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Posted by Daniel Schulz (Member # 1881) on 12-03-2014, 12:49 PM:
 
Well this is certainly interesting:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/behind-screen/sensory-assault-dolby-takes-imax-753479?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_term=hollywoodreporter_breakingnews&utm_campaign=THR%20Breaking%20News_2014-12-03%2000%3A00%3A00_acouch

Dolby, the company whose name is synonymous with sound, is looking to make some noise in the world of images. The brand is set to launch Dolby Cinema, a premium, large-format theater experience that could challenge large-format leader Imax.

Dolby is the world's top brand in theater sound. Its new Atmos immersive sound, which was introduced in 2012, has been installed in roughly 700 theaters worldwide, and its fiscal 2014 revenue of $960.2 million is more than three times that of Imax. But Imax boasts more than 800 theaters worldwide, and Dolby sees an opportunity to move in on that turf.

Dolby Cinema will include special design elements — like signature entrances that can be programmed to reflect the movie that is playing — as well as giant screens and, of course, Atmos sound. But what's really piquing the interest of filmmakers is the system's ability to project "high dynamic range," a process in which whites appear whiter and blacks blacker. Gravity's Oscar-winning cinematographer Emmanuel Lubezki, for one, has said he's eager to make use of HDR. In fact, many insiders from Hollywood's technology community believe that consumers will see a noticeable difference with HDR, compared with the more widely touted "Ultra HD" 4K resolution and high frame rates.

Initially, Dolby's new projection system will use two Christie 6P 4K laser projectors for increased brightness (at press time Dolby expected to reach 31 FootLamberts for 2D and 14 FootLamberts for 3D) along with some proprietary Dolby technology, as well as the Dolby 3D system for stereo movies. Next spring, the system, co-developed with Christie, will introduce updated laser projectors and playback technology that will enable the system to project "Dolby Vision," the newest Dolby format, which combines HDR with some proprietary color secret sauce. (At this year's Consumer Electronics Show, Dolby also introduced Dolby Vision for TV.)

Earlier this year, Dolby quietly previewed its system at the Vine Theatre in Hollywood for leading directors, cinematographers and studio executives. More recently, it has staged demos at the Harmony Gold theater in Los Angeles. The first Dolby Cinema is now set to open in early December at the new JT Cinemas complex in Eindhoven, Netherlands. San Francisco-based Dolby is offering a profit-sharing deal to theater owners, who are expected to raise ticket prices. JT Cinemas' managing director Ron Sterk says that while the adult ticket price for his theater's standard auditoriums is about $12.50, the price for Dolby Cinema will be about $18.

JT plans to open additional Dolby Cinema auditoriums in the Netherlands, including a second in June and a third in late 2015, according to Sterk. The system's early adopters also include the UCI/Cinesa La Maquinista complex in Barcelona.

Dolby will supply theaters with the equipment, which is not inexpensive — the projectors alone run several hundred thousand dollars each — while the theater would cover the cost of the buildout. "It's not cheap, but we think the economics work," Dolby senior vp cinema Doug Darrow tells The Hollywood Reporter, noting "it has to have a meaningful screen count."

Meanwhile, Imax also is in the process of launching a laser-projection-based system for its auditoriums. And Technicolor has publicly said that it, too, is working on a way to deliver HDR to the cinema using developing laser-projection technology.

While Dolby lines up theaters in the U.S., it's busy closing studio partnerships to ensure movies will be created in Dolby Vision during postproduction. Film cameras and high-end digital cinema cameras, such as the Arri Alexa and Sony F65, can currently produce enough picture information to generate HDR images. Numerous postproduction-technology makers either support or have committed to support the Dolby Vision format.

"We are talking to all the studios. There's interest," says Darrow.

Disney is likely to be an early candidate, with J.J. Abrams' Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Dec. 18, 2015) waiting in the wings, as well as Brad Bird's Tomorrowland. And since Disney's 2012 Pixar hit Brave was the first film released with Dolby Atmos sound, it wouldn't be surprising if Pixar's next release, Inside Out, helps launch the Dolby Cinema brand with much fanfare when it opens in June.
 

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Posted by Mark Campbell (Member # 4411) on 12-03-2014, 01:34 PM:
 
Floating screen. That must mean no masking. Count me out.
 

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Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 12-03-2014, 01:52 PM:
 
Yep, masking is sadly considered unnecessary gadgetry nowadays... You would expect Dolby to understand the importance, but I guess they're not making money on it so they don't care.

Also, this "HDR" concept will mess with the "visual DNA" of movies, maybe even more than HFR will ever do.

Once the JT cinema in Eindhoven opens, I will put some pictures up here and provide details regarding the real life implementation of this Dolby Premium Cinema Concept.

Still, when it comes to "immersive* cinema experiences", you should trust Dolby more than IMAX... Also, although they're bragging about it for years now, the first laser powered IMAX theater has yet to materialize...

* Yeah, that word again.
 

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Posted by Jarod Reddig (Member # 6363) on 12-03-2014, 08:16 PM:
 
I had seen this on Twitter today and thought it was interesting. First thing that came to my mind too was the masking. I like the idea of the seating and the room design the best. I agree I would rather trust Dolby than IMAX.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-03-2014, 08:43 PM:
 
Dolby has been working with super-high contrast in monitors for some time now. They are now bringing it to DLP projectors where incredibly high contrast ratio DLP projectors can finally bring this to the cinema. That is why they can go up to the high white levels. This is something people have had on TVs, slides...etc. for years. I think it could be awesome if it ever filters down to the every day cinema. Then again, you'd have to get people on board with putting in a system that will double-triple the light output.

However, I think something that is going to plague the bulk of this sort of roll out is the cost. I just don't see cinema owners clamoring for more means to spend money to show movies. And, like it or not, it isn't the technology that is/is not brining people in. It is, has been and always will be...the story...and Hollywood just can't be counted on for those. The movies have to be COMPETENTLY made, for sure and the better you make it be greater the enjoyment...but if you have a dud movie to start with...all of the technology you throw at it will do a damn thing.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-03-2014, 10:09 PM:
 
Well fuck that. If they can't understand the importance of masking then clearly they don't know what they are doing. Masking is NOT an option for a quality presentation. For a company that is trying to push higher contrast they should be smart enough to understand this.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-04-2014, 12:26 AM:
 
I can understand why Dolby is pursuing their Dolby Cinema concept from a marketing-sales perspective. And, judging from what I've read in the Hollywood Reporter article and seen in Dolby's 1 minute promotion video on Dolby Cinema the concept seems more driven by marketing rather than simply making the movie going experience as good as it can be.

The floating screen with no masking, halo lighted with LEDs or whatever, is a pretty big turn-off. It looks like a giant sized 1970's era projection screen TV. Bring back the masking. Better yet, bring back the layers of curtains too.

Dolby's cinema products, like Dolby Atmos, Dolby 3D and Dolby 7.1 have received next to nothing in terms of promotional support from both movie studios and exhibitors. The brands movie-goers see most often these days is IMAX and Real-D. That's about it. So it's obvious Dolby had to do something to make a high priced concept and make deals to give movie studios some of that tasty premium priced ticket money to get the Dolby brand front and center once again on movie posters and movie trailers.

It's still going to be a very hard sell to get movie theater operators on board with it.

The growth of "private label" premium big screen concepts (RPX, XD, Prime, etc.) movie chains have been developing in-house is clear evidence they're not all that keen having extra "partners." They don't like giving companies like IMAX or Dolby a huge cut of their box office take and kowtowing to various demands for everything from theater construction to bookings and marketing.

I also have to wonder how theater operators will feel toward Dolby and their cinema products. Dolby didn't wait much time at all to shift Dolby Atmos, a really high priced cinema product, into the consumer space. And now Dolby is literally going to be competing against at least some other theater operators with Dolby Cinema.

We also can't forget how the content from Hollywood has been performing lately. Some of the big theater chains aren't doing so hot. Maybe the public is starting to get tired of "Save The Cat" template-generated movies. The movies probably need to get a whole lot better and sell more tickets to get theaters on board with another high priced movie-going concept.

Is the general public even going to understand just what Dolby Cinema is and how it justifies a $6-$8 price premium? They sort of get the hype behind "IMAX," even if they're arguably being lied to in the process. Most people associate Dolby with surround sound and noise reduction. How much of the movie-going public is suffering from ticket price fatigue?

It's not going to be so easy to get movie productions to generate their content with Dolby Vision, Dolby Atmos and Dolby Cinema altogether in mind.

Right now not all that many movies are mixed in Dolby Atmos, and of the movies mixed in it not many really utilize the format very well. If you can't tell the difference between an Atmos mix and an "ordinary" 5.1 or 7.1 mix then what is the point?

Now we're going to expect movies to be shot somehow in Dolby Vision and/or "HDR?" I'm really kind of foggy on their idea of HDR. I really hope it's nothing like that garish, surreal crap I see in the still photography world. If movies start looking like that I'll just read more books!

Even if Dolby Vision just improves rendition of color, contrast and shadow/highlight detail, how is that going to fit into the "bit budget" of movie productions? We still see a lot of movies, regular 2D movies, being rendered in 2K. The 4K format, even in normal color bit depths, is considered a high priced format. What will productions have to do with cinematography, CGI, compositing, motion graphics, color grading and anything else to fit in with Dolby Vision? I can see a situation where a Dolby Cinema theater is playing a lot of standard color depth movies with only 5.1 sound. That's not going to be worth a high price premium.

I hope Dolby can do very well with Dolby Cinema, but I'm worried about its chances and also worried how it can impact sales of Dolby gear to movie theaters.
 

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Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 12-04-2014, 03:31 AM:
 
How can Dolby increase the contrast of DLP DCI projectors if Barco, Christie, NEC, and TI can't do? Even their new laser projectors do not go beyond 1:3000 CR. Which is nice compared to the common 1:2000, but not as much as expected previouly.

This is very different on flat screens, which do not suffer from stray light and have very high contrast ratios for years.

I never believed in this Dolby Vision crap. Looks like pure marketing gaga to me. And I haven't seen a single paper giving even the shortest line of real information on it. Dynamic contrast, local dimming, etc. has all been there for years.

- Carsten
 

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Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 12-04-2014, 04:03 AM:
 
Besides the lack of mandatory screen masking, the most depressing thing really is the name of the concept. "Dolby Cinema" is just another generic term, stacked onto the Dolby brand. This generic term "Cinema" will be the first to be dropped from people's minds.

While professionals and semi-pros will have no problem in discerning the "Dolby Cinema" theater concept from their range of professional cinema products and their implementation in home theater products, it doesn't really help for the normal consumer. Most people know Dolby from the occasional trailer in the theater and the stuff in their home theater. By using the same brands everywhere, the consumer is basically being told: The stuff you've got at home is as good as you get it in the cinema... Try to sell this to your exhibitors.

quote:

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Now we're going to expect movies to be shot somehow in Dolby Vision and/or "HDR?" I'm really kind of foggy on their idea of HDR. I really hope it's nothing like that garish, surreal crap I see in the still photography world. If movies start looking like that I'll just read more books!

