Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Suggestion for a 4 x 8 AES patchbay for our new cinema room

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Posted by Anhtu Vu (Member # 7689) on 05-18-2015, 06:44 PM:

Hi all,

I'm upgrading one of our cinema room. It will be used for blockbuster and film festival. I need to screen the following format:
- DCP
- HDcam
- Computer files
- Bluray

All the mentioned formats will be screened in 5.1 and or 7.1. I looked at all existing Cinema processor and none offers 32 inputs. My option would be using some sort of AES patch bay. In this case all machines will be plugged into the patch bay and from there into the cinema processor...something like a CP750. Any suggestions for a reliable patch bay ??? Thx

Posted by Harold Hallikainen (Member # 5405) on 05-18-2015, 08:42 PM:

We use a standard Ethernet patch bay with female RJ45 connectors on both sides of the rack panel. Short CAT5 patch cords route between several media blocks and sound processors. Two cables carries 16 channels.

Harold

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 05-18-2015, 09:20 PM:

Why would you need so many AES channels if only a fraction of these devices actually output audio through AES?

- Carsten

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-18-2015, 09:34 PM:

Wouldn't a standard video patch bay work for 75-ohm AES? I know that a regular composite video distribution amplifier will work fine for AES signals, so I can't imagine why a video patch bay would not. This assumes, of course, that you don't need to actually re-arrange the pairs.

Not sure how much equipment you actually have, but you should consider a DMA8+, which will give you Dolby-E capability for HDCAM tapes (since you mention 5.1) and extra inputs.

With a CP750, you could do this:

D-cinema -> CP750 AES input
Blu-Ray -> analog 6-channel "film" input on DMA8+
computer -> AES input on DMA8+ and/or analog non-sync input on CP750
HDCAM -> AES input on DMA8+

Also, look at the Datasat AP20, which gives you more inputs and HDMI right on the box. It also has an optional film card. It does not do Dolby E, though.

Posted by Anhtu Vu (Member # 7689) on 05-19-2015, 01:31 AM:

I already checked the Datasat, DMA8+ and CP750…none of them gives me all the inputs i need.

I want a minimum of 4 x 5.1 discrete:
- DCP (8 channels AES for discrete 5.1/7.1)
- HDcam (6 channels AES for discrete 5.1, we rarely get DolbyE)
- Computer server (8 channels AES or analog for discrete 5.1/7.1)
- Bluray (8 Channels analog for discrete 5.1/7.1)
- Digibeta (2 channel AES)

Anyways, i found the solution in the QSC Qsys core 250i. It has 8 card slots which let you do 64 channels of discrete I/O between inputs and outputs.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 05-19-2015, 06:49 AM:

Wow, that's not actually what I'd call a patchbay. How much will it cost you including the necessary IO cards? You could probably leave away the CP750 then.

- Carsten

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-19-2015, 08:15 AM:

How are you doing discrete 5.1 with HDCAM? Or are you doing HDCAM SR?

Posted by Anhtu Vu (Member # 7689) on 05-19-2015, 09:57 AM:

We use the SRW5800/2 HDcam SR.

I also mix for broadcast and 99% of the deliverables are on HDcam SR (5.1 on tracks 1-6 and LtRt or LoRo on 7and 8) or MXF/Mov files with the same track layback as above.

The new room will be set up as 5.1/7.1 but pre-wired for Atmos/Aurora 3D.

Posted by David Buckley (Member # 2600) on 05-19-2015, 05:12 PM:

quote: Carsten Kurz
Wow, that's not actually what I'd call a patchbay

Nor me. What OP is looking for is an AES switcher (or matrix switcher), widely used by the broadcast folks, and they are, as are most things broadcast, eye-wateringly expensive. That QSC box is probably a "value proposition" in this area...

Posted by Anhtu Vu (Member # 7689) on 05-20-2015, 06:15 PM:

It's not that bad…the QSC Qsys Core 260i is about $5200. Optional cards range anywhere between $500 to $1200.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 05-21-2015, 12:13 AM:

I'm not really sure what you want to achieve with that Q-Sys system. Isn't it better to go shopping for a 16x4 AES/EBU matrix switcher that allows for some kind of remote control via Ethernet or Serial?

I'm wondering what Blu-Ray playback solution you have in mind that offers discrete 5.1 or 7.1 AES/EBU outputs.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 05-21-2015, 05:32 AM:

Well, if they have the money, why not? I'd just leave away the CP750 in that case, since the Qsys seems to have all that functionality anyway.

Just wondering why in such an environment there is no provision for HDMI? Desktop and Notebook graphics cards will happily output 8ch LPCM at no additional cost, as do ALL current BluRay-Players. The AP20 has 16ch digital IO + analog + various other sources like S/P-DIF, TOSLINK, 4*HDMI.

I think it will do the same, and it certainly has the better user interface. The Qsys will probably shine for very unusual applications, e.g. mixing different sources, e.g. having an input source plus a commentary microphone at the same time. The AP20 has such functionality too, but only in limited combinations, while the Qsys will probably offer this limitless. At a price, of course.

Maybe it offers customizable tablet user interfaces, these become more and more common for these fully configurable audio workhorses.

- Carsten

Posted by Anhtu Vu (Member # 7689) on 05-21-2015, 07:23 AM:

Ideally i want everything in one box instead of a processor/matrix combo but most important of all, the Qsys sounded better than anything Dolby and Datasat i've tested.

The Oppo blu ray player has 7.1 analog output. The main reason for using its analog output (instead of optical and or HDMI) is decoding compatibility/reliability. I have the CP650/DMA8+ and Datasat installed in our other rooms. The Datasat's DTS Master Audio decoding was not compatible with some of the bluray i tested. The Oppo's DTS/Dolby decoder works with every european/north american blurray disc i throw at it. Oh yeah, most cinema processor don't support Dolby True HD…another reason for letting the Oppo do all the decoding!!!!

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 05-22-2015, 03:07 AM:

quote: Carsten Kurz
Well, if they have the money, why not? I'd just leave away the CP750 in that case, since the Qsys seems to have all that functionality anyway.

If money is not a problem, then also throw in a bunch of CXD-Q Network Amps, you can even save a few bucks on output cards [Wink]

.

If everything is already present and available on AES/EBU and the only desire is to switch sources according to a few predefined presets, the Matrix Switcher would probably be the most logical choice.

Also, I didn't really understand the need for the Q-Sys Core in combination with a cinema processor like the CP-750.

I'm not able to find the Q-Sys Core 260i, but the 250i is listed, I guess that would be the model of choice?

quote: Anhtu Vu
Ideally i want everything in one box instead of a processor/matrix combo but most important of all, the Qsys sounded better than anything Dolby and Datasat i've tested.

Like Carsten already mentioned, it would just work, but it will be a lot of work to configure and calibrate correctly, since this isn't your average cinema processor. Like I mentioned before, I also don't see any purpose for the CP-750 in this setup. If you have somebody that can assist you or if you're into a little experimenting and do have the time, it sounds like a great thing to do, at least to me. [Wink]

If not, I'd go for a more off-the shelf solution, just like the AP20, which should be capable of doing everything you need, although not that fancy and configurable.