Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Whats with the service companies?

This is topic Whats with the service companies? in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-28-2015, 06:07 PM:

Strong and Tri-State are always advertising for techs. What is the issue? It appears that they can't keep a tech because there is always an "immediate opening" help wanted ad posted for sme location. DO they run the tech's ragged? Low Pay? It wasn't typically this way when RCA was THE service company, nor is it this way at independent dealers. Many of the RCA and dealer techs were long time employees. So what's really going on here with these outfits?

Mark

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 02-28-2015, 06:29 PM:

no more projectionists -> all the workload, including the basics, falls on the service companies? Just an idea.

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 02-28-2015, 08:44 PM:

The projectionists that had tech expertise could transition quite easily and know all about the night hours and weekends. Now they are gone service Co's have to use techs not from this biz and these techs can often get easier jobs with better hours and pay in other industries.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 03-02-2015, 12:49 AM:

I was offered to become a STS tech at one time since I knew how to use a screwdriver, a DVOM and a soldering iron.

I would learn on the site, never have a life with being chased all over the country and similar.

Prob be a great job for a single guy that loves to travel, has no life and is durable, but the demands from STRONG can even get to the best of techs making them "crash and burn" down the road.

For STS, you're just a "tool in the toolbox" for them to use.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 03-02-2015, 03:28 PM:

quote: Monte L Fullmer
and a soldering iron

It was a senior engineer position then! [Smile]

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 03-02-2015, 03:38 PM:

The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron, a hardware engineer with a software patch, and a user with an idea.

[Big Grin]

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 03-02-2015, 08:35 PM:

quote: Marco Giustini
no more projectionists -> all the workload, including the basics, falls on the service companies? Just an idea.

I think that could well be part of what is going on. In a theater with a completely unstaffed booth - everything automated and playlists/ingestion done either by a manager sitting at a terminal downstairs, or from a remote center over the Internet - then even routine maintenance will have to be done by a visiting tech or contractor. Things like changing xenon bulbs, replacing air filters, replacing a hard drive in a RAID if one fails ... all the things that could be taken care of by a more experienced projectionist in the days of film-based booths cannot now necessarily be taken care of by anyone who works at the site regularly. So the big theater chains are needing more in-house traveling techs, and the service companies need more of them to look after the independents and small chains.

As Monte points out, the sort of people who would be willing to take those jobs (on the road all the time) are probably younger guys who don't have the experience and advanced training needed to deal with the sort of issues they're likely to encounter effectively and efficiently. I'm guessing it must be quite difficult to hire and retain people who both have the skills needed to cope with the troubleshooting element of the job, and the willingness to cover hundreds of miles a week and live out of a suitcase for days on end.

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 03-02-2015, 09:22 PM:

quote: Leo Enticknap
As Monte points out, the sort of people who would be willing to take those jobs (on the road all the time) are probably younger guys who don't have the experience and advanced training needed to deal with the sort of issues they're likely to encounter effectively and efficiently.

That was exactly my predicament at Christie/Callahan when I came out here to NM - just not enough tech experience or training on my part nor enough time to get the training I needed in order to quickly and comfortably get the job done. Nobody at Christie or Callahan was happy with my work out here, especially me. After six months of being in market I collapsed and threw in the towel, totally stressed and bummed out. I drove about 5500 miles a month covering 114 screens across all of NM plus El Paso, TX - I actually enjoyed the travel part; got to see a lot of NM and west TX that I probably wouldn't have otherwise. Still not sure about what I'm going to do next, but I'm pretty sure being a digital cinema tech again will not be an option.

Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 03-03-2015, 12:20 AM:

I've thought about being a tech but don't have any tech background aside from just theater management troubleshooting of equipment and reading about issues on here. That said, I found myself feeling quite proficient and helpful helping the actual tech replace the light engine a while back. Wouldn't mind the travel and seeing behind the scenes of different theaters.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 03-03-2015, 03:54 AM:

With the firm I'm working with, there is a slight hint that they would like for me to attend Barco School since I'm the only one in the area that is somewhat Barco smart and there are over 40 Barcos that would need my attention.

Now, with that thought is: here we go again.

If it just would curtail just staying in my region of these 40 Barcos, I might consider the offer and go to the school under their dime.

But, if I find out that I'm going to chase Barcos within two states and hardly ever see home again, I'll back off and let the young hot shot wannabe Barco dude where I work at have all of the glory and I'll sit back in my lounge chair and sip an ice cold Coke on the rocks.

Yet, they may kabosh the whole thing since the company does use a third party tech service and they're paying this service a pretty penny to babysit these Barcos - I just spoonfeed (bulb changes) then when they holler and change a diaper (board, rectifier or igniter) or two when they can't function on their own.