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quote: Carsten Kurz

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I never believed in this Dolby Vision crap. Looks like pure marketing gaga to me. And I haven't seen a single paper giving even the shortest line of real information on it. Dynamic contrast, local dimming, etc. has all been there for years.

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It's obviously a lot of marketing b.s., but it's essentially about having a mandatory two projector setup for 3D instead of one using laser light sources and Dolby 3D, which will be brighter than anything out there yet and about having a wider color gamut. All neatly packed together in some marketable buzzword lingo...
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-04-2014, 06:49 AM:
 
My guess is that they achieve the high contrast in a similar manner in which they did it for "Dolby Monitor"...since they are using laser projection, it is possible to modulate the light source. Also, by using lasers, you have the ability to have a more accurate color gamut (the more accurate your primaries are...and lasers are pretty monochromatic, the more accurate your color representations can be.

I agree though...if you are going to control the layout of the theatre...then by all means, IMPROVE THE LOOK of the theatre too. Demand things like curtains and masking!

What Dolby has on this high-contrast thing is something that other PLF (including IMAX) cannot duplicate using off-the-shelf equipment. Dolby gets a proprietary format in there.

I would presume, if the 6P laser system wasn't so expensive right now, they'd rather you just purchase the system and they wouldn't be a partner. However, to get the system launched, they are going to need to make it price attractive. Again, there isn't much loose money out there to spend on anything. People are already going for the comfy seats because there is a clear relationship to sales and the perception of a better experience with those.
 

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Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 12-04-2014, 07:51 AM:
 
Can't they at least do common height if they are going with no masking.

I still don't understand this floating screen stuff. There is a relatively new regal here that does it on every screen. Is it supposed to be futuristic or something? I don't see how it adds to the aesthetics or the presentation.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-04-2014, 09:55 AM:
 
I don't think the floating screen looks futuristic at all. It actually makes me think of really old big screen projection TV sets from the 1970's:



That's an image I grabbed from a Google Image search.

Has anyone else looked at the promotional video for Dolby Cinema? The decor in the theater looks very sterile and barren. I'd take a very opulent looking Warren Theaters "Grand Audiorium" scheme over that any day. It also looks like Dolby would be sinking a huge amount of money into the auditorium entrance. While it's nice to have an attractive entrance most of the money really needs to be spent where it counts: on the image and sound quality itself.

Regarding Dolby Vision and what it might change: movie-makers need to be on board with the idea up front. I think a lot of movie-makers would be pissed to see something they carefully adjusted in post production be changed by a proprietary digital projection front end. A lot of NLE, motion graphics and color grading software already allows one to do all sort of stuff to shadow and highlight areas, especially if they're working with raw, uncompressed camera hardware data. Honestly, what's going to stop others from just upping color bit depth and bypassing Dolby altogether?

quote: Carsten Kurz

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How can Dolby increase the contrast of DLP DCI projectors if Barco, Christie, NEC, and TI can't do? Even their new laser projectors do not go beyond 1:3000 CR. Which is nice compared to the common 1:2000, but not as much as expected previouly.

This is very different on flat screens, which do not suffer from stray light and have very high contrast ratios for years.

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And that raises the possibility of Dolby opening another Pandora's Box of sorts for theater operators.

Right now, razor-thin flat panel OLED TV displays are very expensive, high end items. But they're not going to be that way forever. The contrast ratios and deepness of black on those screens is utterly amazing. What's to stop Dolby from pushing Dolby Vision into the consumer space, particularly with OLED TV sets and doing so with "deep color" 4K content in home theater? Dolby is a publicly traded company now with a board more interested in growing profit margins than anything else. Preservation of the commercial movie-going experience might be a secondary priority to pushing consumer electronics sales.
 

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Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 12-04-2014, 10:21 AM:
 
I remember sitting in a Video Concepts store back in the early 1980's trying to figure out how I could afford one of those projectors that Bobby posted above. A blast from the past. A few years later, I ended up buying a Kloss Novabeam video projector, where the projector was also a coffee table that projected up on to a wall screen. Ultimately, I decided that the concave screen was just not "movie" like.
 

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Posted by Sam Graham (Member # 2889) on 12-04-2014, 10:27 AM:
 
The Regal Floating Screen



Mounted at the top and bottom but open on the ends. You can listerally stick your hand around it or under it on the corners.

The lighting shuts off during the feature and the curtains and walls up front are all pitch black, so during the feature, I noticed no difference watching the movie over a masked screen. However, the lights are ON during the trailers, and that experience was like watching a really poorly lit Samsung curved screen television.
 

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Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 12-04-2014, 10:30 AM:
 
Carsten,

I read that it is made by using two light engines in series. One chip creates the light pattern for the second chip, which creates the picture. When black is needed, the first DMD gets rid of most of the light, the second chip will only need to get rid of the leftover. This is apparently giving much more contrast and because you have a very precise light pattern behind the second chip - it will be another DMD chip - the outcome should be very good.
Last time I heard something like that, it was done by using an LED background, with many LEDs, but not 2.2millions (2K picture)
 

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Posted by Daniel Schulz (Member # 1881) on 12-04-2014, 10:36 AM:
 

quote: Bobby Henderson

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What's to stop Dolby from pushing Dolby Vision into the consumer space, particularly with OLED TV sets and doing so with "deep color" 4K content in home theater?

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quote: Bobby Henderson

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Right now, razor-thin flat panel OLED TV displays are very expensive, high end items. But they're not going to be that way forever. The contrast ratios and deepness of black on those screens is utterly amazing

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I have one OLED TV (LG 55EC930V) and the blacks they have is the best thing that I see in my life. The "blacks" of ANY cinema screen makes me laugh. Including this Dolby Vision or future Laser Projection, of course.

I mean...the screen is WHITE. So, any light, as minimum, will light the surronding space in that white screen, so the "black" will be...grey.

I think that in a very future the cinemas screens will be giant OLED screens, 8K or 16K ready, and then YES, we will really know the excellence of a true HDR image. Not the current cinema screens, sorry.
 

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Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 12-04-2014, 11:20 AM:
 
Then what we do, we just don't do anything and we wait till massive OLED screens are affordable?
 

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Posted by Terry Monohan (Member # 8285) on 12-04-2014, 11:56 AM:
 
Dolby®***How about putting a nice set of title curtains that go up or sideways plus a giant type deep curved screen. Just don't put in a big white sheet with no masking! What a boring name Dolby Cinema® Please come up with a new concept for something people can't get at home.
 

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Posted by Antonio Casado (Member # 7592) on 12-04-2014, 12:11 PM:
 
Here in Spain the majority of the screens aren´t masked...In fact I remember to see one or two masked screens in my whole life here (42 years...)
 

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Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 12-04-2014, 02:05 PM:
 
Almost all of Dolby's cinema products history has been to come out with a "professional" product to advertise a new concept, and then to license the home version. Can you say Dolby Stereo? Can you say Dolby Digital? Can you say Dolby Digital EX (7.1)? Can you say Dolby Atmos?

There is a saying, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me multiple times, I must be a theatre owner.
 

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Posted by Terry Lynn-Stevens (Member # 7349) on 12-04-2014, 02:22 PM:
 
This Dolby Cinema concept look more like a cross between a PLF and a small to medium VIP type theater. The dynamic/audio video pathway and the sensory way finding audio looks pretty pointless to me, people usually know how to enter a movie theater.

Something tells me that Dolby Atmos is not tracking all that well with the younger crowds , the video at Dolby.com appears to show that the Dolby Atmos surround speakers are hidden behind acoustic panels. Why would you hide the speakers? Perhaps younger folks think it is an eyesore?

quote: Steve Guttag

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I just don't see cinema owners clamoring for more means to spend money to show movies.

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Dolby is about 6-7 years to late with this product, PLF screens are already over saturated in the marketplace and there really is only so much room to add more capacity. I doubt this concept will catch on.

From the wording of the press release, it appears that there will be two projector upgrades needed, the laser projectors that will initially be installed will not have Dolby Vision, the Dolby Vision projectors will come at a later date. This is a bit odd

quote: Sam Graham

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Mounted at the top and bottom but open on the ends. You can listerally stick your hand around it or under it on the corners.

The lighting shuts off during the feature and the curtains and walls up front are all pitch black, so during the feature, I noticed no difference watching the movie over a masked screen. However, the lights are ON during the trailers, and that experience was like watching a really poorly lit Samsung curved screen television.

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Cineplex now does this for their VIP theaters and the look and esthetics of the cinema is what they are after when you enter the cinema. I too have no problem if there is no masking at all, as long as it is not on a flat screen with the masking left open.

And from the Dolby site:

a sophisticated space that is carefully designed to maximize your immersion in the story.

dramatically different visual experience.

I don't know about the others on here, but I am sick and tired of the words immersion, immersive, and experience that comes along with just about everything these days.
 

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Posted by Paul H. Rayton (Member # 1817) on 12-04-2014, 02:56 PM:
 
When I think of "an immersive experience", I'm thinking of swimming, or in my bathtub....

But seriously: let's just take a wild guess and speculate that their "Dolby Theatre" (here in L.A. -- formerly the Kodak Theatre and home of the Oscars TV broadcast) will be an early candidate for such an installation. And about 100 yards away, there's the original Chinese Theatre, with their new Imax showcase screen, said to be one of their largest.

Jeez, it's a large screen smackdown event, right here in movieville!
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-04-2014, 03:08 PM:
 

quote:

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Something tells me that Dolby Atmos is not tracking all that well with the younger crowds [Roll Eyes] , the video at Dolby.com appears to show that the Dolby Atmos surround speakers are hidden behind acoustic panels. Why would you hide the speakers? Perhaps younger folks think it is an eyesore?

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Terry, you're reaching quite a lot with that "younger crowds tracking" garbage -along with the usual and predictable anti-Atmos trolling.


This Dolby Cinema concept is far from the first time anyone has hidden surround speakers behind acoustical panels or other wall decorations. Warren Theaters hides the side wall surround speakers in their Grand auditoriums within old movie palace style decorative features. Lots of home theater installations feature in-wall speakers and speakers that are completely hidden from view.

Really, if you're going to blame this hidden speaker thing on any demographic it would sound more credible to blame it on older generations. They might be more concerned about maintaining the quality of decor in the room. Younger people don't mind it as much to have a lot of techie gear visible.

In the end, there appears to be some purpose in having the speakers hidden. The Dolby Cinema room is not a typical oblong box shape. The angled walls and ceiling appear to do more in controlling and/or eliminating unwanted sound wave reflections. A bunch of surround speakers sticking out of the walls and ceiling are going to have at least some effect on sound wave reflections.

