Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Cat 862 clock set to 6/30/2008

This is topic Cat 862 clock set to 6/30/2008 in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 12-10-2014, 08:44 PM:

A theatre I service had the experience that one day the date on there DSS 200 at boot-up was was 6/30/2008. This was the secure clock on the cat 862. Rebooting did not solve the problem. The keys all said one has to wait 6 years to play the feature. I suspect the battery that powers the secure clock died and that 6/30/2008 is the default date. This location fully powers down and powers up the next day. Any thoughts out there.

Posted by Nerijus Marmokas (Member # 6712) on 12-11-2014, 03:04 AM:

You should contact Dolby support, I think. Mediablock has a certain limitations, and it's needed a root access to set the clock.
And I think there are limits of how many times you can change the clock, if it you need to set it to more than 2hours interval.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 12-11-2014, 03:35 AM:

According to DCI specs, you cannot adjust the media block clock for more than 15 minutes a YEAR in either direction. Your Cat 862 is toast, with the gentle greetings of the Copyright Police. You'll need intervention by Dolby to get it fixed, this is also by design.

Entirely powering down your server, as in getting rid of standby power is a bad idea, since your media block will now rely entirely on backup battery power. Once this dies, you're out of luck.

Posted by Gavin Lewarne (Member # 5397) on 12-11-2014, 06:09 AM:

Is the Cat862s secure clock battery rechargeable (ie, it recharges when powered by the server during normal use) or is it a Lithium cell that will eventually fail?

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 12-11-2014, 06:56 AM:

It's not rechargable, it's a simple CR/BR type lithium-button cell.

It is wise to replace it in time, when there is some idle time or maintenance being done on the server, e.g. after 3-5 years. They cost only 1-2 US$.

- Carsten

Posted by Gavin Lewarne (Member # 5397) on 12-11-2014, 07:27 AM:

Thanks carsten, ill schedule that for next years service (it will be 3 years old then)

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 12-11-2014, 07:31 AM:

My previous post also contained an error, the maximum offset per year according to DCI specs is just 6 years.

GDC can and will, in some cases, fix those kind of date issues remotely. But Dolby will not do this, neither for their Dolby products and their Doremi products.

Those batteries usually do not fail spontaneously though, you should get log entries about potentially failing batteries. Doremi even has a fixed built-in timer, after 5 years, you're supposed to replace the main battery.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 12-11-2014, 07:44 AM:

quote: Marcel Birgelen
My previous post also contained an error, the maximum offset per year according to DCI specs is just 6 years.

Good you put this right ;-)

It's +/- 6min per calender year, so with a clear drift tendency, a max of 12min. And if you're forehanded, you can shift 12min on a 12/31 and another 12min on the following 01/01.

Doremi servers also output warnings towards battery life, based on a fixed timer. Don't know if the Dolby also does that and wether it has been ignored in this case.

- Carsten

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 12-11-2014, 06:30 PM:

The first thing I did is get in touch with Dolby tech support. Getting a cat 862 is another story. They are out of production and Dolby no longer exchanges boards out of warranty. They will fix yours if you have the time to wait. Solution here is going to be to get a cat 745 and put it in another screen that has a series 2 projector and move the cat 862 to this screen with a series 1. A fun time will be had tomorrow with the 4 hour drive in each direction.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 12-11-2014, 07:36 PM:

Are they no longer making conventional (non IMB) DSS200's?

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 12-11-2014, 08:24 PM:

The non-IMB versions of the DSS200 are indeed end of sale.

I didn't know though that they even don't have any Cat 862 spares at hand nowadays for out of warranty service calls.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 12-11-2014, 08:37 PM:

Nice support. It's just going off sale and a critical part is no longer available for repair / exchange? I had to replace my 862 last June. I am experimenting with an old DSS/DSP 100 as a spare. (Even less support but it would only be for emergency use.)

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 12-12-2014, 05:46 AM:

Yeah, your mighty expensive cinema gear now entered the realm of IT equipment... Going from End-of-Sale to End-of-Support in a handful of years. It's especially frustrating if you bought your gear at the end of the sale/support cycle.

The fact that the market will surely see some more consolidation (Dolby buying Doremi for example is the first sign of this), will also not help.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-13-2014, 05:27 AM:

Since Dolby has a 3-year warranty (with an option to purchase up to two additional years) on their DCinema servers, there would be still support for anyone buying on/at the end-of-sale point. I'll admit, Dolby was rather abrupt with the end of sale on the CAT862. They introduced the DSS200-6 last fall, continued to have it in the spring of 2014 but by September 2014, they were effectively sold-out of it and on the November 2014 it and the CAT862 as a spare part were off the price sheets. No doubt, they are keeping the remaining CAT862s as insurance that they can support the last DSS200-6 for the next 3-years (to 5-years if you purchased the extended warranty).