-Monte

Posted by Adam Fraser (Member # 1074) on 03-03-2015, 09:46 AM:

I have a feeling that people proficient in the things it takes to be a modern technician are being offered higher wages in other fields, like fixing medical or specialized factory equipment.

It would take 6 figures for me to be interested in having an entire state as my service area, and having to be on call pretty much 24/7. I doubt many companies pay close to that.

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 03-03-2015, 10:37 AM:

You would be lucky to get $50,000 plus a car to do service work. $60,000 tops I bet. Available 24/7 by phone etc.

It is a good way to learn being thrown the pool, sink or swim. I would bet Buck would do better than he thinks. He knows the business, the people and has the basic knowledge. The travel can be an adventure for the young, meeting new folks everywhere, making friends.

That's what I did starting in the late '70's and got a few breaks along the way. You never know what's around the corner.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 03-03-2015, 10:43 AM:

quote: Adam Fraser
I have a feeling that people proficient in the things it takes to be a modern technician are being offered higher wages in other fields, like fixing medical or specialized factory equipment.

Agreed. With digital cinema, the job is essentially very similar to servicing other bits of computer-based infrastructure. A d-cinema booth is not the only piece of industrial machinery that is effectively a glorified Linux computer plus a bunch of networking crud. In the film days, servicing 35mm projectors and the audio processors and peripherals that went with them was pretty much a unique skillset, and the people that did it were not instantly employable doing the equivalent job in another industry. Add to that the fact that many people working in the movie biz have an instinctive/emotional/call it what you will attachment to it, and the last real film generation of techs tended to dedicate their careers to it, which had the obvious impact on what this line of work pays relative to other comparable ones.

It seems to me that we've got the perfect storm arriving, albeit gradually: the last generation of projectionists and techs who began their careers in the 35mm era are either retiring or reskilling and moving on, the intermediate and advanced technical skills that a chief projectionist with 2-3 decades of experience could bring to an actual theater site are no longer permanently there at that site, and the service companies replacing that expertise are having to compete with the rest of the IT industry to hire and retain good techs.

Interesting times...

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 03-03-2015, 12:42 PM:

Nicely stated.

Posted by Steve Matz (Member # 1890) on 03-03-2015, 01:24 PM:

quote: Sam D. Chavez
You would be lucky to get $50,000 plus a car to do service work. $60,000 tops I bet. Available 24/7 by phone etc.

It is a good way to learn being thrown the pool, sink or swim. I would bet Buck would do better than he thinks. He knows the business, the people and has the basic knowledge. The travel can be an adventure for the young, meeting new folks everywhere, making friends.

Sam, you don't suppose you could get a Guy to do this for Minimum Wage! [Eek!]

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 03-03-2015, 02:50 PM:

quote:
Sam, you don't suppose you could get a Guy to do this for Minimum Wage! [Eek!] [Wink]
[Eek!] [Wink]

I bet there are some doing it right now! It's show biz! And there are no shortage of dumb guys and girls in this industry or country. That's what keeps the wages as low as they are.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-03-2015, 03:23 PM:

I can deduce two thing's from the looks of the help wanted ads...

1. it appears to be a race between two Service Companies to get the most area and accounts. Beyond that...

2. All the stuff they want one to do spells out a 100K a year job to me. So knowing that those that are intelligent enough to be able to do all the work demanded have likely already landed a good 100 K a year job in other fields. That only means substandard service because of a tech that's going to be run into the ground, likely underpaid and all too often inexperienced.

Edit: Oh and at least with one of them you also have to supply your own car. Mileage is of course paid but mileage alone doesn't begin to cover the cost of operating an adequate service vehicle. In the old days RCA Service supplied each Tech with a company car. At least in the Midwest they did.

Mark

Posted by Mike Babb (Member # 1379) on 03-04-2015, 03:13 AM:

The economics of the situation are challenging to say the least. There is downward pressure from the exhibitors to pay the least they can (of course they would want this and it's nothing new) for service and maintenance. The same thing existed for the installs in the middle and end. The service companies compete for this against one another. The agreed contracts that follow dictate certain pay structure for techs. But the demands on the techs, both workload and need for knowledge are as much or more than they have ever been. So the need for well rounded hard working customer service savvy techs is as much or more than it had ever been. But the relative pay is not. And the technology industry is much more transferrable to other industries, so people come and go, if they don't find what they like. There are, as there has always been, young people looking to get in, but the feeder system of projectionists becoming techs is broken. There just aren't the number of people gaining experience day to day that can step in and take one of these jobs. And if they do step in, its hard to train them and back them up in the field because they are called on immediately to make a full contribution because of the economics and workload. And add to that the factor that things are constantly changing and it can be hard to keep up, AND carry a backlog of knowledge going backwards. It's hardly been any time in the grand scheme of things but see how many techs out there know series 1 and also audio and 35mm, yet are current on series 2 knowledge that changes daily.

