Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: New Philips Lamp not reaching full power in Barco DP2K-15C projector

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Posted by Ethan Dutcher (Member # 8319) on 12-11-2014, 02:57 PM:

I'm having an issue with a new lamp I installed today and was wondering if anyone has run into something similar. I installed a 3k Philips Helios lamp (XDC-3000BH) in my Barco DP2k-15C projector and although the lamp strikes and everything seems fine as far as indicator lights are concerned, I am only getting a 2.6k power reading from the lamp. I can change the power rating by moving the Z-axis, but 2.6 is as high as I can get it, I can bring it down to 2.3 by moving it forward.

Can anyone think of a reason why the lamp won't run at full power? I'm only getting about 7 foot lamberts and I can normally get up to 12 with a new lamp(we were using Osram lamps before but we switched because they were all failing between 800-1000 hours, this is our first Philips)

Posted by Gavin Lewarne (Member # 5397) on 12-11-2014, 03:11 PM:

are you certain you selected the correct model of lamp when resetting the lamp hours in Communicator? The LPS will only provide the range of current for the lamp programmed.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 12-11-2014, 03:11 PM:

uhm... the z-axis? The power level is a slider on the communicator which goes from 0 to 255. Disable the CLO and set the slider to 255 and see.

That said, i believe you should check the current and the voltage (which is not shown). The lamp may offer a slightly different resistance and as a consequence your wattage may be lower, but you should see the proper current. Check on the card inside the lamp and divide the current over the minimum voltage allowed, you should get a figure similar to what you see on the communicator. I've seen that before with a different brand.

I am not 100% sure of the above, so please feel free to insult me [Smile]

Posted by Gavin Lewarne (Member # 5397) on 12-11-2014, 03:14 PM:

no you are quite right, moving the x/y/z axis on the lamp will only adjust the focusing of the light onto the integrator rod via the cold mirror. It wont adjust the actual power going into the lamp

EDIT: focusing the lamp will adjust lamp power if the CLO is enabled as the system tries to compensate with more or less power to maintain a consistent luminance, but it will only adjust it within the range set by the programmed lamp that it thinks is in the machine

Posted by Ethan Dutcher (Member # 8319) on 12-11-2014, 03:23 PM:

I chose the XDC-3000B option when changing the lamp, it did not have a BH option available. Where can I check if CLO is enabled? I'm positive that moving the z-axis changes the power rating on the communicator software, maybe CLO got enabled when I changed over to a different lamp type than we were using?

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 12-11-2014, 03:26 PM:

yes, then your CLO is enabled. The projector is adjusting the current to achieve the light which has been set as a target. Adjusting the Z-axis you are reducing/increasing the light and the projector adjusts to compensate.

INSTALLATION-LAMP-LIGHT OUTPUT (by memory).

Disable CLO and crank it up [Smile]

Posted by Gavin Lewarne (Member # 5397) on 12-11-2014, 03:29 PM:

And once you found your target, remember to set that in all applicable presets. at the very least you will need to do the same for all your flat/scope presets

Posted by Ethan Dutcher (Member # 8319) on 12-11-2014, 03:36 PM:

Ok, just checked and CLO is not enabled. I enabled it and tried changing the Z-axis and it is acting exactly the same. I am running at 100 amps and voltage is
++12 = 12
+24 = 24
pump = 19
tec = 12

At this point I'm guessing it is due to this being a Helios lamp, even though It says this projector is supported. I can run like this for a bit, but unfortunately I'll probably have to pull this lamp the moment it starts getting darker.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 12-11-2014, 04:06 PM:

What software versions are in the projector? New lamp data is part of the software updates. Really old versions have no listing for many popular lamps - Barco couldn't make up lamp data for lamps yet to be introduced.
You do not adjust lamp power using the lamphouse focus adjustments. If the unit is in CLO then the power will change as the projector tries to maintain image brightness... but with the unit in "standard" lamp power control, moving the lamphouse focus will not change lamp power.
The Communicator software for touchpanel or PC will turn CLO off when you open "lamp alignment" (and pops up a window telling you about it) - very old versions will not do that. trying a lamp alignment with CLO active is not fun.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 12-11-2014, 04:33 PM:

Ethan,

Did you read my and Gavin's posts?

Posted by Ethan Dutcher (Member # 8319) on 12-11-2014, 05:07 PM:

The projector is acting the same with or without CLO enabled, moving the Z-axis changes the power reading. The projector is running software version 1.11.136, I think it was updated last march or april.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 12-12-2014, 12:31 AM:

It's up to 1.14 now.

Philips are the worst bulbs to use in a BARCO hands down.

USHIO DXL-30BAF/L bulbs are the ones to use in that 15C projector.

Bet the light reading sensor isn't doing its thing too well if one get those low readings.

When I do bulbs in a BARCO (I have 15 BARCOS to mess with - from two 12C up to two 32B units), I do focus first to get a high number, then the two lateral adjustments to see if I can squeeze out any more, then I do it over again just to eke out a bit more light.

You can easily check to see if you got the right bulb when looking at the bulb info in the "install" section of the menu.

(Course, when I had a few bad light output sensors, I would do the focus the old fashioned way by running the white screen test pattern and do the alignment optically for the brightest light on the screen).

-Monte

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 12-12-2014, 04:44 PM:

1.12, Monte.

