Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Lost my first shows due to equipment failure

This is topic Lost my first shows due to equipment failure in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 11-21-2014, 03:43 PM:

I watched Dumb and Dumber To by myself yesterday afternoon and everything worked great.

I started the regular show last night (Interstellar) and everything looks like it's being played through a yellow and blue filter. I ultimately had to give everyone a refund and send them home.

The colour test patterns look fine, but anything played from the server looks yellow and blue, and objects have a faint yellow ghost image beside them.

I talked to the techs who look after my equipment and, after consulting with Christie, they told me to try re-seating the ICP board. Nothing changed.

They are now sending me a new ICP board on the bus. Hopefully it will arrive in time for me to change it out and have a show tomorrow night; I'm definitely out of luck for tonight's show, though.

This is the first time I've lost a show due to equipment failure since I got my digital cinema equipment. I've had a couple of power failures, the movie didn't show up a few times, and I've had issues that I managed to solve in time to get the show started a bit later than it should have been, but never had to cancel the show before.

This digital cinema stuff is frustrating to troubleshoot since it's all a black box. With film I could at least narrow down what the problem is -- there's a doodad that isn't spinning and it should be, therefore the problem is here. Digital? It doesn't work. Why? No idea. Send in the log files and see what the experts can tell me.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 11-21-2014, 04:03 PM:

Welcome to the club.

I've replaced fan boards, rectifiers, network cards, the portable hard drive storage units, hard drives themselves, upgraded servers, and amplifiers in the first year at my new location being a 15plex.

We did lose a light engine, but the contracted tech came out and did that install in as well as a gone coolant pump.

Guess that's the reason I got hired since this stuff doesn't scare me like it does to the mgmt team.

And, it's just beginning.

Good luck - Monte

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 11-21-2014, 04:11 PM:

Uhm... everything is possible but the test patterns are generated on the ICP as well. Did you try the DVI input?

Posted by Stefan Vogels (Member # 5573) on 11-21-2014, 04:53 PM:

I would try reseating the PIB or inputboard and ICP.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 11-21-2014, 05:04 PM:

If it is the ICP, it must be on the input side of things... As Marco already put it, the test patterns were also created on the ICP.

quote: Frank Cox
This digital cinema stuff is frustrating to troubleshoot since it's all a black box.

The great thing is, it's supposed to be a black box, courtesy of the Copyright Police.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 11-21-2014, 05:08 PM:

One Barco machines you can create patterns on the HDSDI board, which is quite useful to properly check the ICP board.
In your case I think a DVI input would be helpful

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-21-2014, 05:18 PM:

The Barco also has a test generator on the Cinema Controller (DVI board) too so yes, you can see where the problem may be.

You didn't specify all of your equipment. Test patterns looking good ALMOST NEVER means it is the ICP. I would be looking to the PIB myself or possibly your server. If you have HDSDI cables...then the PIB and even the Link Decryptor are possible causes of the issue...that is if the signal is clean from the server.

I have had the server cause the issue with color on one of its HDSDI outputs...put the server in "3D" mode to drive 4:2:2 color on both outputs and then change the input config on the projector to be looking for that to get "normal" color.

I would be prepared for a non-ICP failure but hope that it is only so that you have the proper replacement module tomorrow.

Good luck.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 11-21-2014, 07:23 PM:

I sent in the advanced interrogator logs and I guess that's what they have based this fix on. I sure hope it turns out that I'm replacing the correct part.

Two other details that may be important: The white part of the picture is still fine -- anything that's supposed to be white in a scene is, indeed, still white. Also, I got this error message after watching the show by myself yesterday afternoon -- it apparently showed up after the projector cool-down since it wasn't there when I went into the projection room right after the movie was over and it was there when I went back to turn off the cooling fan:

Blue Satellite Link Error Critical
ICP Reported System Error Critical

I rebooted the projector, the error went away and it said "system ok". Which wasn't the case, obviously, when I tried to start the regular show last night.

I've seen "blue satellite" errors similar to that on a few occasions in the past, but rebooting the projector always made it go away and it never seemed to affect anything or be a real problem. According to my notes, the last "blue satellite" error I got was about a year and a half ago.