Now, I might be more impressed with Dolby Cinema if they go to the same lengths they have with a couple of their own private screening rooms. Their Burbank screening room is really a room built inside of another room with extensive treatment applied between the floor and walls to eliminate sound leakage and other unwanted noises.
 

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Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 12-04-2014, 03:40 PM:
 
I want to hope that this whole project brings some real AV experience and it's not just the same bunch of marketing nonsense, with a system installed and EQ'd in a rush and only re-aligned when customers begin to complain.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-04-2014, 03:43 PM:
 

quote: Bobby Henderson

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there appears to be some purpose in having the speakers hidden. The Dolby Cinema room is not a typical oblong box shape. The angled walls and ceiling appear to do more in controlling and/or eliminating unwanted sound wave reflections. A bunch of surround speakers sticking out of the walls and ceiling are going to have at least some effect on sound wave reflections.

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quote: Steve Guttag

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My guess is that they achieve the high contrast in a similar manner in which they did it for "Dolby Monitor"...since they are using laser projection, it is possible to modulate the light source.

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quote: Marco Giustini

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I read that it is made by using two light engines in series. One chip creates the light pattern for the second chip, which creates the picture. When black is needed, the first DMD gets rid of most of the light, the second chip will only need to get rid of the leftover.

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quote: Daniel Schulz

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Dolby has been quite open about their intent to push Dolby Vision into consumer video displays. They were running demos at CES this past year.

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quote: Antonio Casado

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I have one OLED TV (LG 55EC930V) and the blacks they have is the best thing that I see in my life. The "blacks" of ANY cinema screen makes me laugh. Including this Dolby Vision or future Laser Projection, of course.

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quote: Antonio Casado

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I mean...the screen is WHITE. So, any light, as minimum, will light the surronding space in that white screen, so the "black" will be...grey.

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quote: Antonio Casado

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Here in Spain the majority of the screens aren´t masked...In fact I remember to see one or two masked screens in my whole life here (42 years...)

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quote: Marco Giustini

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Then what we do, we just don't do anything and we wait till massive OLED screens are affordable?

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quote: Bobby Henderson

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In the end, there appears to be some purpose in having the speakers hidden. The Dolby Cinema room is not a typical oblong box shape. The angled walls and ceiling appear to do more in controlling and/or eliminating unwanted sound wave reflections. A bunch of surround speakers sticking out of the walls and ceiling are going to have at least some effect on sound wave reflections.

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quote: Mike Blakesley

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As for the ever-increasingly immersive thing... I'm all about good sound. I love good sound, but I just don't see the huge need for all this immersivity or whatever you want to call it, especially if it's going to double (or more) the cost of a movie ticket. When I am watching a movie I get involved in what's going on on the screen. I'm not exactly caring if the bullet hits are in a certain spot overhead vs. just coming from the side. Just plain old surround sound gets the job done for me.

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quote: Steve Guttag

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My guess is that they achieve the high contrast in a similar manner in which they did it for "Dolby Monitor"

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quote: Mike Blakesley

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Even the Dolby screening room has the speakers hidden behind acoustic panels, and it's just a rectangular room. It's nothing to do with the sound, it's just aesthetics.

I'm sure some architect designed this Dolby thing and part of the design was not having ugly boxes sticking out of the walls.

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I never knew about the Dolby screening room not having exposed speakers, I figured they would not have them covered up. I think Dolby did some research on the new generation of movie-goer which this Dolby cinema looks to be aimed at, folks around 21-28 year of age, I would assume they are more likely use a sound bar at home, watch on Netflix off their phone, and pay $25 for the VIP treatment. I figure part of the Dolby Atmos "experience" (I just said it) would be to actually see the speakers when you enter the cinema, I must admit the lay out of an Atmos cinema with all the speakers hanging everywhere kinda looks like shit, perhaps Dolby figured that out.

This is the new Cineplex Atmos VIP: This is what people are paying $25 for.



I am bit surprised that Dolby would hide the speakers with their new concept.
In contrast, IMAX throws their logo on everything the customer can see:

quote: Mike Blakesley

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Probably about 98% of moviegoers are what you would call "average moviegoers," meaning they just want to see a movie and have it look and sound good. They don't require the latest bells'n'whistles. I watched the trailer for the new Star Wars last night in my own theater, with the sound on a nice loud "6," and I was suitably impressed. Would I have been twice as impressed if the sound had been Atmos? I doubt it.

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quote: Mitchell Dvoskin

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There is a saying, fool me once, shame on you. Fool me multiple times, I must be a theatre owner.

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That is pretty funny
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-04-2014, 09:54 PM:
 
I don't get what is so VIP about that Cineplex room...it looks aweful and the front-end doesn't fit the room. One thing about a typical Atmos room, the speakers do seem to be a bit over bearing in appearance.
 

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Posted by Antonio Casado (Member # 7592) on 12-05-2014, 02:24 AM:
 

quote:

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quote: Antonio Casado
I have one OLED TV (LG 55EC930V) and the blacks they have is the best thing that I see in my life. The "blacks" of ANY cinema screen makes me laugh. Including this Dolby Vision or future Laser Projection, of course.

Have you seen it yet?

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quote: Mike Blakesley

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As for the ever-increasingly immersive thing... I'm all about good sound. I love good sound, but I just don't see the huge need for all this immersivity or whatever you want to call it, especially if it's going to double (or more) the cost of a movie ticket. When I am watching a movie I get involved in what's going on on the screen. I'm not exactly caring if the bullet hits are in a certain spot overhead vs. just coming from the side. Just plain old surround sound gets the job done for me.

---

quote: Marcel Birgelen

---

The idea is not just to improve the contrast or make white more white. It intends to broaden the color gamut of images, to more realistically simulate nature. So, not only brighter white, but also brighter yellow, brigher red, etc.

---

quote: Marcel Birgelen

---

You don't need OLEDs for massive screens, but you could theoretically use massive LED screens. I've seen several demos of 4K LED walls and from a certain distance, they look VERY impressive. The problem is the massive screen door effect though, once you get up close to them.

---

quote: Marcel Birgelen

---

The main attraction is still just the movie itself. And if the theater gets it right and avoids unnecessary distraction, a lot of those technical bells and whistles are just a bunch of gimmicks. Then again, the only way for technology providers like Dolby to stay relevant is to come up with something new once a while. Also, if you're in a hugely competitive market, where everybody competes with essentially the same content, you will need some distinguishing features to stay ahead of your competition.

---

quote: Allan Barnes

---

STILL LAUGHING HERE IN CANADA. THIS PROCESS WILL SOLVE YOUR RACE WAR.

---

This is assuming racism doesn't exist outside the United States?

 

---

Posted by Antonio Casado (Member # 7592) on 12-05-2014, 11:08 AM:
 
Marcel, is obvious that I don´t have seen, but it´s the same obvious thing that a white screen cannot compare to a OLED screen, as are different things.

And I like a lot OLED, and I think that is the future. These deeper blacks are really atracting and is the way to go.

In fact I have done a photo of my OLED and my projector showing the same image, to match it, and finally I done it (this with another technology is really hard to set):

http://imageshack.com/a/img540/307/xy8Rn0.jpg

About the glossy panel, it not aesthetical, is simply that a matte panel introduce blur to the image and the sharpness is reduced. I don´t like it as well as you, but there isn´t any other option to make the best sharpness.
 

---

Posted by Terry Lynn-Stevens (Member # 7349) on 12-05-2014, 12:48 PM:
 

quote: Steve Guttag

---

I don't get what is so VIP about that Cineplex room...it looks aweful and the front-end doesn't fit the room.

---

quote: Steve Guttag

---

One thing about a typical Atmos room, the speakers do seem to be a bit over bearing in appearance.

---

I always thought it was the hallmark for Dolby to show off the Atmos speaker arrays inside a cinema, now they are going the transparent route for this Dolby Cinema. I just find that a little strange. Why hide what is arguably the most visually defining feature (even if it is ugly ) of the Atmos concept?

quote: Marco Giustini

---

I love walking into an auditorium and see all the speakers. Those subs hung with metal frames are simply wrong though. Those should be flush with the wall.

---

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

Dolby Vision sounds to me like it is meant to compete with other emerging standards, like the Rec. 2020 color space. HDTV sets currently sold (including 4K UHTVs) are limited to the Rec. 709 color space. TV sets that support Rec. 2020 color space will cover more than double the CIE 1931 color space (75.8% versus 35.9%). How is a Dolby Vision enhanced monitor going to compare to a UHDTV set that just supports Rec. 2020?

---

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

Repeating what I said earlier, there's no way to go with this wide gamma route without adding more bits of color depth in actual movie/TV show production. That's going to cost more money in terms of processing power, bandwidth and storage requirements.

---

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

It's perfectly acceptable for Dolby and other technology companies to push the boundaries of what's possible with color reproduction in projectors and video monitors. However, have they been watching many movies lately? Lots of movies these days aren't exactly what I would call brilliantly colorful. Often they're dreary looking, sometimes with a urine colored bath.

---

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

A LED-based "jumbotron" style screen might be more possible, but would still be expensive as hell just to get to a 2K pixel count, nevermind quadrupling it to 4K. It would require a LOT of maintenance. Driver board panels have to be swapped out when a pixel gets stuck/goes bad. The jumbotron has to be continually adjusted to make replacement driver boards match the color and intensity of older existing boards. If that isn't done you'll see a whole lot of blocky squares of varying brightness -the dreaded quilt look.

---

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

One possible good thing about Dolby Cinema: it will probably raise the bar on what's expected in a premium priced big screen theater. It might actually force theater chains to disclose just what is in their "premium" house to justify the damned surcharge.

---

quote: Antonio Casado

---

Marcel, is obvious that I don´t have seen, but it´s the same obvious thing that a white screen cannot compare to a OLED screen, as are different things.

---

quote: Antonio Casado

---

About the glossy panel, it not aesthetical, is simply that a matte panel introduce blur to the image and the sharpness is reduced. I don´t like it as well as you, but there isn´t any other option to make the best sharpness.

---

quote:

---

I always thought it was the hallmark for Dolby to show off the Atmos speaker arrays inside a cinema, now they are going the transparent route for this Dolby Cinema. I just find that a little strange. Why hide what is arguably the most visually defining feature (even if it is ugly [Big Grin] ) of the Atmos concept?

---

quote: Marcel Birgelen

---

The image you pasted is more an advertisement of the brightness of your OLED screen than the lack of real black in the projected image.

---

The reason to make it is to match the colors and look between two different technologies, not other. I don´t wanted to compare the blacks of OLED in front of projection, is a nonsense.

I can make a picture of a Black of a Cinema Screen and it appears like when you make the same in a LCD Screen vs OLED:

https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1137/4726293281_8c64420359.jpg

I can see the "black masking" of 1920x1080 over 1998x1080 projections, is really visible, so the "black" is not black.

But hey, I´m really happy to see movies at that giant screens. Only wanted to imaginate that in a future maybe we see that deeper blacks in cinema screen...I hope!
 

