Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Christie CP4220 Alternative 4K Input

This is topic Christie CP4220 Alternative 4K Input in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=002215

Posted by Ryan Peacher (Member # 8440) on 02-14-2015, 01:11 PM:

Hello all,

We have a Christie CP4220 projector with the standard PIB Input card. I understand from Christie that we would need to upgrade to the PIB 3G card, and also order either a Dual SDI or Dual HDMI input card to go into the PIB 3G Input card.

My main question is, has anyone here successfully used a Mac Pro (either the older model, or the newest design) to input 4K alternative content? My understanding is that the only way to get 4K content is to do a quad-link setup over SDI or HDMI, and that there is currently no way to send the signal over a single HDMI connection like the newer Mac Pro can output on its internal graphics card.

We have a photograph festival coming up that wants to be able to output their content at 4K resolution. If anyone know of a sure way to do this with a certain card to install in the Mac Pro, or a way to do it with an external converter, the help would be appreciated.

I have looked into a couple of options, but they are either 6G-SDI, or are not clear on wether it can do a Quad 3G-SDI output or not. I keep running into brick walls overtime I look into this, since everyone I talk to has not tried this yet.

Thanks in advance for the help!

~Ryan Peacher
Systems Technician, Paramount Theater, Charlottesville, VA

Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 02-14-2015, 02:04 PM:

Any chance of making a DCP? No hardware changes required then.

Harold

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 02-14-2015, 06:31 PM:

You're using an IMB for day to day cinema operation? What model are you using?

The Doremi IMS1000 for example, does have 4K HDMI inputs.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-15-2015, 04:19 AM:

Please note, the SDI input route also puts frequency limitations on the input (30Hz tops). Furthermore, I know of no other projectors that will take 4K in via Alternative content unless the IMB supports it via its Alternative Content inputs. You still could run into a frequency limitation.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 02-15-2015, 04:39 AM:

If the DCP route is acceptable, I feel it's the easiest way. It won't take long to make a CPL, just make it 4-5 seconds long and press pause on the server.

What may be a problem is sRGB to XYZ conversion. I am not sure the final result will look as seen on a calibrated monitor - assuming that is what you do. Nothing major, but the conversion won't be spot on, I reckon.

I'd do a few tests to check if that is acceptable for you.

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 02-15-2015, 04:59 AM:

I looked into this for a client a while back. After consultation with Christie, the only way is via the HDMI port on a Doremi IMS1000, and even at that the firmware is best described as 'in development'.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 02-15-2015, 05:14 AM:

quote: Pete Naples
and even at that the firmware is best described as 'in development'.

Why am I not surprised?

Posted by Ryan Peacher (Member # 8440) on 02-15-2015, 02:13 PM:

Thanks everyone for the recommendations...

Our IMB server is a GDC SX-3000, which does not support 4K over HDMI.

The only way I have found to be feasible is to upgrade our PIB card to the PIB-3G card, and add the additional SDI option card to that, giving us the possibility of running a Quad-SDI input.

I have gotten in contact with a senior advisor at Apple, who also used to do digital projection at cinemas. We found an external processor that AJA makes (AJA IO4K), that will take a feed from a Thunderbolt port, and divide the 4K signal into the four quadrants that the projector wants.

He is going to have the engineers at Apple confirm the possibility of this working, and get back to me about the results.

Hopefully this will fill our need, but I will report back either way.

I wish it was as simple as making a DCP file of each picture, but this event evolves all the way up to the last minute before the presenter goes on, and the presenters need control of the forward/back advancement of the files.

Thanks again!

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 02-15-2015, 02:36 PM:

Ryan,

When I talked to Christie about doing this, they told me that the Quad SDI input option is not mapped to allow what you''re thinking of.

Been there, done that. As they say.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 02-15-2015, 04:16 PM:

Pete,
What is the quad SDI for then? The Barco board does what Ryan suggests.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 02-15-2015, 04:32 PM:

We did have a discussion on alternative 4k input a while ago.

http://www.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=001434

I guess BlackMagic Design has suitable devices as well. The question is, what budget is there to support this application, as these input cards are not cheap. Add an Aja and installation services for a 3GIC, and renting a Mirage projector will not be much more expensive.

The Christie 3GIC input board clearly supports this 4*2k quadrant mode - the question is, will a Solaria DCI projector support this mapping mode when equipped with the 3GIC board. A solaria projector is not the native home for this card type.

- Carsten

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 02-15-2015, 04:43 PM:

quote: Marco Giustini
What is the quad SDI for then? The Barco board does what Ryan suggests.

There are many ways to multiplex a high bandwidth signal, which doesn't fit over a single interconnect over multiple interconnects. Most dual, quad link implementations don't send "halves" or "quadrants" over the wire as individual signals, they just break the bitstream itself up and split it across the separate connections. That's what Dual Link SDI does and I'm pretty sure the Quad implementation will do roughly the same.

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 02-16-2015, 03:18 PM:

"The Christie 3GIC input board clearly supports this 4*2k quadrant mode - the question is, will a Solaria DCI projector support this mapping mode when equipped with the 3GIC board. A solaria projector is not the native home for this card type."

At the risk of sounding like I am repeating myself;

This is precisely what I investigated with Christie's help a year ago and was told "no".

The line from Christie was firmly that the only way to get 4K alt con in is via a third party IMB's HDMI port. Which then meant the Doremi IMS. Not sure if any of the others offer 4K now as it hasn't cropped up since.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-16-2015, 04:11 PM:

Pete...not to contradict you here BUT...the Solaria 4K can definitely run 4K via the 4SDI inputs on the proper cards. However, the restrictions are on the frame rates

BT.1769 is supported. Frame rates of 23.98, 24, 25, 29.97 and 30 Hz are it though.

You'll find similar restrictions on Barco's quad-link option as well (and I think NEC but I have not investigated that one).

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 02-16-2015, 05:08 PM:

Steve, you're not contradicting me at all. I had zero knowledge or experience on the matter so asked Christie UK. The answer was as I said, "no". I may still have the original email thread with them.

Of course this was a year ago. We're some firmware down the road now.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 02-18-2015, 05:56 AM:

The answer they gave you...even then...was wrong, providing that the information they received was the same.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 02-18-2015, 03:50 PM:

this is not against Christie - the guys there are just superb - but more in general: the toughest words to hear are "I don't know, I'll find that out and let you know". I always appreciate when someone says that.

Posted by Scott Waters (Member # 9177) on 11-30-2015, 04:06 PM:

Great forum with lots of good info. We have a 4220 trying to get alternate 4K content. Only way still with and IMS?

Posted by Scott Waters (Member # 9177) on 02-18-2016, 12:50 PM:

Anyone have any additional insight? Would it be possible to hook the AJA Kona card up to the CP4220 to make it work?

https://www.aja.com/en/products/kona-3g

Posted by Cloud Zhou (Member # 9300) on 03-31-2016, 01:01 AM:

quote: Steve Guttag
Pete...not to contradict you here BUT...the Solaria 4K can definitely run 4K via the 4SDI inputs on the proper cards. However, the restrictions are on the frame rates

BT.1769 is supported. Frame rates of 23.98, 24, 25, 29.97 and 30 Hz are it though.

You'll find similar restrictions on Barco's quad-link option as well (and I think NEC but I have not investigated that one).

Steve is correct. Quad 3G SDI is available for Christie series two 4K projectors. But the maximum resolution for alternative content is 3840x2160 and no more than 30hz. This is written in Christie manual.

My question here now is could I use dual CP4230 with quad 3G SDI inputs to show passive stereo contents? Has anyone had similar configuration and it worked?