I'm answering my "office phone" non-stop today. I put a message on my what's playing answering machine and the website stating that there is no show tonight due to technical problems but I guess that's not good enough. I've talked to at least fifty people over the past two hours and assured them that there is, indeed, no show tonight. Of course, the place that they get my number from is either the answering machine or the website, where they were just told the same thing. I wonder how many of these folks were actually planning to come to the show and how many are just saying, "hey, this is a new thing -- lets get more details".

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 11-21-2014, 09:31 PM:

Again, welcome to the club. We've put in 3 light engines in our first year and we are a single screen! Also replaced a board. Hoping to hell any other warranty repairs happen during the warranty period, but don't like losing days waiting on parts.

Good luck with yours.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 11-22-2014, 07:12 AM:

If you remove blue from the picture you get yellowish light, so that makes sense.

I would try re-seating the light engine LEQ (do I remember the name right? the board where the light engine connects to). What happens if you run the R G B calibration patterns? Those are generated ON the formatters.

Anyway, if you now have a blue formatter link issue, a new ICP makes more sense. Next, it would be a new light engine I'm afraid.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-22-2014, 07:53 AM:

So while we are waiting...what server are you using and are you using HDSDI or an IMB for DCPs?

Now with the Interrogator logs, one might see where there were a high number of communication issues or log entries about the blue satellite board.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 11-22-2014, 10:28 AM:

quote: Marco Giustini
I would try re-seating the light engine LEQ (do I remember the name right? the board where the light engine connects to). What happens if you run the R G B calibration patterns? Those are generated ON the formatters.

Unfortunately I don't know how to do either of those things. Yet, anyway.

quote: Steve Guttag
what server are you using and are you using HDSDI or an IMB for DCPs?

My server is a GDC SX2001A and as far as I know it just connects directly to the projector (Christie CP2210). I've never had anything other than the server connected to the projector so I don't have any way to play a blue ray or whatever else to see how that would look.

Hopefully the bus depot phones me in short order here so I can zip out and pick up that board and put this thing back together again.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 11-22-2014, 10:34 AM:

A new ICP will probably not work until the software is reinstalled. It might, but I haven't installed one without mismatch errors coming up: this can be a simple re-install of the latest version you have in the TPC or it can be several hours of installing various upgrade steps. I would call Christie with the list of mismatches and get their advice before proceeding, if it doesn't just plug in and work.
It's a good idea to reseat (remove an inch or so and replace) all the boards since you have the cage open anyway.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 11-22-2014, 11:33 AM:

As Dave says, you will likely need to reinstall the ICP software - it will match the formatters' one.

Don't you have a DVI input on your projector? Plug a DVD/BD player and select the relevant DVI macro on the touch panel!

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 11-22-2014, 01:02 PM:

The current ICP isn't completely dead yet. So, it should be possible to back up the settings from it.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-22-2014, 02:18 PM:

He'll NEED the backup of the ICP...think about it...all of the SCREEN and PCF files reside there...so bits and pieces will be missing without making a back up of those.

With Christie, the last update and version of the software installed stays on the TPC unless someone went out of their way to delete it so the TPC should have what he needs to get the ICP to the same software.

Okay...so you have a GDC...do you have a pair of COAX cables feeding into the PIB module with a blank cover plate between the PIB and the ICP or do you have a GDC module between the PIB and the ICP with a honkin' PICe cable coming up there with a largish metal connector on it?

If it is coax...the problem may be the mediablock in the server itself...there is supposed to be a cooling fan on it...in the rear of the server there will be a grate where one of the card slots could be and there should be a decent flow of air coming out of it. If the Mediablock overheats...all bets are off as to what it will be putting out.

If you have an IMB...I would reseat that, for sure too. It feeds the signal to the ICP so it too can muck the image up.

If you have a BluRay player and can get an HDMI to DVI cable...then you could hook the BluRay up directly to the DVI and see if the image problem persists...if not...definitely not the ICP.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 11-22-2014, 06:45 PM:

His website mentions there are no shows tonight, so the ICP either didn't materialize yet or didn't solve the problem.

quote: Marco Giustini
I would try re-seating the light engine LEQ (do I remember the name right? the board where the light engine connects to). What happens if you run the R G B calibration patterns? Those are generated ON the formatters.

