Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Automation advices for a BluRay screen

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Posted by Juan Jose Garcia Calvo (Member # 1702) on 01-31-2015, 05:50 AM:

Hello everybody!
We just re-opened only 2 screens in a 6 screens cinema theatre closed 6 years ago.
We installed a Barco DP2K 10SX in one of them, and the other one, we installed a simple FullHD projector with a Samsung bluRay player.
We need to automate this Bluray system and I need any advise about it.
The projector actually can be controlled through the Ethernet LAN, as it has a web based interface to control lamp on/off, no show (douser) and change configuration, inputs... and even it have RS232 control capabilities.
The problem is the player:
We need a bluray player that could be controlable through the LAN from a Windows based PC (not android or IOS).

We brought this LAN to IR device:
Broadlink RM Pro
It's a programable device that can make makros (a serie of IR commands), or even control RF commands.
This device make an aceptable work, it can be schedulled, it can make lights on and off and change audio format in our CP45 (with a two or four channels IR to relay board) but...
-It's only phone or Tablet APP, not WINDOWS.
-This device don't feedback us if the IR order was OK

As the projector have the web based control, we can check if the lamp has been correctly switched on, or the douser is open... , but we can't be sure about the player status, so we need a BluRay player that can be controlled over the LAN with somekind of Windows software or through a web based interface.

Another solution could be a device that can "backup" a BluRay disc and then, be schedulled to play it at the desired hour, and provide at least two GPIO interfaces to control audio input and lights on and off...
That's something like a DCI server, but not for DCPs, but for BluRays.
I read something about a ROPA Cinesuite CS2, but I can not find much information (first time I know about this device was through Karsten).
We need something as inexpensive as posible (if we have enought money, we prefer another Barco 10SX, he he he).

Here it came the questions:
Do you know others devices that can help us to automate this screen?
Do you know any inexpensives BluRay player with web based control interface or Windows based software?

Any advice and help will be welcomed!!.

Thanks

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 01-31-2015, 07:33 AM:

I know of no web based Blu-Ray players...RS232 and IR are all I've seen. One would have to look at the command set of the perspective player to know if will be sufficient. Blu-Rays are going to be problematic to automate depending on how they are authored. At the very least, you'll need to get it to the "home" screen and you'll also want to know how long the movie is to time the credits and end. You don't want the show to seem like it is just a home-based movie.

Naturally, we recommend the Oppo Blu-Ray player as the best out there. It has both RS232 as well as IR. It does have an App to allow remote control but not the Web-based control you seek.

Now the eCNA automation line are Web-based and could relatively simply allow you to set up a set of shows so you could have it start the show and time for the credits/end and get the show set up again. If _I_ had to do it...that would likely be the way I would approach it on the cheap. For real money, there are AMX and Crestron where the sky (and imagination) are the limit on what one can do.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 01-31-2015, 07:51 AM:

Oppo is your best choice, as the protocol is documented, and responses can be read back,

The Ropa CS is no longer available.

Some BluRay players can be controlled over LAN/WIFI with tablet apps directly. But I doubt their control protocol is documented.

Have a look at the Oppo RS232 protocol and see if it fits your needs.

- Carsten

Posted by Juan Jose Garcia Calvo (Member # 1702) on 01-31-2015, 08:46 AM:

Well Steve: disc coming from the distributor don't have any menus. The film is directly displayed as soon you pres the play button. Even as soon as you power on the samsung bluray the film starts itself. The problem is the player show in the screen the player welcome screen for some seconds, and that's something I don't want.
Carsten: about the Oppo, I must take a look on it. What is the most cost efective model for you?
About the ropa cs, if i find any used unit, do you think this could be usefull for me?
Somebody knows where can I find complete info about these ROPA devices?

Some news ideas:
It could be easy to rip the bluray disc the distributor gives us, and use somekind of multimedia player that can be programmed, something like the devices used in the advertising screen systems?
Maybe a windows PC with a bluray drive and appropiated software, using a line of MIDI orders to automate the lights, soung changes...
This software must be something like the one used for multimedia spectacles, where video, lights, DMX, MIDI, music are played sincronized...
Another idea is a device lime the datasat XD10, that can play altenative video contens, but I think it don't support fullHD...

Thanks

Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 01-31-2015, 10:24 AM:

The USL HSW-602 HDMI switch (http://www.filmjournal.com/filmjournal/content_display/news-and-features/news/technology-and-new-products/e3i61e4e6319c8a3281fed948362292cfb5 ) provides web and TCP transport control over HDMI.

Harold

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 01-31-2015, 11:31 AM:

quote: Juan Jose Garcia Calvo
Well Steve: disc coming from the distributor don't have any menus.

Maybe not in Spain, but here it is hit and miss. Some distribs tell you to go buy a commercial one and skip the extras and FBI warnings. And if you are planning to have non-commercial showings (film festivals, rentals) you need to be prepared for all sorts of stuff.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 01-31-2015, 06:32 PM:

quote: Harold Hallikainen
The USL HSW-602 HDMI switch

Wow - that's an interesting device - it seems it also contains an AES/EBU->HDMI converter, or is it only a switcher? Anything about pricing, Harold, Clint? I can't see it on USLs website yet.

- Carsten

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 01-31-2015, 07:41 PM:

quote: Juan Jose Garcia Calvo
It could be easy to rip the bluray disc the distributor gives us, and use somekind of multimedia player that can be programmed, something like the devices used in the advertising screen systems?

The safest bet is still to rip those and convert them to DCPs if you do have the time to do so and are going to install a proper DCI server. DCP-o-matic is a great, free and open source tool to accomplish this.