Of the big server companies in the USA market, Doremi (the other Dolby) is the last one that supports series 1/HDSDI type mediablocks. In fact, they are still on the new Dolby price list. Whereas we are now 5-years since the last Series 1 projector was made, there is going to be an increasing lack of support for them since all series 2 projectors can take the IMB/IMS solutions. Which is cool since TI finally has their software for the Enigma finally fixed for the series 2 projectors [Roll Eyes]

I definitely see the day where people play musical servers of rotating IMB systems in to series 2 projectors to free up HDSDI servers for their series 1 machines. Then again, as some Series 1 projectors are now a full 10-years old, I also see that they will start to be retired when a catastrophic failure occurs or as manufacturers pull support for them.

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 12-13-2014, 02:39 PM:

As far as I know Dolby only has a 1 year hardware warranty. Two year on software upgrades. Extended warranty are available for a fee. Also Christie only has a 1 year warranty on accessories. Like lenses. I know a place that has a problem with the zoom binding up on a cp2220. It is not the usual motor alinement problems. Just the zoom adjustment getting to stiff for the motor. Projector is a little over a year old. They will have to buy a new lens to fix or just do the adjustment manual by turning by hand. This is a single screen. Not the end of the world.

Back to the cat 862. The batteries are not easily field replaceable. They are welded/soldered in.

Yesterday I was doing what someone else mentioned. Putting an IMB in a series 2 screen and moving the good cat 862 to the series 1 screen with the bad secure clock. Ran into an interesting problem. The cat 862 with the bad secure clock set the system clock to June 30, 2008. The good 862 when it saw this said to itself that the dss 200's certificates were not valid and would not connect. Solution is to go into the bios at boot-up and set the system clock to the correct time and date. Dolby tech support was not aware of this issue. They had me doing unconfig and reconfiging and ultimately a clean install. None of which worked. Setting the system clock did

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-13-2014, 06:13 PM:

You'd be incorrect there on the Dolby Warranty for DCinema server products. The DSS200 and DSS220 carry a 3-year parts and software warranty.

Fear not...they didn't write it clearly. The way it is worded is that it comes with 1-year and then they INCLUDE a 2-year extended warranty with each purchase. The Software maintenance is 3-years included.

You can download their warranty statement here:

http://www.dolby.com/us/en/about/warranty-and-maintenance-policies.html

Note this policy has been in place for quite some time...at least to the DCI compliance software (4.4.0.48). It USED to be 1 year hardware and 2-years software (may have be 3-years software at first...I don't recall...never ran into the limit before).

There is an option to purchase years 4 and 5 for the hardware and one can purchase software for years 4+ either as a subscription or as a one-time purchase for a particular version you feel you need. Note, only the CAT862 has a means to require you to obtain a KDM to update it too...it is the honor system for the CAT745.

They also seem to have a rising tide raises all boats clause...that is, if you have a newer system (or CAT745) within the complex, they will issue the update to the older systems to maintain compatibility within the complex. However, the DSS100/DSP100 (now 5.5 years past the last coming off the line) one cannot go beyond System 4.7.3.3.

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 12-13-2014, 07:04 PM:

If you say so but I know the dealer I deal with has had the one year warranty thrown at him by the company Dolby contracts to do the repair exchange stuff. And the date of purchase is the date the dealer purchases from Dolby. So if it is sitting on the dealer's shelf it is using up the warranty. Can you point me where in those documents that states that the purchase comes with an extended 2 year hardware warranty?

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 12-13-2014, 07:24 PM:

quote: Stephan Shelley
And the date of purchase is the date the dealer purchases from Dolby.

And are you sure this is an OFFICIAL dealer?!

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 12-13-2014, 07:31 PM:

Think so. He worked in the film group a long time at Dolby in SF before starting his own company.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 12-13-2014, 07:53 PM:

I doubt Dolby will support those kind of practices. Usually, if you buy Dolby equipment (or any other equipment), your warranty period starts at the day it has been delivered to you. Sure, in most countries/states/provinces/localities you're free to establish whatever whacky terms you want, as long as it's an agreement between two companies. But I for once, would never agree to such terms and conditions.

