Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: NEC Service Pack 4.214 issues...

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-09-2014, 03:38 PM:

Anyone gone to this level and had a gray screen and other issues with projectors going on screen after the update to 4.214. I have two sites with this issue and I just took one site back to the 4.212 firmware and system data and that seemed to correct the gray screen problem. 4.212 is a comprehensive update while 4.214 only updates system firmware, System Data and the Enigma to the new 1.8 Enigma Pro package. I hope T.I. didn't blow the Enigma update. I am thinking though that the system Firmware or Data is no good.I have only taken a few projectors that are actually using their enigmas to 4.214.

Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-09-2014, 04:18 PM:

I believe all of our NECs are on 4.214 and we are having zero issues with it. Almost all of our Enigma based systems are on 1.8.24 (Christie was bringing up the rear on that one) and there have been ZERO issues with 1.8.24.

We have NC900C, NC1200 and NC2000s all running on 4.214. The mix is about 50/50 Dolby servers and GDC.

Note too, NEC made Enigma 1.8.24 as a separate upgrade if you desire to just apply that one part. However, I think something else is at play here. We've been on 4.214 for quite some time now (at least 4-months).

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-09-2014, 06:31 PM:

Well, I now have three systems at two different sites with this issue. The servers are all HD-SDI connected servers. To get rid of the gray screen you just have to hit the desired format button and then it plays fine. On the one projector I reverted the Firmware and Data back to 4.212 on it is working fine. Did you get your firmware off the NEC site or the Strong site?

Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-09-2014, 07:17 PM:

I ALWAYS use the NEC site. Why 2 step it? Plus, with the NEC site, you get everything straight from the source with all of the documentation.

If this was a trend...I would have seen it by now. I have 4.214 running with GDC servers on 4 sites (with HDSDI)...NONE have reported that problem yet. All are on current GDC software but one that is still on 7.83 (not on a VPF plan).

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-09-2014, 07:45 PM:

Well, there IS a problem! Friends down under have also had the exact same issue! Beware!

Mark

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 11-09-2014, 08:15 PM:

I'm glad for once, when there was a problem, it was a REAL problem and not some bonehead thing I did! [Big Grin]

Posted by Joe Elliott (Member # 4006) on 11-09-2014, 08:42 PM:

I've only seen it happen when going to an alternative content format. Has anyone had it happen when going to a cinema format? Also this was on 2 projectors that both have legacy boards, not IMB's. GDC servers. Pushing the back up in worked for a few days, then it started again. The second projector didn't do it until 3 weeks after update. It is a white test pattern, the projector however, does not show that it is displaying a test pattern. It is the white test pattern, no masking applied, so it overshoots the screen. This tells me it is probably coming from the ICP, as that is where the test patterns reside. Tried re updating multiple times, with no effect.

I'm not upgrading any other projector with it, I'll wait for the next update.

Posted by Chase Taylor (Member # 778) on 11-09-2014, 08:45 PM:

Mark

I'm having the same problem at a site with Dolby servers.

If memory serves me its actually loading the "RGB-12bit-Full Screen 50 Pct Grey" test pattern.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 11-09-2014, 08:52 PM:

quote: Joe Elliott
I've only seen it happen when going to an alternative content format. Has anyone had it happen when going to a cinema format? Also this was on 2 projectors that both have legacy boards, not IMB's. GDC servers. Pushing the back up in worked for a few days, then it started again. The second projector didn't do it until 3 weeks after update. It is a white test pattern, the projector however, does not show that it is displaying a test pattern. It is the white test pattern, no masking applied, so it overshoots the screen. This tells me it is probably coming from the ICP, as that is where the test patterns reside. Tried re updating multiple times, with no effect.

Well it happened here in cinema format (scope) and the gray screen seemed to have a flicker to it. It reminded me of in film days when a diode would go out, except the flicker was faster.

Our situation didn't overshoot the screen either, it was the same size as a regular scope picture. Pressing the format button cleared the problem.

I tried inserting an extra format cue into our playlist but that didn't help it -- you had to actually press the button to fix it.

But, all good now after reverting to the earlier firmware. (Thanks Mark!)

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-10-2014, 05:58 AM:

I'll be on the lookout for it...thanks Mark!

Has anyone reported the issue to NEC? Since this update had the Enigma 1.8...I was pretty fast adopting it so we are nearly 4-months into it without incident. Since NEC has hung onto 4.214 for nearly 4-months (still the current version) I would presume that they are not receiving a rash of complaints either.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 11-10-2014, 09:05 AM:

Do we now wether that might occur on all NEC models with the 4.214 update, or only on select models, e.g. NC900? Wondering what that could be when another format cue from the server doesn't fix it, but a format button press, which in theory should do exactly the same thing.