Most (or rather all) of the different media players I've encountered are not really suited for cinema purposes, as they don't support automation cues and you often have a hard time programming stuff like proper language and subtitle selection on features... It's already sufficiently hard to find devices that have some kind of dedicated control/presentation mode and don't bug you with OSDs.

So, maybe some refurbished DCI machine is really what you want, if you want it cheap. The other way would be highly experimental at best. If you do find a solution, be sure to let us know, as I'm all ears [Wink]

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 01-31-2015, 08:28 PM:

The issue with DCP-o-Matic is rendering time. It takes my computer (core i5 processor and 16GB of RAM) about 20 minutes to render a minute of content in 2K, or an hour in 4K. So trailers and shorts are no problem, but to render a full-length feature it would take around 2-3 days in 2K (no point in upscaling to 4K if the source is a BD).

If you have a specific computer that isn't used for anything else and can wait for the time it takes, no problem; but that's a long time to have a PC you need for other things tied up.

Posted by Mark Strube (Member # 4190) on 02-01-2015, 12:23 AM:

You need some custom programming on an Android-based media player to accomplish what you're looking for here. It's not going to be turnkey, it's most likely going to be custom unless you manage to find a video scheduling plugin. Here's a start...

http://www.amazon.com/Matricom-G-Box-Quad-Octo-Android/dp/B00QHLSKOE/

and

http://addons.xbmc.org/show/webinterface.awxi/

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-01-2015, 03:18 AM:

So if your Blu-Rays don't have any menus or other ad/warning garbage...it would be even easier to automat with something like the eCNA automation. You'd just change the timing of the Credit/End Show cues.

The current Oppos can keep their screen saver off as well as their icons. If you are waking the player up from off, yes, you'll see the Oppo splash screen. Then again, you should be able to blank the screen on most any projector via a "Video Mute" or mechanical douser (depending on projector model).

Harold...as for your switcher...it definitely looks pretty cool. Key features I look for in HDMI switching devices, particularly with matrixed outputs are how it handles HDCP AND EDID. The switcher needs to be both a sink and source. If it isn't the sink for the device, then when switching say a preview monitor between the main program and something else could cause the main output to need to re-establish its EDID and HDCP. Conversely, if the switcher is the sink and has the EDID of the main output (e.g. the projector)...the source never "sees" the switch happen and will be glitch free.

The other trick there and is encapsulated with the EDID is how the sound is handled. You'll want the main output to be able to use the "best" audio available (e.g. DTS Master Audio or Dolby True HD)...however you don't want the "preview" monitor to pollute that with just requesting stereo (or a lower resolution). Fortunately, Atlona has a device to prevent the audio problem (it is a stereo down mixer but takes in all forms of HDMI audio...always requesting the best available).

A continuing problem with HDMI is that with "typical" systems, the worst format "wins" the EDID war as EDID was designed for maximum compatibility, not maximum performance.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 02-01-2015, 06:27 AM:

Juan - the Ropa was kind of an E-Cinema Player, it later receiver J2k and DCI compatibility (KDM, etc.). However, it never received DCI compliancy testing. It was quite popular in germany for smaller cinemas. Quite a few distributors allowed their encrypted content to be played on it, but none of the majors.

It couldn't play BluRay directly, you had to rip if beforehand, but then you had all options for projector control, automation, etc. It was also used a lot as ad players.

However, at the end the retail price was nearly on par with a Dolby DSS200. Their follow-up also didn't make it through DCIs CTP, so last year they stopped selling them. Some smaller underfinanced cinemas bought them

Qube XP-E was a similiar device. And the digitAll dCine seems to be still available.

I still would go with the Oppo + some sort of external automation device. Maybe Crestron has something.

Playing ripped BluRays is usually safer, but I never experienced any issues with optimal media playing. But I always deal with them very carefully, the player is ONLY used for those few cinema presentations, I always clean discs before use, etc.

However, when I play BluRay on open-air events, I always have a WDTV with a USB-Stick with me as a backup (no, I don't consider the WDTV a useful cinema player, although with full external control it could be possible).

After all - the Oppo will also play a ripped BluRay from USB-Stick or hard disc.

- Carsten

Posted by Juan Jose Garcia Calvo (Member # 1702) on 02-07-2015, 05:04 AM:

Hello.
Thank you for your answers
The OPPO sounds good, but it's expensive. We need to economize to it.
By now, we found a Sony BDP S490 BluRay Player that can be controlled with a virtual remote control from a PC over our existing LAN.
As the projector can be controlled through his web based control system, we can make everything in remote from the BoxOffice (manually, not automaticaly), and we don't need someone to go upstairs and walk to the projection booth to start the projection.
Lights are controlled with a simple RF remote control, and I'm planning to add another RF remote control to change from NON-SYNC to Cinema sound,
By now, this system is enought for us.
I will be looking for a good opportunity to buy an OPPO player in the future.
Thanks everybody for your advices.
JuanJo

Posted by Mattias Mattsson (Member # 4308) on 03-03-2015, 11:01 AM:

Does anyone know of a current media player with similar playback features that the OPPO has?

I've had great experience with the DVICO TViX HD Slim S1. This player has been used extensivly for E-Cinema in Sweden for many years (before D-Cinema became mainstreem for art house cinemas). Unfortunately this unit is no longer for sale.

So far every current player I have tried (e.g. WD TV) does not have the ability to switch off OSD completely, no monitor output nor infite pause capability.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 03-03-2015, 12:04 PM:

What speaks against a basic OPPO? What are your key demands? OSD off and other useful things (unlimited pause, etc.) works with the Sonys, but they lack a lot of other things the Oppos offer.

The Sony S790 has OSD off, unlimited pause, Dual-HDMI out, and WiFi Remote.

- Carsten