---

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 12-05-2014, 04:58 PM:
 
My previous post contains some serious broken language. Looks like the Submit button got in the way. Sorry for that .

Well, yes, with all current cinema projection technology (film or digital, although digital is usually far worse) you will see the edge of the projected image if it is smaller than the screen. It's one of the many reasons why proper, adjustable masking is still relevant, even in the days of digital projection and sharp picture edges.

Getting black back is part of this Dolby Vision concept. It will use some trickery to achieve this and how well it works remains yet to be seen. But wouldn't it be great to see bright white dots on a deep black background for once when we're in space?
 

---

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-05-2014, 05:33 PM:
 
Of course, we could always wait until we see/hear/feel/be "immersed" in it and then pass judgment! But what would the fun be in that?

I still want big lavish curtains and a deep curve screen in my premium theatres!
 

---

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 12-05-2014, 06:58 PM:
 

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens

---

Basic surround sound works for me.

---

quote: Marco Giustini

---

Yeah, let's go back to Dolby SR.

---

Heck, let's just get back to silent movies. If they put in a live orchestra, it would actually justify those $20 ticket prices.
 

---

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 12-06-2014, 05:36 AM:
 
I'm not sure on the economics of this. Is there a clear statement already on what exactly Dolby pays for? Projection, Atmos system, wall displays? This could easily cost 1.000.000+ How long will it take Dolby to get into the earning stage, and how many cinemas can expect the attendance to make up for all the cost, both exhibitor and Dolby? There are certainly places that can achieve this, but what will be the economical outcome for Dolby?

- Carsten
 

---

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 12-06-2014, 06:09 AM:
 
I would like to see the speakers but flush - or partially flush - with the walls. The whole speaker is just ugly as pointed out, particularly the subs.
 

---

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-06-2014, 07:36 AM:
 
As others have pointed out...Dolby's end-game can be in the home with the consumer. If this drives sales all of the way into the home with Atmos licensed AVRs and some form of Dolby Monitor/Vision for the home...then that is where Dolby could really gain $$$ using the cinema as its advertisement/incentive.

For the ROI for the cinema, naturally, it has to be getting butts in the seats so if such a theatre actually does draw patrons such that these theatres are reasonably full on every show or at least in the peak hours, then there could be a good incentive for the exhibitor too. Naturally, if you are in a small town, it is unlikely that the expense would ever be repaid...but if you are in a competitive market, then everything you do that can give yourself a bigger piece of a pie you are sharing is key...so long as there really IS a ROI. I'm sure the money people have worked out what it has to do to be profitable for both sides.
 

---

Posted by Terry Lynn-Stevens (Member # 7349) on 12-06-2014, 12:42 PM:
 

quote: Carsten Kurz

---

I'm not sure on the economics of this. Is there a clear statement already on what exactly Dolby pays for? Projection, Atmos system, wall displays? This could easily cost 1.000.000+ How long will it take Dolby to get into the earning stage, and how many cinemas can expect the attendance to make up for all the cost, both exhibitor and Dolby? There are certainly places that can achieve this, but what will be the economical outcome for Dolby?

---

quote: Marco Giustini

---

The whole speaker is just ugly as pointed out, particularly the subs.

---

Just imagine having this in your living room


 

---

Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 12-06-2014, 01:27 PM:
 
In a couple of the auditorium pictures I noticed two large speaker boxes in the rear that remind me of the old style ceiling mounted furnaces I sometimes see in places like a plumbing parts shop or some place that was not designed for retail but requires heat.
But yes, overkill.
 

---

Posted by Terry Monohan (Member # 8285) on 12-06-2014, 02:30 PM:
 
Wait till California gets hit with a major huge earthquake and all the junkie overhead speakers come down on peoples heads, will the patrons sue the theatre chain or Dolby® At least If the speakers are hidden they may not do as much damage to your body.
 

---

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-06-2014, 02:46 PM:
 
An earthquake falls under the old "act of God" thing. Good luck trying to sue over falling debris from that.

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens

---

It will take a lot of cinemas installations to make the economies of scale work, Dolby is also going to need to get the major chains like AMC, Cineplex or Regal to sign up for this up and I just don't see that happening in the North American market. Right now the North American market is over saturated with regular screens as well as PLF screens.

---

The premium screen market is indeed over-saturated. But the market is over-saturated with premium screens not worth the price of their surcharge.

While IMAX is still dinking around trying to get their laser projection system ready other theaters are getting ready to deploy their own in rooms without an IMAX brand. Warren Theaters is opening two such 4K laser based screens this Wednesday in Broken Arrow, OK. Those same houses boast Dolby Atmos systems in their maximum configuration, THX certified no less.

If I pay extra to see a movie in a Cinemark "XD", Regal "RPX" or one of Carmike's "Big D" theaters I'm probably going to encounter a theater with just one projector, possibly only 2K even, and either 5.1 or 7.1 sound. I can get that in any regular priced theater! Why do I need to pay extra for one of those acronym labeled houses?

The standards bar for premium cinema is going to be raised. Some theater operators may stick with IMAX, but demand IMAX get their shitty 2K projection and 5.1 sound upgraded ASAP. Others might ditch at least some of their private label premium screens and replace them with Dolby Cinema theaters instead.

Either way, movie theater operators will have to start doing to serious upgrades on those premium priced big screen theaters. They can't keep charging extra for what's really standard projection and sound. For some, they might pay for laser projection and sound system upgrades on their own. Others may think it's more economical to go the partnership route with either IMAX or Dolby.
 

---

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 12-06-2014, 02:49 PM:
 
Terry,

I like that the guy took some time to (badly) fix some plastic ducts on the wall to make the whole contraption less ugly!
 

---

Posted by Terry Lynn-Stevens (Member # 7349) on 12-06-2014, 03:40 PM:
 

quote: Steve Guttag

---

but if you are in a competitive market, then everything you do that can give yourself a bigger piece of a pie you are sharing is key...so long as there really IS a ROI.

---

I do agree with you here, if a theater chain is in a highly competitive market then anything to give yourself an edge will help. I just don't see the point of the video screen inside the hallway or audio visual pathway doing anything for the ROI, and that fact that theater will need another projector upgrade from Dolby is a little strange

I think THX would have a better chance and penetrating the current market than this Dolby Cinema thing. I bet THX would omit the need for masking in this current day and age

This Dolby Cinema things reminds me of how auto manufacturers create a strange looking concept only to never release it to the public, but it this case Dolby has create a strange concept with stealth bomber style side walls only to in fact release it to the public.

quote:

---

Terry,

I like that the guy took some time to (badly) fix some plastic ducts on the wall to make the whole contraption less ugly! [Smile]

---

I guess that might be the defining example of Dolby -mos

quote: Terry Monohan

---

Wait till California gets hit with a major huge earthquake and all the junkie overhead speakers come down on peoples heads, will the patrons sue the theatre chain or Dolby® At least If the speakers are hidden they may not do as much damage to your body.

---

quote: Steve Guttag

---

Naturally, if you are in a small town, it is unlikely that the expense would ever be repaid..

---

quote: Steve Guttag

---

Naturally, if you are in a small town, it is unlikely that the expense would ever be repaid...but if you are in a competitive market, then everything you do that can give yourself a bigger piece of a pie you are sharing is key...so long as there really IS a ROI. I'm sure the money people have worked out what it has to do to be profitable for both sides.

---

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens

---

Right now the North American market is over saturated with regular screens as well as PLF screens. Also, early cinemas will not have Dolby Vision as that will come a little later, early projectors will just be laser.

---

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens

---

I think THX would have a better chance and penetrating the current market than this Dolby Cinema thing. I bet THX would omit the need for masking in this current day and age

---

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens

---

This Dolby Cinema things reminds me of how auto manufacturers create a strange looking concept only to never release it to the public, but it this case Dolby has create a strange concept with stealth bomber style side walls only to in fact release it to the public.

---

quote:

---

I guess that might be the defining example of Dolby [Moon] -mos

---

quote:

---

We saw a laser demo at CinemaCon in 2012. It was brighter, but not up to the level of "OMG I have to replace my projector right now!"

---

quote:

---

We saw a laser demo at CinemaCon in 2012. It was brighter, but not up to the level of "OMG I have to replace my projector right now!"

---

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens

---

I think for the largest screens people will see or perceive a difference, not huge but some.

---

quote: Steve Guttag

---

As for the laser demo...there was no perceived improvement in terms of picture for me.

---

quote: Marcel Birgelen

---

Yawn. Really? Are we back in kindergarten? Or is this your standard escape when logical arguments fail?

---

I'm wondering if Terry really is the "AndySu" posting in the Atmos thread over at Home Theater Forum. "AndySu" posted that odd home theater room photo there and has been calling Dolby Atmos "Atmis" lately.

"AndySu" sounds very similar to the name of one participant who was booted from the forum a few years ago.
 

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Posted by Terry Lynn-Stevens (Member # 7349) on 12-08-2014, 10:53 AM:
 
Bobby, you've gotta chill out a bit Not everybody likes Atmos and I am just having a little fun with it. The fact of the matter is that Dolby Atmos has been a bit of a flop, it has not gotten the brand recognition is deserves, and I suspect Dolby has figured this out. The speakers arrays are ugly as hell as well. It is just a matter of time in that Dolby Atmos will just become forgotten at the movie theater.

As for Dolby Cinema, it is a little lame and it is not going to work. The audio visual pathway as you enter the cinema is stupid as hell and it does nothing. Looking at the actual cinema, it just looks like a standard premium type cinema, the stealth bomber angled walls really do nothing. So what, its got Atmos and dual Christie 6P projectors, the Seattle Cinerama has this already and nobody is talking about it. Dolby is about 6 years too late on this concept.

And what the heck has happened to Dolby Vision in the home cinema area, I think Chicago has been the only bluray title released in a whole year.
 

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Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 12-08-2014, 12:49 PM:
 

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

I'm wondering if Terry really is the "AndySu" posting in the Atmos thread over at Home Theater Forum. "AndySu" posted that odd home theater room photo there and has been calling Dolby Atmos "Atmis" lately.

---

Is he also paid by the IMAX propaganda machine?

Terry, I know you mostly ignore me, because yeah, I'm an *sshole and logical arguments are just for pussies... Then again, to quote Will Smith, I'm allergic to bullshit. So, don't take it too personal. You're getting paid to swallow other people's shit, ain't you?

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens

---

The fact of the matter is that Dolby Atmos has been a bit of a flop, it has not gotten the brand recognition is deserves, and I suspect Dolby has figured this out.

---

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens

---

The speakers arrays are ugly as hell as well.

---

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens

---

Looking at the actual cinema, it just looks like a standard premium type cinema, the stealth bomber angled walls really do nothing.

---

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens

---

And what the heck has happened to Dolby Vision in the home cinema area, I think Chicago has been the only bluray title released in a whole year.