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 12-13-2014, 09:42 PM:

I know of no unofficial Dolby dealers in North America. The warranty begins when the equipment is shipped which is the date on their invoice . I've fought this one more than once. I know of no dealers who offer other than the official Dolby warranty. There are times when you have to shop for opinions on what the exact policy is.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-13-2014, 10:26 PM:

If you download the warranty PDF I linked to...scroll down to the grid (Exhibit A) and it will list the "Extended Warranty" that is included. If you compare the DSS200 to say the CP750, you'll see that the CP750 only comes with 1-year and 0 years of Extended warranty included...so it only comes with the 1-year. But for software, 3-years are included on the CP750...like all other Dolby professional products.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 12-16-2014, 06:24 AM:

There are now probably a lot of CAT862 sleeping in DSS200' which have been upgraded with CAT745. They could create an aftermarket for Series I machines, if the people in charge keep them in mind (and mind the batteries as well).

Has Dolby issued a technote on how to store a CAT862 properly? Will the batteries last longer if the card remains in the DSS200 and stays powered during operating hours of the server?

- Carsten

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 12-17-2014, 07:12 AM:

Does this mean that other DSS200 parts are also NLA on an RXO basis? Isn't this going to tick off a lot of owners who will be forced to buy and have installed an IMB *or* have a screen down for weeks or months (or be out of business for singles) while their own 862 goes through the repair process?

I realize that recent buyers that are under warranty are covered but I could see people using the fact that new 862-equipped 200's are being sold (up until recently) as a guide that implies "We should be okay for a long time to come because they still sell what we have brand new."

Someone left high and dry is apt to consider other options on their next purchase.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-17-2014, 12:28 PM:

Since the DSS200i is still current as well as the DSL200...both of which use the same parts (with the exception of the RAID controller for the DSL200), DSS200-3 parts should not be an issue in the near future. Just the CAT862...which I believe would be under RXO while the server is in warranty. Price wise, like with the other server companies, it would likely be cheaper to buy an IMB (CAT745) than what was the cost of the CAT862 (or at least on par). The primarily issue would be from those with Series 1 projectors that don't have a choice of an IMB.

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 12-17-2014, 01:29 PM:

It becomes a moot point in June next year anyway [Frown]

Posted by Gavin Lewarne (Member # 5397) on 12-17-2014, 01:40 PM:

what happens in june?

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 12-17-2014, 08:01 PM:

Transition to Doremi hardware. Present stock of DSS200 i6 and DSS220 will be used up.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-17-2014, 08:54 PM:

Has that already been announced?

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 12-18-2014, 01:08 AM:

I heard it from a couple of senior people at Show East. Stands to reason they will run out before that.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-18-2014, 04:45 PM:

I have now seen it in written form (dated just a few days ago.) <sigh>

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 12-18-2014, 05:07 PM:

Any specifics towards the CAT745? Will they let it die too, or could they find a way to address it from a Doremi server? What a waste that would be - but I guess it wouldn't make much sense to have both IMBs + the IMS as separate product lines in a declining market?

- Carsten

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 12-18-2014, 06:51 PM:

Cat745 is history.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-18-2014, 08:22 PM:

Yep...the entire line is done after 6/30/15. The CAT745 lives on, in a sense, with the USL server.

From what I can tell, Dolby is hoping to bridge the two system with the Doremi TMS and allow it to be more Dolby aware to retain its features.

Posted by Gavin Lewarne (Member # 5397) on 12-19-2014, 04:28 AM:

Well this is pretty sucky.

We are a VPF site with a two year old DSS200 + CAT862. Hopefully dcinex have a good supply of spare parts - I cant see them offering any swaps to doremi equipment under the 10 year hardware warranty plan, not without some significant costs involved to the exhibitor should the need arise.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-19-2014, 04:35 AM:

Dolby should have parts for, at least, 3-years after discontinuation. Of the DCinema things we have had to deal with...the CAT862 (and the DSS200 as a whole) have been on the high-side of reliability. While I know there have been CAT862 failures...we have yet to need to replace one.

But I agree on the suckiness of the decision. I would have hoped they would have kept the DSS line active until such time as they could have a new server that was an upgrade to both lines.

In exhibitor speak...I'd much rather compete with myself (have people buy either the Dolby or Doremi server) than to make people that were buying the Dolby server have to merely consider the Doremi or go someplace else. People that chose the Dolby server had the opportunity to go with Doremi...how do you know that Doremi would have been their 2nd pick?