Posted by Fred Blank (Member # 1200) on 03-04-2015, 10:28 AM:

Hello Mark! I can't speak for STS but at Tri State Theatre Supply, the reason we are regularly posting is because we are in a huge growth mode at our company. In 35MM days, we had 2 techs, the digital revolution has caused us to bulge to 30 techs and we are always looking for more qualified people. (And for the record, we are one of the few independent dealers left!) This growth is on the backs of some incredibly talented people who customers recognize as relationship worthy and with whom I am so proud to associate. I hope this clears up your question, if not send me an email or call me at 901 525 8249.

Posted by Peter Hall (Member # 695) on 03-07-2015, 12:52 PM:

Leo posted
"... the sort of people who would be willing to take those jobs (on the road all the time) are probably younger guys who don't have the experience and advanced training needed to deal with the sort of issues they're likely to encounter effectively and efficiently. I'm guessing it must be quite difficult to hire and retain people who both have the skills needed to cope with the troubleshooting element of the job, and the willingness to cover hundreds of miles a week and live out of a suitcase for days on end. "..

To us the role of the service tech hasnt really changed from the film days - the day to day role is still primarily one of getting on the road and sorting problems out. The transition from running a booth (where everything can be organised, more or less predicted and your days or weeks pre planned) to the role of a tech (where you never know if you will get a 10pm call tonight requiring you to be on the road by 4am tomorrow) can be a difficult one. Also a tech role is a solitary role - not for everyone. We have some great folk with us now, they drive European cars and get paid a lot more than Sam is suggesting, but the key to their success is their passion for their job and the buzz they get from making silk purse presentations out of (often) sows ear setups. The sort of guy who thrives in the job gets excited by the chance to learn new technology, rather than feeling threatened by it. But the hours can be rough, yes - we try to work so that everyone is 50% of the time in the office, or at least local. The hard part is to provide a route forward for a field tech - not so with us but the larger companies seem to be taking on managers from outside their own tech pools, closing a door for a field engineer to pass through and leaving a 30 year old engineer wondering if he will be rising at 4am for the next 30 years.

Projection skills and familiarity with the gear is important but so is a passion for what you are doing and most importantly a desire to learn new technology. I guess the cinema business has been reasonably static (technology wise) - in the 60s xenons and long play systems, in the 70s and 80s stereo sound and automation and then in the 90s 4 flavours of Digital, however these changes have been fairly gentle. So someone relying on product knowledge was well positioned to move into engineering. But in the last 10 years, even the last 2, the technology has changed so much that a solid diagnostic approach and most importantly knowing where to get (and how to deal with) information. No amount of training, intelligence or diagnostics skills were going to tell me today that my version of "Communicator" wont talk to the newest Barcos - a tech needs to be able to ingest and process new information all the time. Interestingly here at least all of the old school engineers and all 4 service companies have adapted brilliantly to Digital - no casualties at all - a credit to them and everyone here who has made the same transition.

At 4am too.. 300 miles from home in a carpark waiting for someone to let them in...

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 03-08-2015, 03:15 PM:

Radio and TV are in the same boat. A fully qualified engineer can get car, benefits, and 100K to start in other fields. Add constant travel and you would get another 20%. On call and self starting would be more. Frankly, the numbers don't crunch.

In some states (Kentucky for example) if you are on call, you are on the clock. 50% more after 40 hours, double after 48 hours: State Law. That is why Altec Service could not replace me when I quit in 1974.

Posted by Mike Babb (Member # 1379) on 03-08-2015, 05:47 PM:

I remember once years ago at a large chain that owned a multiplex and a restaurant in the same parking lot, I heard the general manager of the restaurant was making twice what the manager of the multiplex was making. And the multiplex was blowing the restaurant away in traffic and revenue. Some industries just pay more.

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 03-08-2015, 06:20 PM:

Or, some industries pay less. It all starts with front of the house wage scales and goes from there. There's a never ending supply of kids who want to work in movies and then hopefully go on to real careers elsewhere.

Techs are never really fully valued in the US cinema culture, only when there is real trouble.

"They'll never forgive you for carrying a screwdriver" is an axiom with some truth.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 03-09-2015, 08:54 PM:

I had a meeting with my manager on this very topic - on how I'm a great asset to the location and valuable also.

