Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Recommended Coolant Change Interval in Projectors

This is topic Recommended Coolant Change Interval in Projectors in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=002211

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-09-2015, 03:37 PM:

What are the recommended coolant change out intervals in D-Cinema Projectors? There doesn't seem to be any straight answers on this from the manufacturers....

Thanks!

Mark

Posted by Nocevski Toni (Member # 5204) on 02-09-2015, 04:22 PM:

For Kinoton DCP is once in the year.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 02-09-2015, 04:24 PM:

Barco annually, Christie 4 yrs (32000 hours)
Barco also wants new coolant pumps every 4 years.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-10-2015, 06:00 AM:

NEC only wants the distilled water topped off as needed with not scheduled change out.

Personally, I think the real answer is somewhere between what Barco and what Christie wants. Barco is probably seeking a form of revenue from the coolant but also preemptively ensuring that the coolant is at the proper levels and if there is any debris in the system that you are flushing it out rather than letting it build up. You are also more apt to find an aging cooling system (hoses cracking or connectors/fittings) if you are opening it up and changing the coolant.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 02-10-2015, 02:35 PM:

how do you flush a Christie?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-10-2015, 04:07 PM:

Well, NEC doesn't use distilled water actually. Its some sort of orange colored coolant. There is a part number for it. They may just want it topped off with distilled water though and thats fine. I have yet to have any of them change. But in installing a new light engine is makes sense to me to dump the coolant, flush the system and add new. I have only done Barco's in the past and I can buy that coolant in bulk, so no big deal.

Thanks for all the input...

Mark

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 02-10-2015, 05:21 PM:

I asked NEC, and they said the coolant was "lifetime" and not needing any changing. I suppose they can get you some if it leaks out...? I have changed the prism assembly on a 2000C and didn't lose more than a few drops of coolant.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 02-10-2015, 06:13 PM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Well, NEC doesn't use distilled water actually. Its some sort of orange colored coolant.

Practically all common water based coolants are either green or orange. It's always basically just distilled water, glycol as anti-freeze and some corrosion inhibitor. The orange coolant is supposed to last longer than the green stuff and you're not supposed to mix them.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 02-10-2015, 06:29 PM:

Orange coolant is like what GM uses in their vehicle's cooling system, which is under the trade name of "Dexcool", yet prob not the same stuff designated for our digital units.

Ethylene Glycol is what is in the green coolant.
Propylene Glycol is what is in the orange coolant and doesn't corrode aluminum as the alcohol based coolant would.

-Monte

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 02-10-2015, 06:57 PM:

Yes I have changed out three NEC light engines now and we lost about one drop from each of the two feed lines. I don't know what could get in the lines but corrosion.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-11-2015, 06:32 AM:

I'm sure NEC's theory on the topping off is that if any liquid is down over time...what would have evaporated off is the water, not the glycol. If you constantly replenish with a 50/50 mix, you are in effect increasing the glycol to water ratio and thereby thickening the solution...which could cause flow problems.

Another reason is if you put your own "anti-freeze" in you may not match the chemical composition...safer to just say to top off with distilled water.

As for the others...Christie and Barco both use a "Blue" version of antifreeze. I would caution that not all glycol/water solutions are identical. One thing a projector manufacturer has to do is ensure that whatever mixture goes in has to not breakdown the components it comes in contact with. In fact, Barco got a bad batch a few years back that WOULD degrade the rubber. Remember, you are having that solution running through a light engine worth upwards of nearly $30,000 if 4K...do you really want to cheap out on the antifreeze to save a could of bucks on a coolant change?

The best stuff I've ever worked with (not on DLPs) was what Kinoton used...Tyfocoor. It too was a glycol based antifreeze but this stuff stayed very clear over time. It definitely kept things from growing in the lines.

Christie doesn't try to hide where they source their stuff. It is Jeffcool.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 02-11-2015, 10:04 AM:

The barco coolant was a 50/50 mixture of glycol and water but it did not have a corrosion inhibitor in several of their batchs and it caused a lot of grief with clogged pumps
Apparently the EU doesn't permit phosphates to be used in antifreeze due to a reaction with the high lime content in most water and there is a organic inhibitor that wasn't included in the barco stuff
We added DiPotasium Phosphate at 5%

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 02-11-2015, 10:12 AM:

Current Barco blue coolant is 1/3 ethylene glycol ("ethanediol" to them) - I don't know when they switched the concentration. This could affect some drive-in systems: 33% freezes at about -15C, 50% at -37C.
I never saw any announcement of the change. The part number is the same I believe although I only have the old bottles with 50% solution, not the shipping carton with the PN.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-11-2015, 01:09 PM:

I think California also outlawed phosphates quite some time ago.

Posted by Jason Raftery (Member # 6291) on 02-11-2015, 07:11 PM:

quote: Dave Macaulay
Current Barco blue coolant is 1/3 ethylene glycol ("ethanediol" to them) - I don't know when they switched the concentration. This could affect some drive-in systems: 33% freezes at about -15C, 50% at -37C.
I never saw any announcement of the change. The part number is the same I believe although I only have the old bottles with 50% solution, not the shipping carton with the PN.

Was this a very recent change? I've got quite a number of bottles with a packing date of 2015-01-07 and the MSDS that came with them lists an ethylene glycol content of 45-55% and dipotassium phosphate concentration of 0.5-1.5%.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 02-12-2015, 07:15 AM:

Jason: what's the part number on the carton?

Posted by Jason Raftery (Member # 6291) on 02-12-2015, 11:26 AM:

P/N B1909086K

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 02-13-2015, 02:50 PM:

I think this 33% stuff has the same part number: I haven't opened a sealed box to absolutely confirm, but we just received a large shipment and the 12 from those that I opened on site (discarded cartons before I noticed the bottle labels) are all 1/3 glycol. I have confirmed that the cartons remaining in our warehouse are B1909086K.

