Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: image from barco´s 10S looks pallid

This is topic image from barco´s 10S looks pallid in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Mike Moreno (Member # 4887) on 12-30-2014, 09:56 PM:

hi.
We have 6 Barco Dp2k10S projectors, they are relatively new and the image looks pallid or opaque.
i clean the lens screen window and nothing make it look better.
i remember when they just arrive the image looks good.

do you have some advice that can help us to fix that?

thanks guys
and happy new year

mike moreno
mexico

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 12-30-2014, 10:41 PM:

Is there a lot of dirt in the air? Can you smell popcorn in the booth?
Is the front of the lens clean? Lenses and other projector optics need special care, use only optical wipes or clean microfibre cloth and pure (99.6%) isopropyl alcohol for any cleaning.
Check the rear element of the lens, and the front of the light engine prism. They might be coated with some air pollution but generally they stay quite clean.
There are assorted settings in the projector that can result in "pallid" image quality... but they don't change themselves, especially not to 6 projectors at the same time. Do you have a staff member who likes to play? That does happen.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 12-31-2014, 05:27 AM:

Mike,

Remember that if you remove the lens then you'll have to home and return it for your lens file to be accurate again. Make sure you are familiar with the system before you play with it.

What about your light levels? A dark picture may appear as dull. Did your installer set up CLO on your projector? What is the light level displayed by the communicator and what is your lamp power? Do you have a 3D device in front of the projector?

S-series have proper HEPA filters, hopefully they're doing a better job than the previous mesh ones.

Posted by Mike Moreno (Member # 4887) on 01-02-2015, 11:35 AM:

yes, i use only isopropilyc.
about the lens home i do that when i remove the lens.

i think im going to call tech support because they sey you can use compressed air to clean the light engine.

mike moreno
mexico

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 01-02-2015, 11:39 AM:

Mike - was the image better before? Since when are these systems installed? Any specific operational conditions - a very dusty environment, etc.?

- Carsten

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 01-02-2015, 02:44 PM:

What about the projector window glass? If they are coated and cleaned with alcohol the coating can become cloudy. I've also had double pane glass where the inside of the glass gets dirty and can be hard to disassemble to clean.

Posted by Mike Moreno (Member # 4887) on 01-02-2015, 03:09 PM:

all port windos are clean and about the enviroment mmm well this 6 projectors are in diferents complex and also diferent cities.
the environment does not feel popcorn smell but yes those are dusty places and we work hard to clean at least every 2 or 3 days. and this only happens with these 10S projectors. we have 20c, 15C and some christies and they work fine.

Posted by Bob Ezra (Member # 841) on 01-02-2015, 05:54 PM:

Hi Sam

Abrissa recommends alcohol on their coated glass and I'm not so sure. What do you use?

Thanks

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 01-02-2015, 08:10 PM:

I think it is ammonia based cleaners that fog the coating. It is often a component in consumer glass cleaner. When I got coated eyeglass lenses the doctor warned me about cleaners with ammonia.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 01-02-2015, 10:21 PM:

I was told to avoid any ammonia glass cleaners (most home glass cleaner stuff) on any coated optics.
Pure isopropyl alcohol cleans well but it is hard to get rid of all streaks. Coated lens cleaner is very good but doesn't remove popcorn oil as well as alcohol. Use lens tissue or Kimwipes on coated glass and rub as little as possible. Facial tissue (Kleenex) is very abrasive even though it feels good on your skin while Kimwipes feel like sandpaper...?
I don't know why the 10s would look "pallid". I have quite a few 10s and 8s units working that haven't had any such problems. Since all four at your site are the same, I think something specific to your operation must be doing it. Maybe check the dates on your projector macro files (in file manager) to see if someone has been playing with them?

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 01-03-2015, 02:07 AM:

I meant to avoid ammonia based cleaners as in Windex. Senior moment.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 01-03-2015, 04:41 AM:

quote: Dave Macaulay
while Kimwipes feel like sandpaper...?

Dave,
had the same feeling! Guess I'll have to trust the professionals at Kimberley Clark? They realy work well even though I usually finish the cleaning with a microfiber cloth to remove streaks.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 01-03-2015, 06:42 AM:

Shouldn't ordinary wet goggles cleaner tissues serve all needs? They can be bought very cheap, individually packed and 'always clean' when used from a new pack. They should have no issues with coatings, should they?

- Carsten

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 01-03-2015, 07:13 AM:

kimwipes are disposable as well. I've found that most goggle cleaners contain too much water and leave streaks. Also, some anti-coating treatments don't like water-based chemicals.

Posted by Chris Markiewicz (Member # 1415) on 01-03-2015, 11:59 AM:

Have there been any changes to the projector settings since they were installed? It sounds as if the PCF files in the projector macros may be incorrect. Has alternate content (DVD or Blu-ray) been run on these machines? Are the images very bright and washed-out looking, or are they desaturated and kind of gray?

Posted by Mike Moreno (Member # 4887) on 01-03-2015, 01:06 PM:

im going to take a look on the pcf files. i dont tink some one change anithing but lets make sure.

Posted by Mike Moreno (Member # 4887) on 01-19-2015, 02:42 PM:

all the PCF files are ok in the projectors.
the tech said that they need to check the colos with the color analyzer camera.
lets see if thats true.

mike moreno
mexico

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 01-19-2015, 02:57 PM:

uhm... Colours don't drift so much on a Xenon projector.

You can try selecting the "Nominal" TCGD in a macro (write down the current TCGD first) and reselect it. It may be a bit bluish but it shouldn't look pallid at all.

I still bid for the brightness.