This is topic INTERMISSIONS in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Peter Clay (Member # 7844) on 03-10-2014, 03:05 PM:
 
Hi,

we have recently in the last year converted from film to Digital and we used to have intermissions which has been very difficult to find a way of doing these now that we are digital. I have done a lot of research on this in trying to find the best solution that is still cost effective for the size of the cinema that we are it would not make sense to spend thousands on lots of automation stuff.

The system we have is a doremi server and what we have managed to setup is the following. I created an Intermission picture in the .png format in Photoshop one sized for Flat and one sized for Scope. We then had our projector installer place these .png files in the projector itself stored as test patterns. Then we were able to setup an automation cue with in the playlist that would pause the film at whatever point we like and switch from the server to the projector and display the "test image". This actually works quite well, when you press play again another automation cue tells it to switch back to the server input and it continues to play the film where left off.

I do have a question though. Is there anywhere on the internet where you can find out the "reel" info that the DCP comes with. for instance I notice that on IMDB you can find out how many reels a film is but it does not say the reel length. This info would be handy as it could then be used to find the best possible place to insert the intermission.

I hope this all makes sense.

Regards
Pete
 

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Posted by David E. Nedrow (Member # 4981) on 03-10-2014, 03:11 PM:
 
This probably won't be valid much longer, but you can get "checkframe" sheets from Deluxe and Technicolor.

These generally provide the length/runtime of each reel, in addition to the first and last frame of that reel.

But, with the demise of 35mm exhibition, these will go away as well.
 

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Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 03-10-2014, 04:01 PM:
 
Doremi Software 2.6x will have a real intermission function. You can specify where in the main feature the intermission should start. You can then specify an intermission SPL that plays during the intermission, then exit the intermission either automatically after the intermission SPL has ended, or manually. You can also specify a roll back into the last xx seconds of the feature to continue.

Doremi 2.6.x should be released soon, I assume around Cinemacon.

Placing intermissions on reel changes is not a good idea with DCPs, I guess, since they can be completely seamless, you shouldn't expect a suitable scene cut there. Some DCPs even come without any reel segmenting, that is, single reel.

I think for a good intermission, you simply have to cue into the movie to find the best possible position. There are also some sites that collect credit offsets and suitable intermission suggestions.

This forum is one of them, e.g.: http://www.film-tech.com/ubb/f3/t004188.html

- Carsten
 

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Posted by Peter Clay (Member # 7844) on 03-11-2014, 07:08 AM:
 
Thanks Carsten,

That is some of the best news I've heard if version 2.6 does have that function. I know our head projectionist here will be happy as he keeps saying it should be possible if someone could just update the software. So for now we will keep to the "trick" we have and then something better later on.
 

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Posted by Anders Nordentoft-Madsen (Member # 3334) on 03-17-2014, 06:30 AM:
 
Version 2.6.3 is out now....
 

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Posted by Peter Clay (Member # 7844) on 04-08-2014, 08:24 AM:
 
Our projector "crashed" on us a few weeks ago (it was something to do with the "raid" board)

the guy came over and acknowledged the fault and said it had happened to a number of different cinemas with the same projector. He installed a new board and hard drives and also updated to the latest software. the new software is now 2.4.4 and although it hasn't enabled us to do a "proper" intermission he has installed an intermission image into the projector as a test image so we can pause the film and have the projector call up this image whilst it is paused. The new software as enabled us to "rewind" the film when we click play again which is a step in the right direction. basically I have set up an automation that after the pause when I click play it will rewind 2 secs before playing again.
 

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Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 04-08-2014, 04:47 PM:
 
If it was the RAID controller, it was the server that crashed and not the projector . (But since it's a Doremi server, it should actually be software RAID...)

The Intermission problem is a persistent one with Digital Cinema. Many cinemas around here also have intermissions, some handle it better than others. On the dark side are those who simply cut the movie roughly in half and don't even dare to check if it falls in the middle of some dialog or action scene...