Note that in the installation manual for 15/20C projectors, the non-operating temperature minimum is -15C. Not much safety margin.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 02-24-2015, 06:46 AM:

Jason:
Barco seems to be telling me the coolant has always been 2:1 water/glycol. Could you email me a pic of the 1:1 bottle label? I haven't had an MSDS come with the coolant for a long time and can't find one, as I recall it is an IBM product and the MSDS shows 50:50 concentration.

Thanks,
Dave

The email link icon above should work for me. I tried yours but it is blocked, and the forum message thing is as well.

Posted by Rick Cohen (Member # 6140) on 02-23-2016, 12:05 PM:

We are changing our coolant for the first time after four full drive-in seasons. We only put about 1,000 hours on our projectors each year, since we only operate five hours a day, and are seasonal. We plan to closely inspect the condition of the coolant once we have removed it. We have never needed to "top off" since the fill line hasn't moved in four years. Also, during the off-season, we run the projector in "refill mode" every 30 days for a full hour, to keep the coolant from settling.

Posted by Marin Zorica (Member # 1716) on 02-24-2016, 03:07 AM:

Rick, what projector are you using? Did you get any recomendation to do refill mode, it think it is good idea.....but doubt that anything could happend with cooling system if projector is not working?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-24-2016, 08:24 AM:

Another advantage to using NEC's. They have a lifetime cooling system.... You never need to change the coolant. Where did everyone else go wrong?

Mark

Posted by Marin Zorica (Member # 1716) on 02-24-2016, 09:26 AM:

Barco stated that colant needs to be replaced after five years together with cooling pump.....i don't think it is necessary. But, on first they are sure it is less percent that new pump will fail after replacement, and most important, they will sell you pump with 600% more price than it is worth probably.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 02-24-2016, 10:20 AM:

In fact I cannot think of another device which needs the coolant to be replaced so often. I may understand once every few years - to make sure that it's ok mainly - but every year it seems a little overkilled.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-24-2016, 10:51 AM:

Of all the pumps I have had to replace its always been the Barco pumps that fail. I know Gord McLeod converted his DP-100's to have an external cooling loop. If I was serving very many of them I would no doubt do the same.

Mark

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 02-24-2016, 10:58 AM:

I have seen a lot of Christie coolant pumps fail on the series 2 projectors. One that was on a brand new projector with just a few hour. Happened during the install.

If anyone is running series 1 Barcos and has not changed the coolant it is about time. I have heard of some cases where the cooling system is getting clogged from the coolant coagulating.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-24-2016, 03:27 PM:

I tend to agree that once a year is a bit excessive. I tend to just follow the Maintenance "C" time...which is 365 OPERATIONAL days...which is typically longer than a year. I've had two Series 1 pumps fail or slow down enough that they had effectively failed...both were well over the 4-year mark that Barco sets...closer to 6-7 years.

The actual pump Barco uses can be had for substantially less though you'll need to source the connector and such. It is not commonly available in the USA. It is by IWAKI and is part number RD-05HCV24-12. It is an OEM part number though the overall model is a standard item for them.

Posted by Rick Cohen (Member # 6140) on 02-24-2016, 11:35 PM:

I am running a four screen seasonal drive-in with all Barco DP2K-32B. Have not needed to change out any of the pumps yet. Replacing the coolant this year for the first time. I plan to carefully observe the condition of the old coolant, to determine if it could have lasted longer. The coolant replacement cost is around $50 per projector, not including the flush & fill kit which is a ridiculous $400 expense.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-25-2016, 01:33 AM:

You can skip on the flush and fill kit. The connectors are standard that can be sourced by industrial suppliers. You don't really need the modified cap to force all of the fluid out. Just let gravity do its job.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 02-25-2016, 03:34 AM:

We all agree that maybe Barco are a little overenthusiastic on coolant change but still I'd question the $50 over a potential $20.000 replacement light engine, lost shows and labour.

Posted by Marin Zorica (Member # 1716) on 02-25-2016, 06:06 AM:

Agree with Steve, or if you want to do it "by book", grab some cap of similar can and make whole on it to fit bike pump..... [Big Grin]

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 02-25-2016, 07:19 AM:

For the price I don't think it's prudent to ignore the coolant change schedule. Maybe Barco has a good reason to want it changed? I have seen Christie 2000S coolant develop strange clots of white goop - their change period is much longer.
Draining the light engine coolant can not be done by gravity. I let gravity do most of the work: the pump side gets close to empty but the engine plumbing side retains quite a bit to blow out. Any compatible cap, or a rubber stopper, would seal the reservoir for a hand pump. You could do it using hose and connectors.
Coolant cost is around $0.01 per hour if you follow the "Smart Maintenance" schedule and change at 8000H. For low-use sites doing annual changes regardless of actual hours the $/H will be higher, but if $50-100 a year is a problem... maybe you should get a new hobby.

Posted by Marin Zorica (Member # 1716) on 02-25-2016, 04:24 PM:

Dave is right, this is professional bussines, so there should be no doubts on investments like $100 a year or so....like buying toilet papier....

But, discuss was why is important if there is coolant in system? I doubt color has any point on them, while is flowing cooling is working, and happy thing is that light engine is full of temp sensors in case any DMD block, integrator rod etc temperature goes up, alarm will switch off lamp.

Basicly i agree to change coolant on pump change period on 5 years.

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 02-25-2016, 05:13 PM:

The original specs for Christie CP2000S was for automotive coolant. They now recommend that be flushed out and the blue Jeff cool be installed like on the series 2s. Also the pink jeff cool used in some ZXs should also be replaced because of coagulation problems.