Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Moving color wheel from DP-3000 to 32B

This is topic Moving color wheel from DP-3000 to 32B in forum Digital Cinema Forum at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Martin Murray (Member # 162) on 06-30-2015, 02:12 AM:

Are the mounting brackets the same on a DP-3000 and a 32B for a Dolby color wheel? i want to move my 3D into my 32B. Thanks in advance.

Posted by Magnus Eriksson (Member # 6085) on 06-30-2015, 02:24 AM:

No, they are totally different [Frown]

/M.E.

Posted by Martin Murray (Member # 162) on 06-30-2015, 03:04 AM:

just the bracket or the entire assembly?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-30-2015, 03:40 AM:

If I'm not mistaken, the DP3000 used the Dolby supplied colorwheel/bracket assembly. The DPxK-32B uses Barco's colorwheel assembly that mounts directly to the integration rod assembly and also forms the water cooled heat sink for it.

There would be no place to mount the Dolby style bracket in the DPxK-32B

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 06-30-2015, 05:03 PM:

Steve has it, there is no commercially available bracket for the large Dolby 3D wheel for any of the current Barco projectors. It's the Barco/Dolby combination unit or nothing.

That's not to say you couldn't design and manufacture something to use that older wheel. It just doesn't exist as a product.

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 06-30-2015, 08:28 PM:

Malco Theatres made brackets to fit Christie wheels and DFC controllers into Barco projectors. B series I believe.

The reason is they wanted to do dedicated, left eye and right eye projectors.

Barco does not sell Left eye or Right eye wheels so it was the only way.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 07-01-2015, 03:15 AM:

In fact I saw those brackets on a dual projector setup

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 07-01-2015, 03:36 AM:

The Barco/Dolby approved dual projector 3D setup uses "single-color" wheels that are still turning. As I understood it, it's to limit the burn-in on the color filter.

I'm wondering how this works in such a "hack job", where you keep the disc fixed. Aren't those discs wearing out pretty soon?

Posted by Martin Murray (Member # 162) on 07-01-2015, 11:55 AM:

So does anyone have a colorwheel for a 32b?

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 07-02-2015, 04:59 PM:

Haven't you asked your local Barco distributor/integrator? The 32B is still a recent machine and those parts should be available from Barco. Especially if your machine is still under warranty or extended service contract, I'd ask your integrator first.

Posted by Martin Murray (Member # 162) on 07-02-2015, 06:31 PM:

Lol if only it was that easy to get Barco parts. I think I'm going to put in a Christie and be done with it. Much easier to deal with and get parts for. Worst mistake I ever made was converting from Christie to Barco to begin with, I do regret it daily.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 07-02-2015, 08:28 PM:

I have the exact opposite opinion.

Posted by Martin Murray (Member # 162) on 07-02-2015, 09:10 PM:

Christie has always gone over and beyond what I would expect and way fewer breakdowns, barco, not so much.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 07-03-2015, 10:30 AM:

I've had zero problems getting parts for Barco and they have not needed many. Barco maintains a 24/7 support and nearly that for parts supply. If you are willing to pay for same-day freight, they'll get it to you. If you are under warranty (original or extended), parts ship standard-overnight, freight included. Christie tends to close up shop Friday evening and doesn't open until Monday...unless you are on their NOC, it would seem.

So what are all of these breakdowns you are having with the Barco? I have no DP3000s that I've ever serviced so I can't comment on their reliability. The DP100 (its predecessor) definitely has had a mixed bag of reliability and thankfully the last one is out of our service, its predecessor, the DP50 we serviced for 11-years with near zero problems. The DP2000s have been relatively problem free (a couple of bad power supplies and I think one cinema controller).

Now you'll get no argument from me about the old Christie CP2000 being a tank. I've had something like one LVPS go flaky and maybe an environment board. But the other series 1 Christie's are problematic. The LVPS for the ZX and M will die...sooner or later. The PCM modules are also a point of failure for them.