For now, the only way to find a good timing for the intermission is by watching the movie during QC or first showing, or watch the forum that Carsten mentioned and look if somebody came up with some hints about an intermission. It's rather sad that studios don't provide some guidelines regarding intermissions but I guess most of them disapprove the concept entirely...
 

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Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 04-11-2014, 06:36 AM:
 
What format is the test image, Peter? Is it automatically generated when you select a certain channel? I'd certainly be interested in getting that here so I can have a logo on screen when patrons enter the auditorium if the show hasn't started yet.
 

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Posted by Peter Clay (Member # 7844) on 04-15-2014, 04:11 AM:
 
Hi John,

The test image is in png format. I made 2 images one in scope ratio and one in flat ratio. Our installer then came and uploaded these directly to the Projector and assigned each one to a different channel on the Projector.
How it works is
Channel 1 is IMS Flat
Channel 2 is IMS Scope
Channel 3 is HDMI
Channel 4 is Intermission image Flat
Channel 5 is Intermission image Scope

we then set up 2 automations, one that switches to channel 4 and one that switches to channel 5 depending on scope or flat film.
I'll put below the exact automation that I setup below for anyone else trying to do this.

INTERMISSION SCOPE
Projector dowser: close
Playback: PAUSE
Delay 1 seconds
Projector dowser: open
Switch on Projector channel 5
Delay 35 seconds
Projector Dowser: close
Delay 1 seconds
Switch on Projector channel 2

same for Flat automation but use the relevant channel numbers.

You can then insert that automation into your show at what time you want the intermission to start.
When you want the film to start again I created another automation that will reopen the dowser and continue playback which you insert into the playlist timeline 1 second later. All you then need to do is hit play when you want to resume the film. that automation looks like this.

INTERMISSION END
Playback: rewind 1 seconds
Projector Dowser: open

Sorry for such a long post but hopefully this will help people out their who are in a similar situation to ourselves.

Regards Pete
 

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Posted by Philip Jones (Member # 6677) on 04-16-2014, 07:52 AM:
 
Can the above be done with a Dolby DSS200 and NEC2000C?

I don't think we have cues for pause, play, etc on ours - is this a limitation with Dolby or can it be added?
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-16-2014, 11:45 AM:
 
The DSS200 will not self-pause...though I would suppose one could wire a GPO to the Pause input on the same GPIO connector. Via an automation, it should not be an issue.

Note, coming in Dolby 4.8 is an "intermission" function that allows one to basically insert a sub-play list where desired. It could prove to be handy beyond just making intermissions.
 

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Posted by Philip Jones (Member # 6677) on 04-16-2014, 01:24 PM:
 
That's great news. When is 4.8 likely to be released?
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-17-2014, 06:36 AM:
 
My crystal ball says May.
 

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Posted by Peter Clay (Member # 7844) on 04-17-2014, 01:46 PM:
 
The system we have is a NP-NC900C-A

It is an all in one Projector and Server.

Regards
Pete
 

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Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 04-17-2014, 02:17 PM:
 
Thanks Steve -- that is great news.
 

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Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 04-17-2014, 03:49 PM:
 

quote: Steve Guttag

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The DSS200 will not self-pause...though I would suppose one could wire a GPO to the Pause input on the same GPIO connector. Via an automation, it should not be an issue.

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quote: Terry Monohan

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Many years ago at the Century 21 Cinerama type Domes in San Jose CA the Syufy clan did this on some long features to sell more popcorn

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I worked for Syufy back then. They actually did it on every feature for a while until they were busted.

The manager ordered me to place the "Rocky" intermission right at the place where he would not have to pay the candy girls overtime rather than wait 3 minutes to a more "natural" place. Of course the last show of the night the intermission snipe would fly right through if I was not there to douse out and people would start to get up and then the show would continue to the end. Not exactly fine showmanship.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 01-09-2015, 07:39 PM:
 
Did the intermission snipe actually read "Intermission 10 minutes"? If not, then you delivered an intermission as advertised.
 

