Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Barco Escape

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Posted by Eric Richard (Member # 8635) on 08-08-2015, 06:05 PM:

Wondering if anyone has any thoughts on Barco Escape?

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 08-08-2015, 07:49 PM:

Some locations opening "Maze Runner 2" will be under contract with FOX to present this feature in Barco Escape.

Our location is one of them scheduled for this install for the Mid September release.

Wow, going back to meet with or our old friends of, "Able, Baker, and Charlie" again.

We all heard of "lieMax", now wonder if a new pun name will be given for this "Cinerama" wannabe presentation format.

"Smilebox with square corners?"

Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 08-09-2015, 12:25 AM:

http://www.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/f5/t002830/p1.html

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 08-09-2015, 08:10 AM:

I'm not sold on this format at all. It it isn't really a Cinerama wannabe either. Cinerama wanted to create a "YOU ARE THERE" feel out of a VERY large screen. The mosaic nature of Cinerama was necessary consequence of the day and an outgrowth of the Vitarama technology of the WWII trainers. It wasn't the desired goal of Cinerama to stitch three images together...just a necessity of the time.

Oddly enough, with today's technology of blending digital images/warping...etc...Barco COULD have done Cinerama on a deep curve screen and eliminated its artifacts with either a single projector or with a mosaic. But no, they went for this wacky three screen process that just looks awful to me. It makes the mistake, in my opinion, of allowing the technology to be "in-your-face" rather than enhance the experience, as Cinerama, Todd-AO, CinemaScope...etc. have tried to do.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 08-09-2015, 08:53 AM:

It's the cheapest way to sell three projectors instead of one. After the digital rollout is nearly over, they are looking for all sorts of things to keep sales up, be they useful or not.

- Carsten

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-09-2015, 10:22 AM:

Agreed Carsten!

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 08-12-2015, 01:03 AM:

This is going to be an interesting question, but were are the projectors installed at if the image for the side screens are kept square as possible?

Plus, as mentioned where we are getting Escape, this house had a Silver screen installed, thus the other two panels will have to have silver screens installed to keep the uniformity of the image intact.

I have to add to the comment on the sale side, that it also gives the technicians/installers something to do since digital really took their regular routine work away since no oil, gears, belts and such to deal with when they had to tend film units.

-Monte

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 08-12-2015, 03:22 AM:

Check the previous topic, everything you need to know is in there.

The projectors are installed in big black boxes hanging from the ceiling.

Barco Escape is so bad, it makes Digital IMAX look good. It's a sugar coated turd only invented to sell new projectors while grabbing an extra buck from the audience for the "privilege".

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 08-12-2015, 07:32 AM:

quote: Monte L Fullmer
I have to add to the comment on the sale side, that it also gives the technicians/installers something to do since digital really took their regular routine work away since no oil, gears, belts and such to deal with when they had to tend film units.

Wow. Clearly you don't know any digital technicians who have a full day-to-day workload. Oil, gears, and belts were merely replaced by fans, cooling pumps, and optics, all of which need to be maintained and need to be replaced when they fail.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 08-12-2015, 08:26 AM:

The pictures of this system look pretty miserable, especially considering that the concept was done better in the 1920s and again in the 1950s.

Lie-max is actually a good product, albeit an overpriced and poorly marketed one. The Barco thing just looks dumb. Presumably, the left and right screens wash out the image on the center one, too. The closest thing that it reminds me of is a short (~5 minutes) film that the Basketball Hall of Fame used to have, where the audience stood in the center of a room with four screens and watched part of a basketball game that was filmed with four cameras. The intention was to give the effect of standing in the center of a basketball court during a game. The effect was sort of interesting for a five-minute film, but I would not want to see a feature-length show that way.

I am all for improving picture and sound quality, but movies have done just fine for the last hundred years without silly gimmicks like this one.

(Disclaimer: I have not seen this in person...and don't really want to, either.)

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-12-2015, 01:35 PM:

Since our screen is 2:1, I tend to zoom scope movies out a bit to fill it -- I think it looks better. I can't IMAGINE how crappy it would look to have two whole other screens out to the side of the main screen. Is it true that the image on the side screens isn't there for the whole movie?

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 08-12-2015, 03:44 PM:

I never considered the reduced contrast caused by the side screens... It is so frustrating that cinema - as everything else - is going down into this abyss of gimmicks, where a 'premium seat' is more important than a properly tuned system.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 08-12-2015, 06:20 PM:

I've experienced the system first hand last year and I did something like a review in the topic mentioned above.

The amount of light reflecting back from those side panels is absurd. It's not only a contrast catastrophe for the main image, it's utterly distracting in itself.

quote: Mike Blakesley
Is it true that the image on the side screens isn't there for the whole movie?

