Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Master Image: Automateable?

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Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 05-23-2015, 09:07 AM:

I was sort of 'visiting' a booth at another theater the other day.

The setup is basically an NEC Projector, GDC Server & TMS system, and
Master Image 3D system. (The "spinning wheel" type)

They were running a "mixed" 3D and non-3D schedule that day and while I
was up in the booth, a show started to play, automatically, and one of the
'floor staff' ran upstairs and had to push the buttons on the Master Imagethingy
to get it to elevate the 3D wheel into position and start spinning.

In answer to my questions, she said they always have to operate the Master
Image machine manually, and confessed that sometimes they forget and only
remember when customers come out complaining that their 3D glasses
"aren't working", or the image "looks funny" [Roll Eyes]

I tried to find out more, but of course NOBODY at the theater has any friggin'
idea of how things actually work (which is typical of theater staffs these days)
so I wasn't able to find out much.

SO MY QUESTION, SINCE I'M NOT ALL THAT FAMILIAR WITH MASTER IMAGE IS THIS:
> Isn't there a way to totally automate the Master Image so that it raises
and lowers itself and starts automatically for 3D and non 3D shows?

The only connection I saw to the Master Image was the "sync" cable going to
the NEC Projector. I didn't see any LAN connection & I don't know enuf about
Master Imagestuff to even know if it has one.

But isn't there a way to add the Master Image as a "device" in the GDC
server and then create a cue that would totally automate the Master Image?

I know there's also an "automation interface" with relays to operate the
dimmer, curtain, etc, but I didn't note what type it was.

But if the Master Image machine needs a contact closure to trigger
3D/Non-3D, I'm sure they could pull one out of there.

It they forget to elevate it for 3D shows, I can pretty much guess with some
amount of assurance that they forget to lower the damn thing for 2D shows too.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-23-2015, 11:17 AM:

Not sure this is 100% accurate but it should get you in the ballpark. Having to rely on that old memory thing here.

Hold MENU button down until you enter the menu.
Go to SYNC SOURCE and select GPIO by pressing ENTER.
Go to AUTOMATION and select SYNC PULSE by pressing ENTER.
Make sure 72Hz is set to ON and all other refresh rates are set to OFF.
Keep pressing ENTER until SAVE is highlighted, then hold ENTER button down to save.

It should then engage when a projector 3D macro/channel is selected and disengage otherwise. Basically the projector now controls it.

You can set the center of the wheel by going to PFD HOME in the menu, manually spin the wheel so the notch is pointing upward, then press RUN to calibrate.

You can also set the left vs. right (in/out) direction in the 3D POSITION setting in the menu.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 05-23-2015, 12:13 PM:

quote: Jim Cassedy
They were running a "mixed" 3D and non-3D schedule that day and while I
was up in the booth, a show started to play, automatically, and one of the
'floor staff' ran upstairs and had to push the buttons on the Master Imagethingy
to get it to elevate the 3D wheel into position and start spinning.

More professional installers @work [Frown]

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 05-23-2015, 12:18 PM:

Depends, the first gen MasterImage units you would have to hack or modify to get an automation input. You can upgrade them to use the same controls as the current but it's EXPENSIVE.

Posted by Jason Whyte (Member # 1433) on 05-23-2015, 01:02 PM:

quote: Jim Cassedy
It they forget to elevate it for 3D shows, I can pretty much guess with some amount of assurance that they forget to lower the damn thing for 2D shows too.

Or like most other cinemas with this system, they'd probably just leave it on all the time because they think guests "won't notice" the filter is left on for 2D shows.

I would also love to get more info on automated sliders for Real D filters too. Most cinemas are STILL leaving the Real D lens over the projector for 2D screenings and I'm hoping a cheap solution can surface...

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 05-23-2015, 01:02 PM:

Tho original black units are, as Pete says, not friendly to automation without a hefty cash injection.
The newer "Clarity" models have assorted automation options. Brad's suggestion for sync pulse automation is the easiest. You should have a decent black section before content so the wheel is up and at speed by the time an image is on screen.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 05-23-2015, 01:46 PM:

I know nothing about these gadgets, but if there is a button to push that makes the unit engage and disengage, couldn't you just attach a relay to that button's contacts and hook it up to something like a jnior for automation?

If you already have the jnior anyway, all you need is a relay and a few feet of wire.

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 05-23-2015, 01:58 PM:

To add to what Frank just said, software version 1.3 and higher if one holds the up or down button for 5 seconds or more and releases the head will move up or down to the limit automatically. The up limit is adjustable so it stops in the proper position. If you contact Masterimage they will give you chip with the latest software.

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 05-23-2015, 02:34 PM:

Thanks Stephen- - I'm pretty sure their unit goes to the up & down limit stops
'automatically' as long as someone actually remembers to go up to the booth
and manually push the button.

I don't usually work at this venue, but Ive been hired to do a special screening
there early next week, ("San Andreas"- for a bunch of emergency response officials!)
so I'll have a chance to take another look at it then.

I sort of figured, since I didn't see any LAN cable running to it, that it ought to
be able to at least recognize the 3D sync pulses from the projector and put itself
into the '3D Mode' as Brad described in his reply.

I'll take another look at it when I'm there on Tuesday.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 05-23-2015, 02:52 PM:

The initial units actually had relays switching the motors, activated by the buttons, and it was relatively easy to use some GPO signals to automate them. Why MI didn't implement this right from the start is a mystery to me.

Jason: There are a couple of Z-Screen movers on the market. Don't know who installs these for the US, but for europe there is e.g.

http://www.amptown-system.com/fileadmin/user_upload/Amtown_System_Company_MOGUL.pdf

- Carsten

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 05-23-2015, 03:22 PM:

I don't know if this holds for newer M/I units, as mine are about 5 years old. On the mechanism which carries the filter disc up and down, there are physical switches which you move to set the limit for the travel of the wheel.

The unit does have to be manually raised and lowered. It does not have the ability to be automated without adding a new board of some sort. With the decline of 3D, it's not worth the cost for something which is primarily a matter of convenience.

When it comes to raising and lowing the wheel, you have to press an hold the up or down button for about 10 seconds, then it will travel the remainder of the range on it's own. We train senior staff to raise and lower the wheel. We also have a game plan we keep in the snack bar to keep track of masking changes and 2D/3D switches. I train all of my staff to change masking, as well as understand the difference between flat and scope. I don't see an issue with having crew members handle these chores as long as they are trained and held accountable.

Posted by Joris Springer (Member # 4175) on 05-23-2015, 05:29 PM:

We have it in the theater where I work connected to a JNIOR unit actually, I don't know from the top of my head because right now I have two days off but if you want I can have a look on how it is connected on my monday evening shift.

Because in the theater where I work it is automated and it is the spinning wheel version of the Master Image system as well.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 05-23-2015, 06:02 PM:

Moving Image Technologies has their XL mover for the RealD XL system (works for anamorphic lenses too).

I've only worked with some of the older (not oldest) generation Master Image...and it was crudely automatable via contact closure.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-25-2015, 09:53 AM:

I automated one just for trials once. It is so stinking slow going up and down that it was more trouble than it was worth. They ended up just sliding it in and out from in front of the projector.

Mark