on what Dcinex have to say about who honours the warranties should a failure occur.
 
Posted by Rick Raskin (Member # 1561) on 11-05-2014, 02:01 PM:
 
Best cost is not necessarily least cost.
 
Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 11-05-2014, 04:43 PM:
 
Tread very carefully....
 
Posted by Gavin Lewarne (Member # 5397) on 11-05-2014, 04:50 PM:
 
Pete, I fully intend to

Im waiting on response from DCInex as to who honors the warranty. If they pass it off to the Chinese our management will not go for it, I got that far with them at least.

EDIT:
Not sure if DCInex are up to something, in their newsletter they claim the projector manufacturers have tested and certified the lamps, but I cannot find any reference to Plusrite lamps in Barco Communicator, only Osram, Ushio and Philips. We are running the very latest Barco firmware.

Ill mention this to the finance people tomorrow morning, hopefully that will convince them.

EDIT2:
The plot thickens.....Forget everything I have asked about. Managers convinced (stick with Ushio)...Strange goings-on...
 
Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 11-05-2014, 05:58 PM:
 
I don't know about the others, but I'm still interested in the answer DCinex will come up with.
 
Posted by Gavin Lewarne (Member # 5397) on 11-05-2014, 06:05 PM:
 
Marcel, read the PM I just sent you for your answer.
 
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 11-05-2014, 07:08 PM:
 
That name, "PlusRite" just sort of shouts cheapness.

When I was in the music business it was an unwritten rule that if a product brand name had anything to do with music, that was a giveaway that the product was cheap. Brand names like Audition, Soundesign, Audition, Audiovox, Voice of Music....cheap stuff.

If a company had a nonmusical name, that meant you were more likely to get quality. Toshiba, Marantz, Pioneer, Cerwin Vega, Sansui, Harman Kardon, etc. Of course there were occasional exceptions... such as Panasonic was always good quality stuff.

I don't know if this same theory applies in projection equipment but it's interesting nonetheless.
 
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 11-05-2014, 08:43 PM:
 
You're doing what I would do. Gather data and make sure that your professional opinion goes on record. That's the best you can do... :|

As an aside...
Whatever happened to Superior Quartz Products?
I used to buy them quite a bit. I know the company is still in business but haven't heard from them in the cinema department in quite a while.
 
Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 11-06-2014, 01:20 AM:
 
Went on the PlusRite (China) site and it's interesting that the catalog numbering closely follows USHIO .. like the PDXL-6500B for the USHIO DXL-65BA ... with the same amount of lumens and warranty hours.
 
Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 11-06-2014, 05:18 AM:
 
quote: Gavin Lewarne
Marcel, read the PM I just sent you for your answer.
Gavin, thanks! I tried to send you a PM back but I'm not sure if it ever got there though, as I got an 550 SMTP error.

Unfortunately, I forgot to save the error message, but I guess it can be easily replicated.

quote: Mike Blakesley
That name, "PlusRite" just sort of shouts cheapness.
I agree, it sounds like a cheap miracle cleaning agent pitched by some hyperactive sales guy on your local TV shopping channel. Then again, our "Western" conception of "cheap sounding" is hard to compare to what Asians think of it. For example, LG, a somewhat respectable electronics manufacturer from South Korea is the shorthand for "Lucky Goldstar". (You may remember Goldstar TV sets, VHS tapes and other media.)
 
Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 11-06-2014, 06:17 AM:
 
It can only work the way that dcinex buys these lamps for very little money, without any warranty, or only per-lamp-exchange policy at best. Then sell them to their customers for 'somewhat' less than USHIO, OSRAM, PHILIPS so the deal becomes attractive.

Their considerable earnings then have to cover all further warranty issues that may arise, and of course they need to offer the same warranty services as USHIO, OSRAM, PHILIPS. After all, these companies do the same. A considerable amount from their higher prices goes into securing occurring warranty claims. Just that their failure score is probably better.

- Carsten
 
Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 11-07-2014, 02:52 AM:
 
Also, wondering if these PlusRite bulbs are rebranded bulbs that didn't meet QA standards of the major manufacturers, thus they bought the rejected items.
 
Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 11-07-2014, 06:38 AM:
 
I don't think so. China has a booming cinema industry. Bad enough for them that they have to buy expensive DCI gear - but quite a few manufacturers like Barco and Christie already have factories in china. When it comes to consumables, they certainly want to produce these bulbs themselves.
There are also a couple of unusual cinema audio processors available from chinese manufacturers. It's really a huge market, and they try to avoid buying products on the international price level and pay in US$ or €.