Granted, he was sincere that he fully admits that he's all left thumbs when it comes to technical and mechanical stuff where he knows that I'm good with a screwdriver and pliers...and if I wasn't there, the complex would definitely implode on itself.

Then, when the "white collar" attribute comes out into play this quote from Sam holds definitely true:

quote: Sam D. Chavez
"They'll never forgive you for carrying a screwdriver" is an axiom with some truth.

Interesting that you get praised, then get hosed shortly afterwards.

I've seen techs, esp. STS techs, really put their heart and soul in their craft only to be crapped on by the suits that haven't the foggiest on what they are doing, but think they got the power to tell somewhat what to do and get paid the big bucks in doing so.

Thing the suits needs to realize that it was the blue collar is what built this country and industry-we knew how to use the screwdriver and pliers.

Let's see what happens when you give a suit a screwdriver and have him assemble something with it. Be a hoot of a joyride to watch.

-Monte

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 03-09-2015, 09:37 PM:

The important phrase here is "haven't the foggiest what they are doing".

I've worked for organizations ranging in size from two employees to 20,000, in the theater business and a couple of others. In the larger ones, a general, though not absolute rule of thumb (there are a minority of honorable exceptions) is the principle of promoting people out of trouble.

If you are working on the shop floor and incompetent, your incompetence will cause very real problems, very quickly. If you are in middle management, it won't - those problems will be more subtle, take longer to materialize and allow the perpetrator plausible deniability (it wasn't my decisions that caused this ... out of my control ... things done before my time ... etc. etc.).

For that reason, I've seen, time and time again, situations where people who lack the craft skills to do a hands-on job, or can only do it to a low standard, but are good at playing institutional politics and schmoozing, getting moved up. Upper management considers the move a success: after all, the complaints from distributors that their prints are getting scratched, or the complaints from students that they can't teach to save their life, or complaints from insurers that they keep crashing their trucks, stop. In the short term, everyone is happy.

In fact the problem is getting worse, because once these incompetents have management authority over the people who do know what they are doing, they make bad decisions, alienate the staff the business needs to nurture ... you know the rest. But a middle manager who alienates someone he's managing such that the employee is not willing to go the extra mile in a unique situation once in a while is a much more subtle and difficult-to-spot issue than a shop floor worker who screws up a show and you have to give out 600 refunds. So they get away with it.

Conversely, the people who are very good at doing the actual job tend to remain on the shop floor, because that's where they're needed and the incompetents in middle management (keep in mind how most of them got there) feel threatened by them.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 03-09-2015, 11:52 PM:

In sort: the "Blame Game!"

quote: Leo Enticknap
Conversely, the people who are very good at doing the actual job tend to remain on the shop floor, because that's where they're needed and the incompetents in middle management (keep in mind how most of them got there) feel threatened by them.

And, for the last dozen years or so, I know this is case with the majority of mid-uppers that have moved up dishonestly, that they feel threatened by my knowledge of both technical and operational.

Yet, I'm not in any way trying to cause issues of workforce imbalances.

Why I feel that I get "pushed in the corner on the shop floor" - to remain there. And agree: where I'm needed and NOT in their 'sandbox.'

Yet, I have changed my attitude on all of this: I like my little corner for I don't want to be, or part in their little 'sandbox' world - better them than me along with 'staying out of radar range.'

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 03-10-2015, 12:16 PM:

The last two posts are interesting albeit a little like crying in your beer.

Leo's points are familiar complaints about management. The weird thing is that a lot of half hearted techs never really wanted to be in the shop in the first place and are sort of posing and waiting for someone to notice them looking above the fray while others are doing all the actual work. It's funny and pathetic all at once.

Real techs enjoy the actual work and the learning process involved and make a life out of it. The best ones open their own shops so they don't have to eat crap from above and only from the actual customer.

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 03-10-2015, 12:59 PM:

quote: Monte L Fullmer
Let's see what happens when you give a suit a screwdriver and have him assemble something with it. Be a hoot of a joyride to watch.

I used to volunteer in a non-profit law office. We had a very important rule: Never let the lawyers change the toner in the copy machine [evil]

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-10-2015, 01:54 PM:

I fully agree with what Sam said here...

"Real techs enjoy the actual work and the learning process involved and make a life out of it. The best ones open their own shops so they don't have to eat crap from above and only from the actual customer."

Mark

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 03-10-2015, 03:27 PM:

Peter Principle

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 03-10-2015, 06:33 PM:

Wonderful post, Frank !

Best be on the bottom of the food chain then.