---

quote:

---

ou cannot even buy a Dolby Vision TV yet.

---

quote: Marcel Birgelen

---

But, for the home, even 7.1 surround has been largely a failure, maybe even 5.1, as most just don't bother. I know plenty of people who went from 5.1 back to just stereo or some kind of a sound bar with "virtual surround". So, if Dolby Atmos is a failure in the home, so is Dolby Digital or DTS.

---

quote:

---

Bobby, you've gotta chill out a bit [Shrug] Not everybody likes Atmos and I am just having a little fun with it.

---

I'll call it how I see it. You have no profile picture, yet have a posting style very similar to at least one or more former F-T forum members from the Toronto area (aka the "GTA") who were banned for excessive asinine behavior here. You joined the forum not very long after they left. I've seen people get banned from a forum before and show up later under a different handle to resume trolling behavior. I have the same suspicions about you.

"Andy Summers" was another forum member, who liked showing off photos of some very strange home theater setups, presumably his. I don't remember why he got banned here, but he did. Now the "same guy" is posting under the handle "AndySu" at Home Theater Forum.

I'm suspicious that it is far more than mere coincidence that you copied one of his home theater setup photos from the Atmos thread at Home Theater Forum, posted it here and that "AndySu" is all of a sudden sounding just like you over at HTF, claiming that Atmos in the home is dead on arrival and should be called "Dolby Atmis".

The similarities are just too damned similar not to notice.
 

---

Posted by Terry Lynn-Stevens (Member # 7349) on 12-08-2014, 02:04 PM:
 
Bobby, you've got to relax.
 

---

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-08-2014, 02:07 PM:
 
Relax? Where was I yelling in the previous post? I've made those observations about you in a very calm manner.

If I was one of the moderators with access to the server logs I might be doing a little deeper investigation into things like IP addresses.
 

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Posted by Terry Lynn-Stevens (Member # 7349) on 12-08-2014, 02:20 PM:
 

quote:

---

Is he also paid by the IMAX propaganda machine? [Razz]

---

LOL, I do not work for IMAX. I just don't let the transition from 1570 get me all worked up like some folks, especially Bobby Henderson. Sure it is not the same as 15/70 but it does not bother me. There are some very nice IMAX venues in the Toronto and New York markets that make going to these venues worthwhile IMO, these are not the AMC type refit locations.

It remains to be seen how successful this Dolby Cinema concept is going to be, IMAX has pretty successful marketing and studio support and IMAX is perceived as being the highest quality form of movie going experiences. This holds especially true in markets such as Asian areas that do not have the 15/70 past legacy. The economies of scale for Dolby Atmos to work is going to be the biggest problem, their patented theater design might work but I am skeptical if they can get enough signings to make this worthwhile.

Dolby recently has been doing in theater research regarding their Dolby Atmos branding, from what I have seen, the roll out of Atmos has not gone very well from audience reaction and surveys. Bottom line, the audiences didn't say it sucked, they just said they didn't know what it was, nor did they notice any difference during the movie as to sound quality. Dolby Atmos really lacks in the marketing department from what I have seen.

The new IMAX audio system will not be differentiated from the current set up from what I have heard. It will just be IMAX and no mention with regards to laser or the new 12 channel setup.

Here is a pic of the custom overhead speakers. They will look a little cleaner than current Atmos set ups.


 

---

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 12-08-2014, 05:41 PM:
 
It's a given fact that Dolby's Atmos marketing isn't as strong as it could be. It has been iterated time and time again here. Still, I would not call this system a failure at all, especially given the cost of the system, I'm actually impressed it's going anywhere. At current price levels, it surely will only go into the biggest and best rooms and is obviously a candidate for "PLF" concepts.

As for Dolby Cinema: I'm pretty certain the Dolby Cinema screen at JT Eindhoven will be a strong competitor for the Digital IMAX "across the street", even if they offer it at the same price level. When they opened their Atmos based premium concept with a highly overpowered sound system in a massive room about 70 miles south, it generated sufficient buzz to knock the competition out within a few months time and they sold their tickets at a large markup compared to their competition. This competition was a 75-year old business which by no means offered any sub-par service, quite to the contrary actually.

As you might know, in a normal Atmos setup, it's not Dolby that decides what the end result will look like, but the theater owner. There are plenty of models to choose from and there are also plenty of ways to integrate those speakers into the design of the overall auditorium.

And have you ever seen a Barco Auro setup? It's in no way better than Dolby Atmos.

Regarding this "Stealth wall design", there are plenty of theaters around the world with more creative designs than the average shoebox with a screen against the front wall. The following came to mind:



It might not be the most attractive looking room, but the acoustics are actually pretty decent. The whole thing is also built into a big earth wall.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-08-2014, 06:05 PM:
 
I expect Dolby has a tough time marketing Atmos because it's a hard thing to tell people in a couple of words. Think about it.... how would you create a "slogan" for Atmos that would tell exactly what it does in just a few words?

"Surround sound" was easy -- the sound is surrounding me, got it. The Atmos/Auro concept....not so easy to describe in a sound bite. "Really accurate surround sound" still doesn't give the consumer an idea of what they're getting for their extra $.

For what it's worth, Dolby is still promoting the heck out of Atmos in trade magazines. I do agree they need to get the word out to the masses, but how to do it?
 

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Posted by Terry Lynn-Stevens (Member # 7349) on 12-08-2014, 06:06 PM:
 

quote: Marcel Birgelen

---

And have you ever seen a Barco Auro setup? It's in no way better than Dolby Atmos.

---

quote: Marcel Birgelen

---

I'm pretty certain the Dolby Cinema screen at JT Eindhoven will be a strong competitor for the Digital IMAX "across the street", even if they offer it at the same price level.

---

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens

---

LOL, I do not work for IMAX. I just don't let the transition from 1570 get me all worked up like some folks, especially Bobby Henderson. Sure it is not the same as 15/70 but it does not bother me.

---

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens

---

IMAX has pretty successful marketing and studio support and IMAX is perceived as being the highest quality form of movie going experiences.

---

quote: Marcel Birgelen

---

It's a given fact that Dolby's Atmos marketing isn't as strong as it could be. It has been iterated time and time again here.

---

quote: Mike Blakesley

---

I expect Dolby has a tough time marketing Atmos because it's a hard thing to tell people in a couple of words.

---

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens

---

Not everybody likes Atmos and I am just having a little fun with it. The fact of the matter is that Dolby Atmos has been a bit of a flop, it has not gotten the brand recognition is deserves, and I suspect Dolby has figured this out. The speakers arrays are ugly as hell as well. It is just a matter of time in that Dolby Atmos will just become forgotten at the movie theater.

---

quote: Buck Wilson

---

you don't care about the downgrade from 15/70 to 2k? You prefer an aged Imax "5.1" system to a fresh Atmos install?

---

quote: Buck Wilson

---

You are literally the only person I know of that doesn't like Atmos.

---

quote: Buck Wilson

---

you don't care about the downgrade from 15/70 to 2k?

---

quote: Antonio Casado

---

Here in Spain the majority of the screens aren´t masked...In fact I remember to see one or two masked screens in my whole life here (42 years...)

---

quote: Antonio Casado

---

The "blacks" of ANY cinema screen makes me laugh. Including this Dolby Vision or future Laser Projection, of course.

---

quote: Mike Blakesley

---

I do agree they need to get the word out to the masses, but how to do it?

---

quote: Mike Blakesley

---

"Surround sound" was easy -- the sound is surrounding me, got it. The Atmos/Auro concept....not so easy to describe in a sound bite. "Really accurate surround sound" still doesn't give the consumer an idea of what they're getting for their extra $.

---

quote: Terry Monohan

---

The Dolby® guys must have spent the $$$ fixing It up as It needed a complete re do.

---

Those kind of corporations often sink millions into a single stand on some trade show, which only lasts a few days.

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens

---

Perhaps you might able to confirm something with regards to Barco, is the Voice of God a single channel from the roof or four individual channels?

---

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens

---

That might be the case. Is the JT Eindhoven yet to open? Or are they open already and just adding Dolby Cinema?

---

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

Dolby is not necessarily doing anything wrong in its marketing of Dolby Atmos. And IMAX isn't necessarily doing anything right either.

---

quote: Bobby Henderson

---

Those logos were often window dressing to make a movie's poster, trailers or DVD box art seem more legit.

---

quote: Buck Wilson

---

You are literally the only person I know of that doesn't like Atmos.

---

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens

---

Atmos to me means nothing, its 64 channel system is beyond ridiculous as IMO it is just not needed.

---

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens

---

I actually like standard 35mm Dolby Stereo to Dolby Digital/DTS/SDDS as often times digital sound is played back way to loud.

---

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens

---

There is a reason why some of the great directors such as Kubrick, Allen and some others make their films in mono etc.

---

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens

---

If Dolby could get some sort of exclusive on a series of big films or a director who could champion it (like Christopher Nolan with IMAX) then I could see Dolby Atmos succeeding to the masses. What they are doing right now is obviously not working.

---

quote: Marcel Birgelen

---

I guess both IMAX and RealD are paying for their promotion on posters and trailers, although I’ve not yet seen this confirmed.

---

quote: Marcel Birgelen

---

Those logos have been on movie posters and many trailers for ages. Technicolor, Cinemascope, Dolby SR, you name it. It’s not only to make them look more legit, but also to advertise their technical progress.

---

quote: Marcel Birgelen

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Why does it have to be exclusives? Why would we even want to embrace anything that can only proliferate itself via forced monopolies? Right now, Dolby Atmos isn’t failing. I’m not sure what kind of numbers Dolby expected and if they’re way off schedule, but I’m not seeing Dolby declaring bankruptcy just yet. It seems their business is still doing quite well, in a competitive field.

Personally, I’m not even advocating Dolby Atmos as the ultimate thing. I'm repeating myself, but I really do mean it: I hope something more standard emerges from all of this. The same goes for Dolby Vision actually. The good thing of open standards is that it usually also gets the costs down, as there is no single vendor dictating the price. But like with many developments which made it to something of an open standard, it usually goes through a few iterations of proprietary formats, before a such a standard emerges.

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quote: Marcel Birgelen

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It’s not a channel based system at all, that’s the whole point. I hope in the future, we will have just ONE mix, in an open, object based audio format. Your sound system will do the appropriate mapping to your speaker layout. The sound mixer can focus on just one mix and make this mix great

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quote:

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quote: Antonio Casado
Here in Spain the majority of the screens aren´t masked...In fact I remember to see one or two masked screens in my whole life here (42 years...)

It really is unfortunate that you have only seen two properly masked screens in 42 years. Masking is the way to go, 35mm without masking has gotta really look bad. And the digital masking on an open flat screen does not look good at all. I can put up with no masking all like on a PLF screen but not on an open flat screen.