But for series 2s...I'd give Barco the edge but both are pretty reliable. Barco is BY FAR the easiest to service though.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 07-03-2015, 04:55 PM:

quote: Martin Murray
Lol if only it was that easy to get Barco parts. I think I'm going to put in a Christie and be done with it. Much easier to deal with and get parts for. Worst mistake I ever made was converting from Christie to Barco to begin with, I do regret it daily.

I can't speak for your location, maybe Barco's service just plainly sucks over there, although Steve doesn't seem to have any problems. My experience is more like Steve's. As long as a projector isn't EoL*, it's usually no problem to get parts for it. They might not be cheap and if you need them pronto, the shipping costs also adds to it, but they are generally available and usually ship within a few days.

It seems to me you had a string of bad luck with your Barco projectors, but if part availability is a problem, I suppose it's more to blame on your supplier or integrator than on Barco itself.

Also, for equipment on Priority Care, they usually provide replacement hardware either the same or at least the next day. You also can call them 24/7. At least that's what they offer over here. It's expensive, but it works.

As for this particular case, I'm certain if you call Barco and ask for the appropriate color wheel for your 32B, they will come up with a part number and a bunch of distributors that can provide it for you, if yours cannot.

* I once bought a spare part for a CRT projector that was about 10 years EoL directly from them, so even if it's EoL, it doesn't automatically mean they don't want to help you, although in this case, I was just plain lucky.

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 07-03-2015, 05:40 PM:

If this is the same Murray I know, he buys a lot of goods used and cheap and fixes them up. He may not be a Barco dealer FWIW.

Posted by Martin Murray (Member # 162) on 07-04-2015, 05:06 AM:

Sam, used, yes, cheap not always. Lol

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 07-04-2015, 08:21 AM:

So, essentially you're blaming Barco for the fact that's it rather hard to shop for parts on Ebay and other aftermarkets? I'm not so sure this market is so livid for Christie, NEC or Sony either...

Posted by Martin Murray (Member # 162) on 07-04-2015, 03:31 PM:

No Marcel, you are incorrect on your assumption. All of my dp3000'stuff were purchased directly from Terri at barco. There have been many failures through the years of different boards, coolant pumps, and power supplies. Problems that simply do not exist with the christies. Over the years there have been several delays getting answers about problems or parts ordered for various reasons through different dealers, these same dealers also supplies Christie parts to me with none of the same issues. When the barcos are running they are fine, it's the unexpected lost shows that I dislike. I know some will say different but this has been my experience. Oh and as far as shopping ebay, it's a wonderful tool for obsolete parts for equipment that the oem no longer supplies.

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 07-04-2015, 03:40 PM:

I have lost plenty of Christie coolant pumps. 3 out of 6 projectors over 6 years. At another site pump acted erratic withing the first hour of operation. Lost a few boards as well.

They all have there ups and downs. Some of the early series 1s are a little temperamental and showing their age.

Posted by Martin Murray (Member # 162) on 07-04-2015, 03:51 PM:

That is true!

Posted by Rosario Drago (Member # 8881) on 07-06-2015, 02:16 PM:

hi, I have created a mounting bracket for the wheel dolby 3d for barco series B ( 19-23-32 ) , which fits simply in the slot on the cooling block , without changing anything on the projector . We installed some and are fully functional

Posted by Magnus Eriksson (Member # 6085) on 07-06-2015, 02:40 PM:

Interesting. Any pictures?
Do you use a DFC100?
/M.E.

Posted by Rosario Drago (Member # 8881) on 07-06-2015, 02:56 PM:

Yes, the complete kit with DFC100. I can send you some pictures by email.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 07-06-2015, 03:10 PM:

out of curiosity, why not just ordering the Barco kit?

Posted by Rosario Drago (Member # 8881) on 07-06-2015, 03:18 PM:

We used the Kit already installed on series-1

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 07-06-2015, 09:19 PM:

"out of curiosity, why not just ordering the Barco kit? "
If you have a S1 colorwheel you're not using, it saves several thousand dollars to use that and not buy the DP32B assembly.