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Posted by Gavin Lewarne (Member # 5397) on 01-10-2015, 05:06 AM:
 
Our DSS200 is now running 4.8.something (cant remember, not there)

I was toying with the idea of using the intermission feature now available as a place to put Adverts And Previews so when those change, I only have one "show" to edit, not many

Can I add more than one intermission per playlist with this new feature or am I limited to 1?
 

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Posted by Terry Monohan (Member # 8285) on 01-10-2015, 12:42 PM:
 
Thanks Sam for your notes about the intermission bust at Syufy's Century theatres in San Jose. The old man must have been a true money saving type of owner. I hear he was one of the first to get rid of the union projectionists and janitors at his cinemas. I remember seeing all the pickets out front for many months. Many 35mm/70mm film prints were damaged by candy/manager type help. His make shift intermissions were loved by the older crowd that needed to go to the restroom, they skipped the candy counter because of the way to high prices. Those snack prices were cheap then compared to today's over priced drinks and popcorn.
 

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Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 01-10-2015, 06:07 PM:
 
My experiences were in Pleasant Hill. It was policy to put an intermission into any single feature or any double feature where either film was over 120 minutes.

We also had local screen ads but for various reasons they were run after the feature. Of course everyone had left before they rolled but we had to sign and verify the screen ads were run but omitting the fact they were run after the feature and not before. I don't have fond memories of this time and it gave just another reason to get out and be a tech.
 

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Posted by Annli Com (Member # 8266) on 01-11-2015, 04:13 AM:
 
All Indian Movies coming with intermission ( 2CPL ) ,Main reason allmost all films in minimum 150 miniute more length .All One Cpl Movies ( Hollywood ) Cut The Mid Part (using doremi intermission ),And Cinemas Income Not Only Depent in Tickets sale, popcorn and Adverticement is very big income source in cinema Exibitors
 

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Posted by Bill Cribbs (Member # 8278) on 01-14-2015, 11:20 AM:
 
It has been a few days, but I meant to get back to Carsten Kurz. Yes, USL is listening. First, I'd like to mention that when we heard about digital intermissions last Cinemacon, especially for venues overseas, we implemented the feature in our server, the CMS2200. Yes, you can get a USL cinema media server with both analogue and digital intermission. Ours seems to work similar to other server manufacturers in that an intermission playlist is created and inserted at a timecode within the feature playlist.

Regarding digital intermission in general, we hope that globally exhibitors will use digital intermission feature with respect.

Several of the suggestions are good ideas (about fading the audio and video), stop vs. pause may be a better idea. Potentially, stopping and switching to HDMI first? Going to black may be better than pausing a frame but what do we think about straight splicing? Or is it better to have short period of black between the feature and intermission?
 

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Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 01-14-2015, 04:06 PM:
 
I think a simple fade to/from black/silence would solve most needs. I don't know if that would be possible for HDMI inputs as well, but I think most users would be more than satisfied if the main feature would fade out, the intermission SPL/CPL would fade in, then vice versa when going back to the main features second part. It wouldn't need to be too complicated, even a decent fixed fade time would be sufficient. Just something that doesn't make it look like an equipment failure.
I guess no one is expecting a media block to become a video mixer, so a standard 1s fade time would be okay.

Basically, intermission DCPs could have their own rendered-in fades applied anyways, so, fade to/from black from/to the main feature would be completely sufficient. Although I guess if that capability is there, it would be easy to accomplish both as a standard feature.

Pause would keep the image on screen - but it would need to go away for the intermission CPL/SPL anyway, and then most people would choose a few seconds rewind anyway. I guess Stop after fade out is best.

Exhibitors usually have no choice about the main feature image and sound around the intermission point - so a fade will allow to exit gracefully.
But exhibitors do have a choice on their intermission material, they can put leading black there, their own fade in/out. So I think it is more important how to deal with the part that we can't control, that is the out- and in-point of the main feature. If the intermission cuts in hard technically, we can deal with that.

- Carsten
 

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