Posted by Gavin Lewarne (Member # 5397) on 12-19-2014, 04:49 AM:

I know that when we originally signed up to the VPF I was given the choice of server and projector equipment, nothing was forced on me. I did my research and spoke to several other locations that were running Doremi and NEC. I didn't like what I heard so we went for Dolby + Barco.

I remember our original installer saying that was a pretty radical choice (considering the popularity of Doremi here), but I have to say in 2 years we have only lost 2 shows, ever. And that was because our enigma board died.

Our dolby kit has been incredibly reliable. Sure, it has had some weird things happen, but nothing that has ever impacted on things the customers would know about.

Now I am questioning my original decision and wondering about the state of support / software upgrades in the future.

All in all, im not too happy about this. Luckily, I suppose, I have the VPF hardware warranty of 10 years as a safety blanket, however good that is going to be now.....

I worry about what is going on over at dolby. About a year ago now they completely pulled out of content creation business in the UK (they produced Pearl and Dean advertisement drives), CP750 support seemed to have stopped with 1.2.8.3 2+ YEARS ago, and now this.

I think I will write to dcinex and enquire about ongoing warranty support on Dolby equipment they supplied.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 12-19-2014, 06:40 AM:

quote: Pete Naples
Cat745 is history.

Woa. That must hurt. I guess they spent a lot of money into it when they bought it from USL and then needed to dig into the software development themselves. Now it's just established and - boom. I guess no one cares about the DSS220.

- Carsten

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 12-19-2014, 01:23 PM:

The DSS220 is a server. The 2K4 is not. From the chassis point of view - and not only.

<sigh>

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 12-19-2014, 02:54 PM:

I would comply if you'd written 'DSS200'. What makes the DSS220 a server? And what would that mean in the cinema environment, given the absence of CRU bay, hardware RAID, IO, etc.? The intent clearly was to strip down the DSS200 to the bare necessary. There's nothing on it that makes it special or exceptionally suited.

- Carsten

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 12-19-2014, 03:37 PM:

the server graded chassis.

Posted by Magnus Eriksson (Member # 6085) on 12-19-2014, 08:10 PM:

Oh s**t. Sweden is a 90 - 95% Dolby 'classic' territory.
"Wootton Bassett, we have a problem" :-/

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 12-19-2014, 10:06 PM:

Seems that in fact Doremi bought Dolby...

- Carsten

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 12-20-2014, 01:01 AM:

Does someone want to start a new thread? This is pretty major stuff to be buried at the end of an unrelated topic.

Posted by Philip Jones (Member # 6677) on 12-20-2014, 03:46 AM:

In a case like this would the content providers reissue KDMs which cover the dates the media block thinks it is so you can still run until the repairs are made?

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 12-20-2014, 06:48 AM:

I reckon Dolby will keep supporting and developing for DSS servers for a long time, and support will be stopped when it would have been if Dolby had kept its DSS line active.
That being said, it's a sad day today [Smile]

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 12-20-2014, 08:22 AM:

quote: Philip Jones
In a case like this would the content providers reissue KDMs which cover the dates the media block thinks it is so you can still run until the repairs are made?

Most certainly not. And it's quite likely that their KDM issuing software would protect from creating KDM with past time windows.

I wouldn't even be sure if the CAT 862 would play any encrypted content once the clock has experienced this.

- Carsten

Posted by Philip Jones (Member # 6677) on 12-20-2014, 10:08 AM:

Seems stupid that people can lose shows over a battery.

I only asked because we had a trailer for Interstellar recently and instead of putting the expiry as 2014, they put 1913 so obviously it can be done.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-20-2014, 11:27 AM:

Note...I've checked on the CAT862 battery thing. It is never expected to be changed. The CAT862 uses a super-capacitor with a battery backup on top of that. The unit has to be unplugged for something like many months to a year before the battery backup kicks in and then you have the life of the battery...So, in short...unless it is just sitting on a shelf..the CAT862 shouldn't run into battery problems under any sort of normal circumstances.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 12-20-2014, 12:23 PM:

I hope they put new batteries in the ones they send out as RXO's.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-20-2014, 01:09 PM:

Let's move all non-cat862 discussion over to this new dedicated thread.

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 12-27-2014, 04:30 PM:

The Cat 862 in question here was powered up for several hours each day. Dolby tech support said it was rare for this to happen but not unheard of.

I think I mentioned it before but if any of you come across this make sure to go into the bios and reset the system time so that the replacement mediablock will connect.