DP3000 projectors have caused me a fair bit of grief. I agree the big old CP2000 Christies are tanks, the only problem I would call endemic is the failing coolant connectors.
Parts supply for us has been excellent from Barco. Very rarely something needs to come from Belgium - almost all parts are stocked in N. America.
Both Christie and Barco have supported their S1 projectors with no parts or support problems so far. Christie is a bit unreachable nights/weekends unless you have a NOC contract... and their NOC is separate from their tech support. Barco has 24/7 support, their NOC projector support line gets you the same guys you get by calling tech support.
Between a CP2230/4230 and a 32B, I would take the 32B in a heartbeat.
On the used market though... between a DP3000 and CP2000S, the Christie is a better bet. And it has wheels.

Posted by Sam D. Chavez (Member # 1841) on 07-07-2015, 12:51 AM:

What Dave said.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 07-07-2015, 01:42 AM:

What Dave said though I have not had the failing coolant connectors on any yet (though I'll be looking even closer on the next PM visits...have one that is 11-years old too). I look reasonably close since Barco had an Info-T on their series 1 connectors (white plastic that develop cracks...also haven't had to change any yet).

It would be interesting to see your pictures of the Dolby kit in a B series. I can see advantages and disadvantages to doing that...clear advantages if you already own the kit! You also get a semi-automatic system with the Dolby kit if you are doing the HFR stuff. With the Barco system, you HAVE to have separate macros to spin the Barco 3D system at different frame rate/flash rate...the DFC100 merely responds to the frequency and switches mode/timings.

Posted by Magnus Eriksson (Member # 6085) on 07-07-2015, 12:29 PM:

@Rosario: Yes, please send some pictures (or make them available here). That would be interesting to see.
/M.E.

Posted by Rosario Drago (Member # 8881) on 07-07-2015, 03:06 PM:

I can send you some pictures by email.

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 07-07-2015, 04:15 PM:

Steve: I've had several of the CP2000 hose disconnects fail. The bulkhead mounted ones through the bottom of the upper chassis. On disconnect, the connector's insides shoot out and down to get lost amongst the stuff below. Without a replacement, there's a tiny spring and plunger you have to find and fit back in or you have zero coolant flow. These parts are the valve in that end but also push open the valve in the hose end.
Possibly UV attacking the guts of the connector?

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 07-08-2015, 03:23 PM:

Dave, ditto.

I found a source of the connectors here on the UK. Christie only supply the complete cooling system here. Circa £500

CPC, the manufacturer of the connectors don't rate that type under UV, the type used in series 2 are OK though.

I have never seen them fail on a Barco or Kinoton, I guess the sealed LE keeps the worst of the UV to itself.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 07-08-2015, 04:11 PM:

Are they the same CPC connectors as used in the Barco series 1s? I honestly don't recall the specific connectors Christie uses. We have the ones for the Barco (both male/female) in both series 1 and series 2 style. The series 2 connectors are definitely the way to go, if possible. They are better on several fronts.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 07-08-2015, 05:23 PM:

In theory the UV is removed just after the lamphouse. There shouldn't be any UV in the light engine. At least not a great amount.

Posted by Pete Naples (Member # 761) on 07-09-2015, 03:58 PM:

Steve, yes.

Marco, in theory perhaps. But one only has to look at any paintwork or wiring in the LE compartment after a few years to see that theory and practice do not match.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-10-2015, 03:21 PM:

The UV band pass filters actually fade at a much higher rate than all the other filters in a D-Cinema projector. You probably need to replace them.... Especially that very first one.

Mark

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 07-10-2015, 05:06 PM:

That's interesting.
Wouldn't that be listed on the,say, D service schedule?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 07-11-2015, 05:25 PM:

You guys don't remember any of that from film days? IR bandpass filters in ORC lampjopuses had to be replaced every several years. You could actually see the circle where the light from the lamp went through and faded them. Not many people actually did replace them, but digital isn't going to be any different in that regard and it may be more critical to longevity of the light engine... In digital after 5 or 6 years I can see the same thing about to occur.

Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 07-11-2015, 07:56 PM:

I'd suspect that IR is going to be somewhat less on digital owing to the reflectors used also allow IR to pass through rather than being reflected forward. I noted on Kinoton lamphouses in the film days that IR filters held up MUCH better than conventional lamphouse filters.