- Carsten

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 11-10-2014, 11:53 AM:

I was thinking the two format cues that I put in might have been too close together - the machine might have still been "thinking" while the second cue went by.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-10-2014, 01:20 PM:

Mike...my simple rule with NEC is 2-seconds for a douser command and 16-20 seconds for ANYTHING else. NEC does not multi-task well. In the past with odd NEC issues (had a problem where it wouldn't shift a scope image on the imager)...I've switched between formats on each format change to ensure it reselected it...thereby eating 40-seconds of time [Roll Eyes]

But seriously...no reported incidents for us yet and we have NC900, NC1200 and NC2000s. Almost all are HDSDI systems but a couple are now IMBs.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-10-2014, 01:44 PM:

I think by going back to 4.212 Data and Firmware only and leaving enigma 1.8 in there it is now ok. Obviously, there is a bug in 4.214 data or firmware of some sort.

Carsten... This might affect any NEC projector that has an Enigma in it... IE: Legacy Module. If you only have an IMB then I reccomend you completely skip 4.214 for now. 4.212 was a good version. If you want to you can update JUST the enigma manually assuming you are at 4.212.

UPDATE: I talked to Tim Elwell @ Strong about this and he'd like to know what it says on the LCD screen when the gray screen comes up. Does it say some other format other than what was selected or does it say the format your cue called actually for?

Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-10-2014, 03:22 PM:

Mark...had he heard of the problem?

From the Release notes.

"01. Implement Function to avoid DMD Brighter /Darker Pixels Issue
TI has suggested the F/E unit generates a gray raster pattern for DMD during light-off state."

I wonder if it has something to do with it.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 11-10-2014, 04:20 PM:

I've seen something like that when the lamp goes on if the dowser is open. Then after several seconds it disappears and black is taking over - or the picture.
It could be what the release note says, the DMDs are kept into a grey status when the lamp is on, which you can see when the lamp is turned on. But in my case, just for a few seconds- can't remember how much time though.

Mark, did you just try waiting a little?

I was wondering what is that brighter/darker pixel issue?

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 11-10-2014, 05:40 PM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
I talked to Tim Elwell @ Strong about this and he'd like to know what it says on the LCD screen when the gray screen comes up. Does it say some other format other than what was selected or does it say the format your cue called actually for?

Mark - the LCD display showed the cue that was selected.

Everything looked absolutely normal except for the picture being a flickery gray rectangle.

quote: Steve Guttag
my simple rule with NEC is 2-seconds for a douser command and 16-20 seconds for ANYTHING else.

Really? I have put cues for just about everything within 3 to 5 seconds of each other without a problem. Maybe I've just been lucky? [Smile]

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 11-10-2014, 06:01 PM:

All my projectors are currently running 4.212 on my NC2000C's. Is there anything in 4.214 which necessitates an update?

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 11-10-2014, 06:07 PM:

Oh, definitely, Enigma 1.8. Search the forum. As it fixes even bricked Enigmas, it is probably not absolutely necessary to install it immediately, but I wouldn't wait for too long. At least you should have it around in case...

http://www.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=001924#000000

- Carsten

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 11-11-2014, 04:40 PM:

Thanks for the heads up on the cue Mike!

Well, if you are running IMB's instead of dual link HD-SDI then you need not worry at all. However, if you have a legacy module you would want to update it at some point anyway because past Enigma firmware was problematic. You can simply install Enigma Pro 1.8 manually and skip the buggy System Data and Firmware part of 4.214 if you want.

Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-24-2014, 06:14 AM:

NEC has posted SP 4.215

No mention of the above problem of grey image. It addresses a serial number mismatch problem and a USB problem (if you didn't have a USB stick and tried to save to a USB).

On the DATA side: "01.Added the next certified lamps.
PDXL-4000-N (PLUSRITE)"

I find it interesting on that on the previous update it was supposed to address a problem:

"01. Implement Function to avoid DMD Brighter /Darker Pixels Issue
TI has suggested the F/E unit generates a gray raster pattern for DMD during light-off state."

That was for firmware 4.262 which was part of Service Pack 4.214.

So clearly they thought they were fixing a potential problem identified by TI by generating the gray pattern while the lamp is off. My guess is that the pattern isn't cleared when the lamp is turned on. Again, my customers have not had the problem show itself (yet) but clearly it has affected some systems.

Have those of you that HAVE had the problem gone through the formal process of reporting a problem to NEC or their distributors? I've found the best way to get problems fixed is to flood the manufacturer with each and every incident and give them logs with it. Being the squeaky wheel can affect change. I had an issue with NEC on some of the early SP 4.x.x where the DMD image shift wasn't working for top masking screens. I went berserk with NEC and issued them logs and each and every time the problem showed itself so they had to live some of the pain too. I was then issued a beta version of the firmware (not a full service pack) and when I reported that it fixed the problem...in pretty short order, a new service pack was issued that had the fix in it.

To some degree, we are all beta testers due to our small numbers as compared to computer systems and there will be things that slip through a manufacturer with a test set up that 100,000 screens running 5+ shows a day will find. Even if it only affects 1% of the shows, the number will be significant. Using my rough numbers...a 1% problem will show up in 5000 shows a day around the world (though in any one complex, let alone in a test system, it may take quite some time to show up).

If you have a problem...that is clearly software related...start pulling logs and start flooding the manufacturer with the data...if you are having a problem, so are others.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 12-24-2014, 04:34 PM:

Thanks Steve for the useful information.
I had mentioned the release note on the other page but in my case it was also going away when the lamp was fully on. I could only see it if the "lamp on dowser" was disabled.