He mentions the test patterns (generated on the ICP) to be looking as it is supposed to look. So, I guess the light engine is working fine.

quote: Steve Guttag
He'll NEED the backup of the ICP...think about it...all of the SCREEN and PCF files reside there...so bits and pieces will be missing without making a back up of those.

If he loses those, he might be better off calling the installer as he has to do those settings all over again.

I guess it's a good standard practice to make a backup of those files now and then (and keep them somewhere you can find them). A totally bricked ICP isn't entirely unheard of...

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 11-22-2014, 11:19 PM:

Back in business!

Got a call from the bus depot late tonight, so I hoofed it out there, picked up the new ICP board, brought it back here and installed it.

In the immortal words of Wayne, "SCHWING!"

Now I've got a picture, with proper colours and everything!

I have a couple of minor issues that don't seem to affect my ability to actually play the movies.

1. The red error lights are on the projector and I have this message: Warning: ICP Software Version Mismatch

2. My flat picture is very slightly off-center (by one and a half inches, I measured it) and the scope picture is slightly too big since there is about an inch of picture that overlaps onto the screen masking. Based on what you folks told me earlier in this thread, I gather that I need to re-load the screen files. I'm pretty sure that the techs who look after my machine have all of that stuff backed up at their office, so I sent them an email and hopefully I'll have everything back to perfect once again sometime tomorrow.

I'm now back up and running; back to the regular movie schedule tomorrow night.

[Big Grin]

Happy dance... [Big Grin]

Now I'll get a break from answering the phone, too. [Smile]

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 11-23-2014, 02:17 AM:

Good to know you're up-and-running again. And yeah, I can imagine the frustration of answering all those calls and telling them all the same, especially if you want to get some other work done. Can't you get some kind of phone answering service or other "phone monkey" for those kind of situations?

The version mismatch is indeed due to a wrong software version on the ICP. You need to get that in-line with the firmware of your projector.

If you didn't copy the SCREEN and PCF files from the old ICP, you're actually lucky the result is usable. I don't know what your arrangements are, but hold on to that old ICP, as the tech will need it to get the configuration files.

Maybe also ask him to create a backup of those files on an USB stick and store that away for future use.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 11-23-2014, 04:50 AM:

Didn't you save the settings as advised? It's a piece of cake on a Christie. re. the software, it's been already discussed. You're lucky you have a picture on screen!

Posted by Jarod Reddig (Member # 6363) on 11-23-2014, 05:10 AM:

Great to hear Frank!! [beer]

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 11-23-2014, 12:48 PM:

Question: Was this a warranty issue? And if not.....it'll be interesting to hear how much a digital repair costs!

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 11-23-2014, 01:57 PM:

I'm pretty sure that the techs I deal with have a copy of all of that stuff so I'm just waiting for them to tell me what they want me to do next. I hesitate to get too carried away with doing things that's not at their direction, for obvious reasons.

They told me to pull the card and change it and told me how they wanted me to go about doing that. I pulled the card and changed it. Now it works again, mostly.

My machine is no longer under warranty so this fix is on my dime. They told me to send the old card back to them for a return credit.

I have no idea how much this is going to end up costing, but it's got to be cheaper than a new projector.

quote: Marcel Birgelen
I can imagine the frustration of answering all those calls and telling them all the same, especially if you want to get some other work done. Can't you get some kind of phone answering service or other "phone monkey" for those kind of situations?

I don't think you realize just how small my theatre really is. It's just me and my wife. Occasionally it's just me by myself if it isn't a particularly busy night.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 11-23-2014, 02:32 PM:

Mike...parts prices vary WILDLY for the projectors based on manufacturer. The ICP is made by TI so you have TI's markup as well as the OEM projector company. Christie is actually pretty reasonable on their prices but this will still be in the multiple thousand dollar range.

Christie also offers "Refurb" boards so there is a way to save there.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 11-23-2014, 03:39 PM:

quote: Frank Cox
I don't think you realize just how small my theatre really is. It's just me and my wife. Occasionally it's just me by myself if it isn't a particularly busy night.

I do realize that, but sometimes it can be someone you know or an external service that you pay a few bucks and just forward your phone to. Off course, I don't know about the availability of such services in your area, it was just a thought, I've used such services in the past mostly successfully.