Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Duel Sets of Keys

This is topic Duel Sets of Keys in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 03-18-2015, 09:15 AM:

We received our feature from Technicolor yesterday. And we also received CCAP and OCAP Keys from them. Nothing unusual there.

This morning we received CCAP/OCAP keys for the same feature from Deluxe.

This surprised Tech, who said to use the keys they sent, which I will since I won't have time to experiment. What I'd like to know is:
1) Does this happen often
2) Can it cause problems or conflicts, or will the keys just work or not?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-18-2015, 10:03 AM:

What feature? Did you receive a hard drive or was this a satellite delivery? If so what satellite? DCDC? Technicolor Thingest?

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 03-18-2015, 10:13 AM:

Do a cmp on the two sets of files. Set the -b flag to see what the differences, if any, are. I'd do this on another computer before loading any of the keys.

Fail that, load the keys you are "supposed" to use first. Load the others only if the first doesn't work.

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 03-18-2015, 10:18 AM:

I had something like this happen for a special screening last year.

In my case, I discovered the 2nd set of keys in my inbox right after I
had ingested the first ones.

When I attempted to ingest the 2nd set, the serverthingy (Dolby) said
that those keys were already 'existing' and didn't process the 2nd set.

So, I'm ASSUMING that even though they came from a different
sources, if the CPL's, UUID's, Feature Versions, Validity Dates, etc
match- - it probably doesn't make a difference where it came from.

I know I've also gotten keys where the validity times were different.
Because most of what I do are special screenings, my keys are usually
only good for less than 24hrs. Sometimes I've only got a 2 or 4hr window!

On one occasion, I received 2 keys within a several minutes of each
other and the only difference I could see was that one expired two
hours later than the first one.

The system (Dolby) ingestified both, and simply extended the expiration
period by two hours.

(Some studios or distributors seem to have different departments that
issue KDM's for special screenings separately from the theatrical ones.
I think sometimes there's some overlap or mis-communication & I get
KDMs from both. They're usually identical, just from different sources)

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 03-18-2015, 11:15 AM:

It was a hard drive from Technicolor of Inherent Vice. It's ingesting now, haven't ingested any keys.

Both sets activate tomorrow at midnight and are valid for the same dates.

The Technicolor guy did say sometimes they do screening keys and Deluxe does feature run keys and vice-versa, but he hadn't heard of this. I haven't talked to Deluxe. Technicolor said to use their key since it was their hard drive and so should match their coding.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 03-18-2015, 11:16 AM:

Note: KDMs carry an issue date, e.g.

<IssueDate>2015-03-17T13:05:15+00:00</IssueDate>

Official DCI/SMPTE policy is that the key issued latest will take over. We had it quite a few times that we received two KDMs with different time windows for the same feature. When you ingest both, you won't have a playout window framed by both keys added together, but only that of the key issued later. We recently received a key for 'Magic in the Moonlight' with a playout window:

--- Key Start: 2015-03-04T18:00:00 ---
--- Key Stop: 2015-04-02T23:59:00 ---

two weeks later, we received a second KDM:

--- Key Start: 2015-03-05T00:00:00 ---
--- Key Stop: 2015-03-12T23:59:00 ---

If we'd ingested both keys, we would only have been permitted to play from 2015-03-05 to 2015-03-12 - the playout windows are NOT added! If for some reason you want to benefit from an earlier window start, you have to ingest that KDM first, and only ingest the second KDM after the first one has expired.

It didn't make a difference for us, so we didn't bother to ask why this happened. It wasn't the first time, but so far our effective booking date was always within the window of both KDMs.

If you received two KDMs from two different issuers, you won't have trouble ingesting both, but again, the KDM issued latest will take over the moment you ingest it. That is, per DCI/SMPTE specs. Don't know wether all servers handle this strictly in all software releases.

It is possible that, even coming from different senders, that both KDMs are 100% identical - in that case the server will simply not ingest the second as mentioned above. If the second KDM have actually been created for a different encrypted version of the same feature made by a different mastering facility, the server will simply consider this KDM as one for a completely different movie. It will ingest, but never be used and usually be purged automatically after a while. I don't think any of these scenarios could actually bring harm.

- Carsten

Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 03-18-2015, 08:19 PM:

I have encountered both Deluxe and Technicolor distributing the same feature. Once we got a drive for some movie which title I cannot recall from Deluxe. However the movie is booked at our competitor. I know the manager. I touch base. "I think we have your drive." I call Deluxe to get permission to release the drive to him. Deluxe calls back. "Send that drive back to us. Your competitor is getting their drive from Technicolor."
I did what they told me... [Confused]