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quote:

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quote: Antonio Casado
The "blacks" of ANY cinema screen makes me laugh. Including this Dolby Vision or future Laser Projection, of course.

Black from 35mm or 70mm will look better than digital blacks, I believe blacks from laser projection will look better than you might think. Do you have access to Interstellar in 15/70? Because if you do, you will see black from film and you might see the difference versus digital.

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quote: Antonio Casado

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When project in Flat, there isn´t any digital mask or anything. Simply the Flat project in the center of the Scope Screen.

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quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens

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Right now there really is way too many formats or options that provide the so called "immersive" experience. Dolby Cinema is about 6-8 years late to the market, in the North American market there is very little room for more formats, and the Dolby Cinema concept is just another PLF format with the Dolby name attached to it. The biggest problem with Dolby Cinema/Atmos succeeding is the over saturation of other product.

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quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens

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In the case of Dolby Atmos, an exclusive release in Dolby Atmos for a big budget movie would be in the best interest of Dolby and its Atmos brand name. Just think about the exposure Dolby would get if the upcoming Star Wars was released in Atmos and Dolby Vision with no IMAX, or Auro formats. Those who have Atmos would benefit the most. Those who installed Dolby Vision would also benefit the most.

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quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens

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And the average moviegoer understanding what an object based system is will never happen. The Transformers Age of Extinction release uses the words "multidimensional" a lot in their menus...I can't wait till people get their hands on Dolby Atmos headphones.

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quote: Antonio Casado

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Compare any Oled screen with any other technology and amaze yourself :-). Even the Dolby people are thrilling about it. In fact, some Directors that see his movie in a OLED Screen, later when he see in Cinema or anything say that nothing compare with OLED Screens. It´s a fact.

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quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens

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So what is on the left and right of the flat image, white screen?

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quote: Mike Blakesley

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We don't have moving masking here so we've always had a "pillarboxed" flat image. I don't know if it's me being used to it or because the sides are less in the field of vision, but the white on the sides never bugged me.

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It has been the subject here before, more than once . Some might see it as some kind of religious thing, but it isn't. No, it's not like night and day, but the merits have been proven.

If your customers will really mind is obviously another thing, but like many quality aspects it's often a subconscious thing for many. A properly masked screen will give you better perceived contrast. The extra darkness around the edges of the screen will make the picture itself look brighter. Less exposed screen with no image will also keep unwanted reflections to a minimum. Also, in my personal opinion, a masked screen will make your screen look more like a window and not just a big white "cloth" in front of the room.

I do think it's a rather worthy upgrade, even if many people don't really see the additional benefit of it.

If every movie would be in the same aspect ratio, it wouldn't matter much. A movie projected on a floating screen with the same aspect ratio usually doesn't look worse than a movie on a masked screen, as long as the regions around the screen are dark.

quote: Dave Macaulay

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And maybe inform you that any such masking-free perversion is a violation of the DCI standards - as if anyone is enforcing any of their non-security standards.

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quote:

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quote: Antonio Casado
Compare any Oled screen with any other technology and amaze yourself :-). Even the Dolby people are thrilling about it. In fact, some Directors that see his movie in a OLED Screen, later when he see in Cinema or anything say that nothing compare with OLED Screens. It´s a fact.
So, let's close all cinemas and let's go see it in OLED at home then? Because the rest is... well, obsolete? Or should we just put an OLED screen in front of every cinema? Instead of 3D glasses we'll just hand out a bunch of binoculars? Or what are you proposing? Maybe Spain suffers from SCS... Shitty Cinema Syndrome. There are cures for that though.

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quote: Antonio Casado

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I don´t say that thing. Are you kidding me?

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quote: Marcel Birgelen

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What do they need to do to make it extra frickin' special then? Install rocking chairs? Include hookers and black jack?

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Feel-Around
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 12-17-2014, 06:50 AM:
 
I believe the "floating screen" concept has been around since the 30s, but my first ever encounter with one was in the very popular Walter Reade's Baronet Theatre on 3rd Ave in NYC. Don't flame me if it was in the sister Coronet Theatre...they were like frick and frak & my memory is skipping a few synapses on that. Anyway, the screen did exactly what the name implies -- it was just a white rectangle that floated out in front of the wall behind it. The screen was a scope screen and the film I was going to see was flat. Thing is, there was no masking on this floating white rectangle. First thing I though as I sat there before the show taking in this new configuration of a screen without masking or curtain was, "OK, so what are they going to do when they project a flat image on this scope screen....there's NO MAKSING! I was baffled. Back then I had never seen a theatre where there wasn't a curtain much less masking, so this was a puzzlment.

So the movie is about to start, house lights dim and there at the top of the ceiling I notice something moving out of two slots that I hadn't noticed before. It's two felt bands not more than 6 inches in width decenting from the two small openings in the ceiling. These bands of velour are spaced so that they fall exactly at the edges of the 1.85 image, forming sort of a mask, albeit a very small one, just wide enough to cover the film's soft gate edge. The bands get to the bottom of the screen and the show starts. Thing is, as they started to decend, at first I had no idea what was going on. When they got about a 3rd of the way down it dawned on me -- THIS is the masking, and I swear, I involuntarily laughed out loud. At the end the movie, these two strips of velour rolled back up into their little hutches above the screen.

This was my first encounter with a floating screen and it seemed quite comical. As far as I can recall, EVERYTHING in this room was WHITE. Seemed like a good example to put in a theater design book in the chapter, Bad Cinema Designs.
 

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Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 12-22-2014, 04:15 AM:
 
I’ve tried to shoot some pictures, but a cellphone camera just couldn’t handle it. To quote Zaphod Beeblebrox: "It's the weird colour scheme that freaks me. Every time you try to operate one of these weird black controls, which are labeled in black on a black background, a small black light lights up black to let you know you've done it."

This essentially describes the whole layout of the room. Everything, except the screen, is black.

The "immersive tunnel" at the beginning is essentially a long, dark tunnel with indirect blue lightning all the way to the auditorium. It starts with about 15ft of slightly curved screen. This screen is a short throw projection affair. Four standard "office" LED DLP short throw projectors stitched together via edge blending and concealed in the ceiling. The whole thing runs a short loop based on the current movie and some generic Dolby content featuring some animated fanciness. After the projection, you get some "movie related multi-channel sounds" on a loop from some concealed speakers. Then you continue your journey to the auditorium itself. The space under the raisers of the auditorium has essentially been used to create this tunnel. There is a whole concept behind this tunnel and its design with curves and bends: You exit the busy lobby, the noises of the lobby slowly die away, while you enter the realm of the movie... The whole thing feels more like a theme park attraction than a movie theater. It remains to be seen how much of this effect gets still trough on a busy night.

The room is just sparsely lit. Besides the blue glow around the screen and the blue halo along the aisles, there's just the legally minimum of required light coming from lights in the ceiling. There’s also no other aisle lightning, so no shiny LED strips radiating their red, green or blueness at the screen. Emergency lightning also has been sufficiently masked to not interfere with the screen.

Something that will probably evade most casual visitors is that the walls of the auditorium, because it's so dark, are indeed all paneled and angled, much like a stealth fighter. It will take your eyes a few minutes to see just parts of it.
The seats are comfortable fake leather seats with headrests, but unfortunately with hard plastic arm rests. Also, those are not double armrests like in the concept pictures. The best part is the extreme legroom. Most people will be able to stretch their legs to full extent with still some room to spare. I'm unable to reach the seat in front of me and I do have rather long legs.
There are 64 speakers and 5 subwoofers in the room, none of them visible to the naked eye. They're indeed all concealed behind either the screen or the side panels. The Dolby Atmos system in this room sounds great, the acoustics in the room surely help. It's not the best I've heard, but we're entering the realm of "What does it matter? It's more than good enough." here. One of the most positive side effects of the acoustic treatments of the room: During the silent moments of a movie, it's totally silent. No audible noises leaking in from the lobby, the adjacent rooms, projection booth or air conditioning.

One of the biggest letdowns is the screen itself. It's a plain white screen, which is obviously an advantage over a silver screen. But like with almost all those new, premium concepts, there’s no masking whatsoever. Since the rest of the room is essentially black, if the content fits the screen exactly, this is no real distraction. Unfortunately, the screen is one of the common width type of screens, which in my opinion, is a missed chance to diversify from most of those other "PLF" concepts that use "flat screens".

The image is created by two Christie 6P laser projectors in a dual-mirror Christie Duo configuration. With their external laser light sources, fed via fiber and no need to fit a multi-kilowatt xenon bulb in their belly, they look rather nimble for what you would otherwise expect to find in such a big room.

One of the few barely usable pictures I managed to create is the one of the 3D glasses, using a bag of crisps as contrast. As you can see, those are not the standard Dolby 3D glasses, their glasses are bigger.



I've tried my own (far superior) Infitec 3D glasses with this system, unfortunately, they're not compatible with the 6P laser system. Seemingly, the color primaries differ from the standard Dolby 3D deployment.

The provided 3D glasses, although larger than the standard glasses, aren't the best unfortunately. Many of them suffer from color defects in the extreme left and right (left being green and right being red) and also have this distracting white glare around the corners, comparable to what you'll predominantly find in the barely usable plastic version. Dolby really needs to fix this, which seems to be possible, because those über-expensive Infitec glasses don’t have those defects and at the given ticket price, you might expect flawless glasses. The interesting part is that one pair of glasses are better than the others.
If you have seen laser before, you might know what to expect. Laser projection for normal 2D DCI content looks very much like a regular, Xenon projected image. The difference is noticeable only in content that actually uses the broader color gamut and besides a few short demos and snipes, there's no content in "Dolby Vision" just yet. The few trailers there are, make those 2K Dolby Atmos trailers look stupid. So, this HDR content looks great, but more like computer graphics on steroids, not really cinematic. For normal, recorded content, it looks a lot more like "being there", which will also not really improve the cinematic looks. A lot like HFR, the whole HDR process will have a steep learning curve and also will take time to get accepted by movie buffs, I'm not yet sure if I actually want this to seep through to feature films in general.

For 3D, this system is a whole different matter though. The difference is almost night and day. It delivers 3D images at about the same brightness you'd expect from a good 2D show. This really is a game changer for 3D. Besides the problems with the glasses, Dolby 3D delivers this enhanced brightness without any crosstalk whatsoever, not even in the subtitling, which is traditionally hard to do. All in all, this is remarkable, given the brightness of the two combined pictures.
So, now for this black thing, which is also supposed to be an important part of “Dolby Vision”. Let me first start by saying: No, black still is not black, unfortunately. Also, the unavoidable letterboxing on an unmasked screen for anything but "flat" also doesn't help. But, the black on black with black buttons and handles design of the room helps. Also, the greater contrast due to more brightness also adds in obviously. The black is probably one of the best blacks I've seen using DLP projectors up until now and comparable to what would be achievable using 35mm.

