Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Unencrypted features?

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Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 02-05-2015, 08:42 AM:

I've seen a few unencrypted feature DCPs recently - the only current one I can name is "Black or White" but I have noticed a few others. What gives?

Posted by Edgar Prass (Member # 7558) on 02-05-2015, 08:54 AM:

Around here all local (Estonian made) features come unencrypted. With foreign features it's about 50/50.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 02-05-2015, 09:07 AM:

Many independent releases come unencrypted. I've yet to see a major unencrypted Hollywood feature tough.

I guess those independent operations don't want to get stuck in KDM hell. The added overhead of KDM delivery and support probably doesn't outweigh the potential damage of someone ripping the feature.

Also, if a feature is already out on Blu-Ray, why would you even consider putting it under all kinds of artificial locks anyway? Anybody who wants a high quality copy can just rip the Blu-Ray...

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-05-2015, 11:28 AM:

quote: Marcel Birgelen
Also, if a feature is already out on Blu-Ray, why would you even consider putting it under all kinds of artificial locks anyway? Anybody who wants a high quality copy can just rip the Blu-Ray...

I've never understood this for even major studio's repertory releases. They aren't protecting a damn thing, yet they are creating additional unnecessary expense to make the KDMs and hassle for everyone involved.

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 02-05-2015, 11:48 AM:

Encryption doesn't make it impossible to copy it makes it more difficult. I don't believe most content theft happens at theaters anyway, don't think it was every a big problem in the theater that projectionist were stealing content.

That is just my opinion and it could differ from yours. I have been in the business since 1972 and I was 17 years old. I have never seen anyone make copies or allow a print to be taken for that purpose.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 02-05-2015, 01:37 PM:

Now people are just hopping on "Popcorn Time." Apparently that torrent application is sapping enough Internet bandwidth that Netflix' CEO is even concerned about it.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 02-05-2015, 02:40 PM:

I agree with Brad; it makes no sense. I understand some of the early repertory / restoration releases didn't bother with encryption but now the tide has swung the other way for the major studios. It's stupid as there is zero gain. These movies are invariably available on BD so any theatre that wanted to run an unlicensed show would just run the BD and the quality would be good enough few would even suspect. So what has encryption prevented? Nothing.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 02-05-2015, 06:33 PM:

quote: Ron Funderburg
Encryption doesn't make it impossible to copy it makes it more difficult. I don't believe most content theft happens at theaters anyway, don't think it was every a big problem in the theater that projectionist were stealing content.

I'm not aware of anyone having successfully cracked the encryption on a DCP, but that's not to say that it hasn't been done.

In the US, some arthouse and rerelease distributors (Alamo Drafthouse and Kino Lorber come to mind) appear to have a policy of not encrypting their DCPs; probably because their value to IP thieves is next to zero. Anyone who wants to watch the type of movie they distribute is probably willing to pay to do so anyway, and not know how to obtain it illegally in any case. I'm guessing that their thought process is: why incur the trouble and expense of generating and providing KDMs if the amount of revenue they would protect is lower?

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 02-06-2015, 04:36 AM:

Quite a few of the smaller distributors do the DCP handling and shipping on their own. While it's easy to create an encrypted DCP, the tools and labor to handle certificate databases for all the cinemas they serve is just to much cost and work. The larger service companies spend considerable efforts in maintaining these databases, and they want to be paid for it, so, sending out an encrypted DCP + KDM service is simply more expensive per copy/DCP shipment. For the larger studios' rep titles - what gives, they have outline agreements with the service companies, issuing unencrypted DCPs simply is no option for them, they certainly do not think about this on a per-title basis.

- Carsten

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 02-09-2015, 12:57 PM:

We've had four since re-opening in March:

Stop the Pounding Heart
Wakolda
The Beat Beneath my Feet
The 78 project Movie

That's probably about 10%, maybe slightly less, of the features we have screened in that time.

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 02-10-2015, 08:43 AM:

I'm not saying that encryption is broken. What I was meaning to say, albeit it poorly, doesn't happen at the theater by the projection or staff. It might happen in the theater with a handheld camera but most often it happens prior to leaving the care of the studio or lab.

Posted by Lindsay Morris (Member # 1430) on 02-12-2015, 05:38 PM:

So far in the shorter than normal summer season I have already screened 3 unencrypted features with the 4th coming up next week and the last movie of the season I am also guessing will be the same..NO KDM needed.
Took me a while to find just where the info is held re whether a title needs a KDM or not..."Properties" of the movie reveal all.
The first one threw me a bit when NO KDM arrived in the days prior to screening and the distributor responded to my NO KDM query as it was not needed.
The Locked and Unlocked symbol on the title once loaded into server is another clue.
In all cases these are small indie distributors who are not overly paranoid about security & wish to prune costs back. Obviously they trust exhibitors to do the right thing [Big Grin]

All these "new" things keeps the grey matter ticking over which is not a bad thing at all.
AND is one more item to note when training a newbie which I am right now. [Smile]

Posted by Gavin Lewarne (Member # 5397) on 02-13-2015, 04:33 AM:

as an arthouse we get a fair amount of unencrypted DCPs from European film companies and small distributors. However, the Hollywood big guns continue to encrypt everything.

Over our Christmas period we played E.T. for the kids shows. A film that is probably on millions of DVDs and old VHS tapes around the world, and is probably played on TV at least a few times a year. Guess what - encrypted and required a KDM and it was timed to the minute of the first play to the last play. Frankly, stupid.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 02-13-2015, 12:41 PM:

The Hollywood big guns just have a system, and stick to it for everything. Even relatively obscure and decades old studio pics come encrypted. Examples I've had recently include Lost Horizon and Harold and Maude.

Posted by Fernando Caldeira (Member # 5680) on 02-16-2015, 07:17 AM:

I haven´t seen any torrents that aren´t a bluray/dvd rip.
Have never found a DCPrip or something like that. I assume no one is riping DCPs...Even if they are they are not sharing.
So yea...Kdms are an unnecessary extra problem

Posted by Dennis Fung (Member # 8362) on 02-19-2015, 09:57 AM:

However, Big Studio always worried about DCPripping...

When I asked for DKDM for easyDCP for adding Chinese subtitles, they all say no......(Again, for festival use, even I could add KDM lock them all)