I can't see how adjusting the Z-axis with CLO disabled can change your power reading.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-13-2014, 06:11 AM:

Barco currently does not have the XDC-3000BH lamp (even in 1.12.160). The parameters are NOT the same as the XDC-3000B). The voltage of the BH is lower and the maximum current is higher. So, until Barco issues such a lamp file in the next software update, you would need to create your own. However, it might be worth checking with Barco's tech support to see if they have a lamp file that can be put into your projectors (who knows, even Philips may have made one...they would know its parameters).

If making your own, you would need to be able to edit an existing file, I'd start with the standard 3000B and change the current max to 110, nominal current to 100, the maximum run time to 4320000 (seconds), the run time message to 4233600 seconds, run time warning 4320000, run time shutdown 43200000 (always 10X warranty life to ensure you can run it to whatever time you want though I don't know of any lamp that will make it 10X).

You'd also have to change the article number (and put in its proper name). The article number CAN'T be of the same number that Barco would use. You HAVE to start your article number with R103. So you could create R1039284168, for example (I picked the ordering code to keep it unique). I don't believe you can have any letters in the name after the "R103"

Then, after you've gotten all frustrated with the Philips...come on over to Ushio! You'll get your hours AND your light!

Out of curiosity...what size screen do you have and do you know the gain? Do you happen to know, for sure, if the CLO was calibrated so you have any reasonable expectations that its number means anything? It would need to be calibrated for each lens position (and format, if you are doing 3D).

However, it sounds like from the posts above that you are struggling to just figure out how to operate the projector/communicator first. By moving the "Z" axis...are you doing that with communicator? Do you REALLY have motorized lamp controls (very few do). Or are you manually focusing the lamp? And why would you think that is the proper way to adjust the current?

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 12-13-2014, 06:22 AM:

the latest Philips lamp file for Barco up to 1.12 is on the Philips website. That should be an official lamp file, I'd give it a go. Not sure if the BH is in the list.

Philips lamp file

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-13-2014, 07:17 AM:

Interesting. I didn't try to load that onto any of the projectors we service...but I did look into the release notes:

It dates back to December of 2013 and contains "Fake" article numbers starting with R105 and that it is for lamps NOT APPROVED by Barco.

So the lamp you are using may very well be listed in that file. The Release notes don't specify what lamps are included.

I would definitely take a Philips made configuration file over a homemade one (you'll be sure to have all of the right parameters but it is interesting that Barco hasn't "approved" them. Then again, I don't know what sort of money has to change hands to be "approved." There could be external factors in play.

But seriously...just get the Ushios!

Posted by Ethan Dutcher (Member # 8319) on 12-13-2014, 11:34 AM:

Thanks for the input Steve I'll look into making a new lamp file after the weekend. Also, I'm well aware that moving the Z-axis is not the proper way to change the lamp current, I'm just sharing my observation about what is happening with the lamp. We have manual controls like normal, I had simply never seen the current change when moving the lamp around. CLO had never been setup on the projector, I have no clue as to why the lamp power is changing even in standard mode.

Our screen is about 30 foot diagonal, no idea on the gain. I've only been here for about six months and the place has been open almost 30 years, I know the screen was replaced once but there is no documentation I can find in the building.

This is also the first Barco I've worked with, my previous theatres had Christie/Sony installs, so I'm certainly still learning a bit about it.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 12-13-2014, 12:45 PM:

I suggest before you try making your "own" file, if a factory one exists (like the link pointed to for Philips; the file you need is towards the bottom of the page), I'd start there. As I said previously, the manufacturer would know what the safe parameters are for the lamp.

See if the lamp is in that file. You'll need sufficient privileges to perform a software update...it will go fast since it will just affect the lamp files.

Again, if you have sufficient privileges, then going to the Installation>Lamp>Light Output will let you see Power and Current simultaneously. Voltage is not interesting at that point since current and power are the limiting factors and voltage can be derived.

If you don't have sufficient privileges, then Just going to the "Service" tab will let you see power.

If the CLO hasn't been calibrated, then the numbers are meaningless.

Posted by Ethan Dutcher (Member # 8319) on 12-15-2014, 04:09 PM:

Ok, I switched over to the Philips lamp files and that got the lamp running at 3k. It is still not as bright as I would like, but it will do fine. I went ahead and ordered an Ushio for next time, thanks again for the assistance everyone.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 12-17-2014, 06:25 PM:

I'm using Ushio 30BAF/L bulbs in my two 15c units on screens over 30 ft wide, getting close to 17fL running with the power in CLO mode and bulb is only shooting out around 2500W of light.

When I throw the white test pattern on the screen, it doesn't look the best after a full install with alignment, but as when the image is on the screen, you do have a good picture.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 12-17-2014, 06:30 PM:

Hmm, that's not overwhelming for a 3k Bulb on a 30ft screen!?

- Carsten

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 12-18-2014, 04:54 AM:

Monte,

What is wrong with the white pattern in your opinion? DCI white point may look "yellowish" but that's just a reference to make sure your projector is outputting the same colours seen in the studio. What then the colourists do is another story!

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 12-18-2014, 02:33 PM:

Why I used the white is when the light sensor in the Barco isn't working, thus I can't use the light output scale in the Communicator to get the maximum light levels when doing the XYZ adjustments.

Thus, I use the white light test to get the brightest illumination on the screen.

It's like doing the bulb focus test when doing 35mm.