The Netherlands is one of the few markets in mainland Europe that has, given the population density, some credible Digital IMAX presence. As a matter of fact, there is a Digital IMAX screen just a few yards away. Both concepts are similarly priced and if you compare both concepts, Dolby Cinema wins hands down. The picture is about equally big, but in 4K, which even helps for 2K content, because there's practically no more visible pixel grid on those oversized screens. The dual laser projector outperforms the dual 2K IMAX xenon projection in every aspect regarding brightness, the room is acoustically better, the sound systems outshines it in both raw power, clarity and detail. Also, although not entirely due to IMAX alone, the seats in this auditorium are far better as is the legroom, which will be greatly appreciated by all visitors.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-09-2015, 01:37 PM:
 
Bump.

I was tempted to start another thread about this, perhaps in the "large format" forum, which could be called the Fake Large Format Forum once film-based processes have vanished completely.

Anyway, it's interesting news (from the L.A. Times) regarding Dolby Cinema in the United States.

quote: L.A. Times, Richard Verrier

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AMC and Dolby are teaming up to build 100 high-tech theaters

AMC Entertainment, owner of the nation's second-largest theater chain, is partnering with San Francisco-based Dolby to bring sharper images and more lifelike sounds to cinemas.

The companies said they would debut 100 high-tech theaters over the next decade that will include Dolby Vision, a new laser projection system that offers sharper and more vivid images than conventional screens.

As part of the agreement, AMC will renovate its existing premium theaters, known as ETX and AMC Prime, and convert them into new venues called Dolby Cinema at AMC Prime.

Along with reclining seats that vibrate with the action on screen, the theaters also will be equipped with Dolby's Atmos sound system, which provides lifelike sounds of music, people and objects that flow around the theater in sync with the movie action.

Locally, AMC will debut the knew Dolby Cinema in Burbank in May, and in Century City in June. In all, 14 of the 100 new theaters will open in Southern California over the next decade, along with locations in San Francisco, Las Vegas, Philadelphia, Miami, Boston, Denver and Seattle.

"Guests should be prepared to be blown away when we launch this amazing theater experience," AMC Chief Executive Gerry Lopez said in a statement.

Financial terms of the partnership were not disclosed.

Theater chains such as AMC have been investing heavily in new technologies and premium services as a way to attract new moviegoers at a time when cinemas face rising competition from Netflix and other entertainment options that give consumers less incentive to leave their homes for the multiplex.

"We have what we believe is the ability to deliver a differentiated and unique experience that moviegoers can't find anywhere else," said Doug Darrow, senior vice president of cinema at Dolby.

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Posted by Terry Lynn-Stevens (Member # 7349) on 04-09-2015, 03:51 PM:
 
This is great news for Dolby and I am happy for them.

Aside from the few fan boys who cannot see the bigger picture, the roll out and acceptance of Dolby Atmos has not been very good, most consumers do not give a shit about Atmos and is clear that Dolby Atmos as a standalone option really is not working. I have said for a long time that Dolby needs to get into projection and cinema concept part of the business and it looks like they have.

People will no doubt love Dolby laser projection. I have seen a good number of films in laser as well as a number of IMAX demos and I have to say that IMAX laser projection is spectacular. The difference is like DVD to Bluray IMO and watching Xenon projection (especially single projection) now looks sub par. You really notice the limits of single projection Xenon when you see them back to back. I have no doubts that Dolby Cinema will be just as good.

Dolby was also correct in attaching itself to AMC and to AMC Prime. I would prefer no Prime but something tells me that other companies will do the Dolby Cinema at Big D or Dolby Cinema and Cineplex AVX. I could probably do without the shitty looking stealth walls and such but the younger generation of new fans will probably like them.

I would also expect higher surcharges on par with IMAX as these will be joint revenue.

IMO, its good news for Dolby, and good news for those who really like going to the cinema and it is also good news in general.
 

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Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 04-09-2015, 07:35 PM:
 

quote: Terry Lynn-Stevens

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I could probably do without the shitty looking stealth walls and such but the younger generation of new fans will probably like them.

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quote: Bobby Henderson

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I thought the angled walls are there to improve sound quality -basically to control reflections of sound waves.

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quote: Bobby Henderson

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The thing I don't like about Dolby Cinema: the screen. From the pictures I've seen the screen looks too small for the room size. It is shaped for common width, which is terrible. No masking, no curtains and a blue halo has the screen looking more like a TV set.

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quote: Bobby Henderson

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Wide gamma d-cinema projection should not have a goal of looking more garish or surreal. That's specifically what I hate about most high dynamic range still photography. They're not using all the extra bits of color depth to make things look more realistic. HDR video should simply be overcoming the limitations we have with traditional 8, 10 and 12 bit video. In normal digital still photography and videography it can be tough to capture and maintain a lot of subtle details in shadows without them crushing or keeping the gradient in a blue sky from banding when you want to alter it in post.

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quote: Bobby Henderson

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A candy crush color look also would seem to run totally against current color grading trends in movies. So many movies have been deliberately graded to look very dreary and desaturated, perhaps with tints of surgery room blue or urine yellow. Depressing.

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The problem with all new technology and techniques is that they tend to get overused. That's why I'm so afraid of the Candy Crush color schemes coming our way with this wide gamut cinema. Everybody wants to show off how great this new technology is and as a result, it gets used the wrong way. It's like someone new to Photoshop discovering the beveled edges or lens flares. Soon all their stuff has beveled edges and lens flares.
 

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Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 04-18-2015, 01:14 PM:
 
I believe it's wide gamut, gamma is something else.
DCI gamut is already much larger than REC 709 gamut and I believe it's larger than any 'Wide Gamut' monitor on the market. A wider gamut is a tool, it does not mean that everything has to be candu crushed. It may be abused by someone at first but we cannot disapprove a technology improvement because it may be abused.

Thankfully D-Cinema projectors have pre-set gamut PCF files. We don't want to stretch the gamut of existing content to a wider one, that would be plain wrong
 

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Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 04-18-2015, 06:40 PM:
 
The correct term is indeed Wide Gamut, although the term Bobby used, wide gamma, isn't all that wrong.

REC 709 covers about 75% of the DCI-P3 spectrum, so yeah, there are more (possible) colors in Digital Cinema already, compared to standard HD broadcasts and DVD/Blu Ray content.

I do not generally disprove this wider color gamut, but still it's a tool which should be used with care. Unfortunately, history has proven us that care and consideration often fly out the window in favor of showing off the latest gimmicks.
 

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Posted by William Kucharski (Member # 7246) on 04-21-2015, 06:48 PM:
 
The projected revamp of AMC ETX theatres will be interesting, given it's my local ETX theater that has the bottom corners entirely washed out with an amber glow from the rope lights they strung along the stairs.

Or, presentation quality has never exactly been AMC's forté.
 

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Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 04-23-2015, 06:29 PM:
 
If Dolby Cinema is consistent in their roll out, this will be a thing of the past.

The Dolby Cinema setup I've seen didn't have aisle lighting at all. I'm not entirely sure if that's entirely within regulation, but apparently they got the approval from the local fire department or they wouldn't be showing movies to the public.
 

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Posted by Stefan Vogels (Member # 5573) on 04-24-2015, 06:39 AM:
 
The Dolby Cinema in Eindhoven ( presuming that's the one you saw ) does have aisle lighting, but it is properly dimmed during the show and it is in a very clever angle to avoid ending up with light on screen.
 

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Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 04-24-2015, 07:30 AM:
 

quote: Stefan Vogels

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The Dolby Cinema in Eindhoven ( presuming that's the one you saw ) does have aisle lighting, but it is properly dimmed during the show and it is in a very clever angle to avoid ending up with light on screen.

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Since that's about the only Dolby Cinema theater in the vicinity, that's the one I've seen indeed.

I guess it was either not operational or I really didn't notice it. The automation had a few teething problems back then, the dimming of the halo effect for example, didn't work as planned and the show seemingly also didn't start automatically.
 

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Posted by Greg Staten (Member # 8848) on 04-26-2015, 01:46 PM:
 
Regarding the Dolby Cinema installations for Tomorrowland/Inside Out, I've found out which AMC theaters are being converted in Houston.

The AMC Deerbook 24 has taken their Atmos screen down and conversion started on Friday. The screen will go back up in time for Tomorrowland. The Dolby construction crew will then move over to the AMC Willowbrook 24 and begin the conversion of that theater so it will be ready in time for Inside Out.

Both of these are suburban theaters outside BW 8 in North Houston, Deerbrook being in Northeast Houston off US-59 and Willowbrook being in Northwest Houston off TX-249.

Unsure of the other cities at this time.

-greg
 

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Posted by Manny Montes (Member # 5639) on 04-26-2015, 02:00 PM:
 
I'm sure the miami location they mentioned will be the aventura 24, they have one auditorium that is standalone with atmos already and an ETX. Plus they seem to get all of AMCs new toys.
 

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Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 04-26-2015, 02:42 PM:
 
I wonder if they will convert the ETX auditorium at Downtown Disney (soon to be Disney Springs) in Lake Buena Vista. If so, it will be interesting to see how they handle the design with the balcony.
 

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Posted by Terry Lynn-Stevens (Member # 7349) on 04-30-2015, 05:52 PM:
 
LATEST NEWS
Dolby Impresses CinemaCon with 1,000,000:1 HDR Projection Demo

by Alex Billington
April 23, 2015
Dolby Cinema

Lasers. They're the future of cinema, so you better get used to it. I've been attending CinemaCon (formerly ShoWest), the movie theater owners' convention, for the last 9 years and have seen many fantastic technical demos. One year James Cameron came and showed us his first look at High Frame Rates; one year Dolby introduced their (now everywhere) Atmos sound system with a custom install in a big auditorium where we get to see screenings. This year, Dolby held a demo of their latest offering - a system called Dolby Vision (we've written about it recently). It runs on two 4K laser projectors and they claimed that the contrast ratio they were getting up to is 1,000,000:1. Most cinemas today are barely 2,000:1. It was mesmerizing to see.

There's a few details to clear up about what we are seeing. First things first, lasers (and "HDR") are not the same thing as "HFR" (or High Frame Rates, which James Cameron is all about and many moviegoers don't like). Secondly, this High Definition Range (or "HDR") branding is actually a brand new proprietary system from Dolby installed in the Christie 4K projectors. Instead of one DLP chip, there are multiple DLP chips, designed in a way to minimize light loss so that all of the good light goes straight to the screen. That means completely crisp, clear projection with unprecedented color depth. No really, you have never seen anything like 1,000,000:1 contrast ratio. The blacks looks completely black. It all looks spectacularly more luscious.