- Carsten
 
Posted by Richard Fowler (Member # 893) on 11-07-2014, 08:18 AM:
 
I remember taking a tour of the former ORC factory in California where they had employees salvaging parts on bulbs that did not meet factory spec……machined parts and xenon gas where the major expense items.
 
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-09-2014, 03:31 PM:
 
Machining the solid tungsten is expensive. Takes diamond tipped cutters to be able to do it. You have to factor in the expense of the cutters into the cost of making the lamps.

Mark
 
Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 05-05-2016, 05:43 PM:
 

It has been 543 days since the last post.


 
Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 05-05-2016, 05:43 PM:
 
Wonder if anyone here has real-life, experienced opinion about these bulbs since this thread started. Reading through the posts, I see nothing but opinions, cautions and doubt, based on nothing I can see as being based in reality.

I get that Ushio is popular here and, for reasons I can support from personal experience, Osrams are not so much so. I've used the Plusrite bulbs for the past 2 years, totaling 4 sets, and though I haven't put any kind of scientific measurement on them, they appear to work at least as well as the more-expensive Ushios I previously used. Matter of fact, where my 6.5kW Ushios almost never made warranty in my 32B, the Plusrite bulbs I've used to date have easily done so, and without the flicker and multiple striking issues I had with the Ushios at their end-of-life cycles.

In comparing 4k Ushio vs Plusrite, anecdotally, I don't notice any difference, other than cost. Both have easily made warranty and light dropoff appears to be comparable.

I really do get the fact that, once people become sold on a brand, it's nearly impossible to shake them away. I'm not necessarily a fan of Plusrite... yet... but I don't find the near-universal cautionary posts here to be rooted in any kind of practical experience... at least not that anyone has said to this point.

So... my experience has been pretty good, and I've saved quite a bit of money. The company ships quickly and has stated their warranty and damage resolution policies in writing. I've got a set of Ushios in the booth, but don't yet see any particular reason to put them in, as opposed to the Plusrites.
 
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-05-2016, 06:40 PM:
 
No idea on the Plusrite lamps, but I will say that Osrams have always given me good service in film projectors (as has Ushio) in the 2-3k sizes. I don't really have an opinion on D-cinema lamps, since almost everyone I know seems to buy Christie lamps (which seem to work fine and hit warranty hours without flickering or significant dimming).

LTI lamps were always a disaster for me with 35mm, but I don't know anyone who is still buying those.
 
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-05-2016, 11:29 PM:
 
The Osram bulbs we were supplied with for use in the Hateful Eight 70mm systems a few months ago were simply awful. I've never seen such a flickerfest, and yes it was all machines (Christie SLC, Strong Highlight II and Cinemeccannica). Every year it's the same thing I hear "oh we've fixed the exploding problems" and "oh we've fixed the flickering issues" and "oh we've fixed the ignition problems". Yeah, yeah, blah, blah, blah. Anyone running Osrams should try ANY other bulb (probably even including a PlusRite) to see what they are missing. I've not seen a good performing Osram since the 90s and I've never had to outright FIGHT a company so much to get them to honor a warranty either.

Disclaimer, I have Christie SLCs in my screening room and run film regularly with noticeably higher brightness. I am not confusing the statement above with "film flicker vs. digital flicker".
 
Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 05-05-2016, 11:32 PM:
 
Interesting. I had uniformly terrible service from Osram. Granted, because of the experience, I tended to avoid them. The few times they landed in my booth, they did not serve well.

Superior Quartz was pretty good. Their 7kW bulbs were built like bulldozers. Not sure why they felt the need to do that.

Christies were good in my Big Sky lamphouses... both 4 & 7kW sizes.
 
Posted by Brian DeCiancio (Member # 1422) on 05-07-2016, 01:58 PM:
 
I've been using Plusrite for more than 2 years. Everything from 1.8k to 6.5k among 16 screens.

On the rare occasion I've had an issue (2 that I can recall, only a short time from end of warranty hours), Plusrite immediately sent a new bulb, no hassles whatsoever.

The 6.5k from the other companies never made it anywhere near end of warranty hours before noticeable light drop-off and flicker.
 
Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 05-10-2016, 07:01 PM:
 
Bet strong exhaust has to be in play with the endurance from any lamp manufacturer of high discharge xenon lamps...get that heat out of the surroundings.

-Monte
 




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