Thanks for letting us know of the new Christmas release.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-24-2014, 04:47 PM:

Yes, I reported it to both NEC and to Wrong. The issue doesn't appear in the logs. Just shows that the same macro had to be selected again. I had the problem at a number of sites so I took them back to 4.212 but left the new Enigma update in there. That stopped all my complaints. So there definitely WAS an issue of some sort going on. I may try 4.215 in those very same projectors in the near future and see what happens.

Merry Christmas to all!

Mark

Posted by Phil Ranucci (Member # 3820) on 12-24-2014, 07:32 PM:

Since we have 2 NEC machines, I've been following this post. When I logged into the Strong site, I didn't see 4.215 in the service pack
are, last one is 4.214. I can't seem to find the NEC site that was mentioned as a better source for updates. Got a link?
Thanks and Merry Christmas.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 12-29-2014, 05:29 PM:

Found this on NEC support page, does that apply?

quote:
When the projector is turned on and power on, Gray testpattern may be appeared.
Please select a title when the Gray testpattern is appeared. The Gray test patten is solved.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-29-2014, 09:38 PM:

That would tend to "fix" the grey pattern that is being selected with the lamps are off...this was introduced in SP 4.214.

That sounds like an admission of the potential problem though.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 12-30-2014, 05:19 AM:

Exactly. Not sure if the "the gray test pattern is solved" means that the issue has been fixed with the latest sw release or a Japanese version of "Now you have selected a Title, the gray pattern should have disappeared". Who knows [Smile]

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-30-2014, 09:24 AM:

Where on the support page did you find this? I've looked and haven't located it yet. NEC does tend to label things such that one may not understand what they are getting at on the first glance.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-30-2014, 12:37 PM:

Ah, but there still IS a problem! No, the server didn't miss the macro cue because everyone is running ads on a different macro, usually Macro 7. The show starts rolling automatically and the server automation cue selects the macro needed for the show and that was when the gray screen appeared. Then the (projectionist) re-selects the same macro again to get the image on screen. And no, the server didn't miss the macro cue because remember everyone is running ads on a different macro.

Mark

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 12-30-2014, 12:50 PM:

Steve, I believe it was on the "news" on the main page.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-30-2014, 01:02 PM:

I dunno...I've seen GDCs miss Macro calls because they were busy opening up the port on the projector (same is true when connected to the JSD100). I wish the GDC didn't always keep the port open.

Still haven't found that listing of the problem.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 12-30-2014, 02:14 PM:

assuming we are on the same page - literally - it's on the main support page, under "Important notes", second entry, you can't miss it.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-30-2014, 03:55 PM:

Must be looking at a different page. I've tried both the secure site as well as the consumer site...still can't find it.

Posted by Phil Ranucci (Member # 3820) on 01-01-2015, 02:00 PM:

Besides the Strong FTP site, what site are you referencing?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-01-2015, 03:41 PM:

There are other sites that are direct to NEC but I believe one has to be a dealer to access them. And from what I can tell, the Americas are handled by a different site than other parts of the world. Marco and I have discovered we are going to different direct NEC sites. Hence, we were not seeing the same things.

The Strong site is going to be whatever Strong transfers from NEC and Strong gets to determine who has access to it. Last I checked (and it has been quite a while), Strong does not post the release notes with the service packs which is something that NEC does post on their support site(s).

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-14-2015, 08:54 AM:

Ta Da...NEC issued SP 4.216. "The Fix" is the grey pattern issue. So ask for it by name 4.216.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 08-11-2015, 09:07 AM:

So NEC released 4.217 a few weeks ago that fixes a bug where the projector wouldn't boot up if the date was reset to 1/1/2000. I don't see anything else fixed/added in the update.

The odd thing is, NEC removed from download 4.215 and 4.216. This I find odd only in that NEC doesn't normally remove versions. One can still download all of the way back to 3.004 of the auto update versions (auto update started with 3.000) and 1.03 of the firmware of the discrete versions.

And while you may think they are just protecting you from dangerous versions, then why would they leave 4.214 that had the grey screen issue that 4.216 effectively fixed? I wonder what else is in the two service packs that got them banned! Either that or the refuse to boot up problem is so dreaded and pervasive that they wanted to ensure that it would go away without any new incidents. I have not experienced it, myself but I could see where that would ruin a day.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 08-11-2015, 11:06 AM:

As Freud used to say "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" [Smile]

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-11-2015, 11:33 AM:

The strange thing about 4.214 is that it only affected certain projectors, not all. Out of 335 NEC's I look after that were running with it I only had it happen on five and it only happened if the macro was changed by external automation. Yes, I did finally see the gray screen issue in person. I also never had issues with 4.215 and I skipped 4.216. I have about a third running on 4.217 and no issues so far.

Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 08-11-2015, 02:03 PM:

Most of ours are on 4.216 and no problems with it. I'll move to 4.217 during the normal course of updates but I'm not jumping on it right away unless there is some sort of pending doom.