Now here's the other thing about laser projection. Many are wondering: will I even notice a difference? The answer is, frankly, probably yes and no. If you're a diehard cinema enthusiast and visual purist like me, you will notice it immediately because there is so much more detail in the darker areas of each frame. However, not everyone may notice this at first. But the way to make them notice is giving a side-by-side comparison. At the beginning of our demo in CinemaCon, the screen comes up with some text saying something like "this is how it used to be", then the screen splits and the blacks really become black, the text fully stands out. That kind of side-by-side comparison will surely make your jaw drop, because of how much better it looks.

Dolby Cinema

I spoke with CJ Flynn of DCinemaTools.com while at CinemaCon about the Dolby system and what he knows about it. His discussion indicated that this new technology is so impressive, and Dolby is so heavily invested in perfecting the cinematic experience (including their Atmos sound), that it could cause other premium theatrical offerings to suffer when consumers start to realize just how spectacular this is. It's hard to believe that claim without actually seeing it yourself, but it sounds like (and from what I've seen here) this definitely is going to be the offering that cinema purists will always want to choose from now on. Except that even by next year, 2016, only 9 theaters in the US will have this installed. It's going to be a long roll out.

The "Dolby Cinema" branding, which is what that image above shows, refers to perfecting the theatrical experience so that light loss/reflection/noise and other potential technical drawbacks are minimal. The entire theater, from floor to seats to screen, is constructed and designed in a way so that the audio/visual experience is truly perfect. That's where you'll actually see a contrast of 1,000,000:1, because even exit signs and aisle lighting used in most theaters today add too much ambient light that detracts from the amount of depth we see on screen. This is the ideal "premium" offering that many movie lovers have been waiting for.

While I have been discussing the future of cinema for many years, after this year's CinemaCon presentation I've got a really good feeling about the direction Dolby is going with this premium "Dolby Cinema" setup. AMC is already a believer too, as they've committed to a long term partnership with Dolby as well. I can talk about it and write about it all day long, but you have to experience this yourself, see the differences between standard projection and Dolby's HDR laser, to truly feel as excited for this future as I do. It will be worth it. Especially if you love the extraordinary glory of the big screen. For more information, check out Dolby.com.

web page
 

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Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 05-10-2015, 04:30 PM:
 
GUYS LOOK!!

Microperf!



760lbs
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-10-2015, 06:43 PM:
 
Gonna curve that 1.8 gain screen or just live with the hot spot?
 

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Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 05-10-2015, 07:09 PM:
 
Well the current screens are the late 90s AMC toris screens so it'll probably just stay that way.

Aaaaand that picture was oriented correctly when I posted it.....
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-11-2015, 10:05 AM:
 
Hmm and how will they get the suck on a perf screen?
 

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Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 05-11-2015, 10:11 AM:
 
It just needs to suck a whole lot harder.

But I don't really get this, is this screen for a Dolby Cinema install?
 

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Posted by Jonathan Goeldner (Member # 4854) on 05-11-2015, 10:19 AM:
 
don't see any mention for the DC metro area for a Dolby Cinema screen - pathetic... AMC you suck.
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-11-2015, 10:26 AM:
 
Well if they hang that on a torus compound curve frame it will just belly out in the middle so much for a concept of quality presentation.
 

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Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 05-11-2015, 10:57 AM:
 
Is the cross section the same for micro perf? (By that I mean solid vs. openings) If the cross section is the same the suction should not change. But of course the mechanical characteristics will be different.
 

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Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 05-11-2015, 12:07 PM:
 
Suck screens were always non perf
 

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Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 05-11-2015, 12:42 PM:
 
Yes it's for a Dolby Cinema install

And I guess I'm wrong about the toris. But the existing screen is indeed curved, and the corners rounded.
 

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Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 05-11-2015, 01:54 PM:
 
Well, if Dolby Cinema is somewhat consistent, it should end up being a 100% flat screen, so no torus and no curve and also no sucking .
 

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Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 05-11-2015, 01:58 PM:
 
One can hope!
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-11-2015, 06:55 PM:
 

quote: Marcel Birgelen

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Well, if Dolby Cinema is somewhat consistent, it should end up being a 100% flat screen, so no torus and no curve and also no sucking

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Marcel...no physical sucking, but no masking is still sucking.
 

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Posted by Randy Pryde (Member # 7488) on 05-11-2015, 09:57 PM:
 
I am not familiar with MDI screens, but Harkness recommends microperf for viewing positions under 16 feet. Does AMC/Dolby Vision plan on seats that close to a 29' tall image? Or would they specify microperf to avoid possible moire patterns?

Always interesting to see how the big boys approach tech design.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-12-2015, 04:58 AM:
 
And what is with the 1.8 gain? There is no way to achieve SMPTE/DCI spec on brightness uniformity on a flat screen with a gain above 1.3.
 

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Posted by Max Biela (Member # 1919) on 05-12-2015, 11:21 AM:
 

quote: Marcel Birgelen

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Well, if Dolby Cinema is somewhat consistent, it should end up being a 100% flat screen, so no torus and no curve and also no sucking

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quote: Greg Staten

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I headed out to the AMC Deerbrook this afternoon to watch Tomorrowland in Dolby Cinema. The biggest problem with the presentation was that the red (not blue) aisle lighting dimmed only slightly and as a result there was a very annoying red illumination of the bottom corners of the screen.

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quote: Bobby Henderson

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I'm also wondering if AMC has any sort of exclusive deal with Dolby on installing "Dolby Cinema" screens. It will be interesting to see if any competing theater chains install Dolby Cinema in the full configuration.

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quote: Max Biela

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The Dolby Cinema screen in Eindhoven is curved IIRC.

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quote: Bobby Henderson

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Did AMC change any of the interior decor of the Prime screen? Your description of the theater makes it sound like all that was changed was the screen and projectors in the booth.

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quote: Lyle Romer

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Having dealt with fire marshals, it is very possible that everything was done/calibrated and he came in complaining about aisle lighting and whoever was there turned it up but didn't notice the effect on the screen.

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They just need to tell the customers to stop setting fires in the theater. I mean, damn, no campfires in the aisles, right?

 

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Posted by Greg Staten (Member # 8848) on 05-26-2015, 03:53 PM:
 

quote: Lyle Romer

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You should really send an email to AMC (and Dolby if possible) regarding the light bleed. It might be something the fire marshal made them do but there may be a solution they can come up with.

Having dealt with fire marshals, it is very possible that everything was done/calibrated and he came in complaining about aisle lighting and whoever was there turned it up but didn't notice the effect on the screen.

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quote: Paul H. Rayton

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Specifics about HDR: It is timed/graded to be projected at 31FL (as compared to 14 to 16 for "normal" shows). It is intended to produce the High Dynamic Range of the name, thus allowing it to show textures in the blacks of the image.

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quote: Paul H. Rayton

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The HDR is (according to reports) VERY impressive. A "film only" friend of mine saw it there and, so it seems, it's basically enough to push him out of the "film is the only way to see a picture projected" camp.

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quote: Bobby Henderson

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The "HDR" they're talking about in movies sounds a whole lot different. Unfortunately it's sounding a little fake to me. I guess I just don't know enough about what they're doing in the photography process and post production process to know for sure. Considering how movie production and exhibition companies have played very fast and loose regarding truth in advertising in recent years I feel justified to be more than a little suspicious.

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quote: Paul H. Rayton

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A "film only" friend of mine saw it there and, so it seems, it's basically enough to push him out of the "film is the only way to see a picture projected" camp.

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quote: Bobby Henderson

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He set me straight on 12-bit versus 10-bit content. A bunch of the 3D stuff is 10-bit though. However, there is a pretty big difference between 12-bit and 16-bit content (or even 32-bit, which OpenEXR apparently does support). And then you have to consider all the extra things that can be done with OpenEXR. Not all of that can be compressed down into a 12-bit DCP with a 250Mb/s max bit rate. It certainly can't fit into current consumer video playback standards, and the consumer electronics space is the ultimate destination for Dolby Vision tech. That's why I wonder just what kind of video file a Dolby Cinema theater is playing when playing HDR content.

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quote: Carsten Kurz

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Dolby Cinema currently does not yet have the final Dolby Vision contrast enhancement light engines available. What they are doing different is they use special mastering/grading to deal with their specific brightness/contrast levels, tailored to their specific auditoriums.

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quote: Carsten Kurz

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3D DCI is 12bit XYZ just as 2D is. 'Legacy' systems drop to 10Bit 4:2:2 YCbCr only for the transmission part over dual HD-SDI links.

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quote: Marcel Birgelen

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The system, like many of the more recent Series 2 installs is capable of doing more than 250 Mbit/s. This particular system should be capable of doing HFR 3D in 4K. Compressing this down into 250 MBit/s will get very messy.

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quote: Marcel Birgelen

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On the production side of things... I'm not sure if any camera out there is fully capable of recording "HDR" in the full "PQ color space" in a single exposure.

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quote: Bobby Henderson

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Very messy indeed when you look at some of the constraints in how movies have to be encoded in JPEG2000. No interframe compression is allowed. There are limits to the amount of tiling that can be done. Chroma subsampling is indeed a big part of JPEG compression, but if that and use of interframes is off the table then things have to get more severe in other areas. Blu-ray has more tools at its disposal via MPEG-4 AVC or VC-1 with being able to efficiently compress video, plus they're not trying to squeeze something like 4:4:4 video onto the disc. AFAIK, none of the Hollywood movies released on Blu-ray have been "deep color" at all, despite the early hype about deep color capability in Blu-ray.

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quote: Bobby Henderson

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I find it amazing, or rather alarming, that some 2 hour DCP movie files can show up only 60GB or 70GB in size. Just what are they doing to squeeze the files down that small without breaking any of the rules? I've seen complaints about deplorable video quality in repetory titles on DCP, raising the suspicion the JPEG 2000 imagery was actually sourced from a Blu-ray encode. That's basically re-compressing an already lossy compressed source. Total shit standards of practice.

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quote: Bobby Henderson

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Now we're going to expect HDR to work within current DCP limits? Or 1080p and/or 4K on consumer electronics platforms? After years of putting up with Lie-MAX hype and a big screen being all that's needed to call something "large format," this just seems like another opportunity for people selling technology to play fast and loose with the truth.

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quote: Bobby Henderson

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For advertising purposes I don't think they'll use that kind of qualifier. Right a bunch of the hype is centering around how many stops of light certain cameras like the Arri Alexa XT can see (14+ according to the specs page) and what all can be done with that ARRIRAW footage in an uncompressed 16-bit workflow. That's all fine and dandy. Unfortunately the customers in the theater aren't really seeing any of that 16-bit uncompressed goodness. They're paying a lot of money to see a bit reduced approximation of it.

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quote: Carsten Kurz

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Dolby is not advertising Dolby Cinema as HDR yet. Nor is anyone advertizing HFR, HDR, Dolby Cinema , IMAX Laser etc. using legacy/HD-SDI systems.

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quote: Carsten Kurz

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If there is someone faking something, it's you because you seem to have no problem to make up issues for endless pages of discussions, but are not even interested in reading free docs that would help you in avoiding your false assumptions.

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