Last year's Maze Runner had only a few minutes worth of material for those screens. I'm not sure about the upcoming sequel, but I have zero intentions on checking up on that.

What's worse is that those scenes on the side panels don't even match up with the content on screen. The way this was implemented, they didn't expand the image, they primarily distracted you from the main movie.

It reminds me of watching those iPhone videos on TV, where they put a blurry version of the image on the sides, because black bars are considered evil...

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 08-12-2015, 08:25 PM:

If you are talking about silver side screens at an angle that is going to be real bad. It will reflect the light on to each other and wash the images out and no light to the audience. I am referring to having to use silver side screens to match an existing center silver screen.

Posted by Eric Richard (Member # 8635) on 08-15-2015, 03:11 PM:

The side screens are what concern me, as we are going to retrofit a house. I'm wondering if the ground up auditoriums will be better able to showcase the format. I have two conversion installs over the next month so ready to see what they come up with. Anyone else have installs planned soon?

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-15-2015, 11:30 PM:

I have yet to see one item on the internet or anywhere saying this is cool, it's a good idea, it's worth the investment or anything. All I've seen is stuff about how terrible it is. And no other movies have used it that I know of except the original Maze Runner which wasn't even a smash hit. All of which leads to the question, WHY is this "system" still being installed anywhere??

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-17-2015, 04:42 AM:

To carry on with this: We're just about done with our install and one simple conclusion is apparent:

If one is going to put in this process, please, if building a location, or adding a house, design it from the ground up for Barco Escape instead of retrofitting a house that makes the install look so "add-on" where modifications are definitely noticeable.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-18-2015, 01:39 AM:

To add: Installation was completed. Images on all three screens looks great and sharp due to the smaller size of the projected image.

Quite impressive for the public to witness where they've never seen this process before.

-Monte

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-18-2015, 10:33 AM:

How about some pictures?

Does the installation stay after Maze Runner is done? I've never heard of any other movies released in the format.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 09-18-2015, 12:12 PM:

What do they do about surround speaker placement in these auditoriums?

- Carsten

Posted by John Roddy (Member # 7348) on 09-18-2015, 02:14 PM:

Our install was just finished too. Pretty interesting stuff.

quote: Carsten Kurz
What do they do about surround speaker placement in these auditoriums?

- Carsten

Nothing. The screens are perforated, so any speakers already on the wall are totally OK. The side screens cover up two speakers each, but it didn't really make an audible difference. We re-EQ'd the auditorium afterward anyway. It was due. Current sound quality is pretty freaking good, with or without escape.

quote: Mike Blakesley
Does the installation stay after Maze Runner is done? I've never heard of any other movies released in the format.

The side screens are motorized on angled tracks. When escape is disabled, they rest parallel to the side walls, about one or two feet off the wall. They also have curtains attached to an oversized tie rack at the top, also motorized. They wrap around and cover the side completely to prevent glare from the center screen.

They also didn't need to modify the main screen at all. In escape mode, you lose about 1/3 of the horizontal space, but 100% of the area is maintained otherwise. We were running both FLAT and SCOPE movies after the install, and it looked exactly the same as it always did.

Oh, and for all of you curtain-junkies, the answer is yes: escape is fully compatible with center-screen masking. Our particular setup didn't line up correctly, so we're being forced to leave it open for now. But that can totally be fixed.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-19-2015, 03:49 AM:

BARCO Escape install

Side screens are at 30 degrees angle from the side walls.

This house contains a silver screen, thus the panels are a grey screen material to closely match the main silver screen.

Side screens are on a motorized track setup so that the front of each screen, swings back to parallel to the side walls when the Escape system is not in use.

Using the "Cinerama" terms: "Able" (left) and "Charlie" (right) projectors (Barco 20C units) suspended from the ceiling facing its respective screen, while "Baker" (center) projector (23B unit) is the existing unit for this house.

"Baker" projector received a longer lens to reduce the image to fit with the respective side screens to make one long image. Yet, the lens has enough zoom to enlarge the image on the screen to fill when Escape is not in use.

A different server setup is used for this three projector procedure.

Each projector has its own internal server and storage where each screen's content is ingested from a main storage unit that is attached to all three projectors. Total files comes on a 1Tb drive that is ingested into the main storage unit

Operating controls made by Barco controls the Escape program.

Very interesting

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 09-19-2015, 06:48 AM:

Eww. That looks super-ugly.

Isn't the noise of the two projectors in the auditorium bothersome to the audience?

I haven't seen this in action, but it really does scream "low-rent imitation of Cinerama invented by people who have never seen the real thing." And the sad part is that a proper D-cinema implementation of Cinerama could have been really interesting, since it is now possible to combine images from multiple projectors without visible seams.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 09-19-2015, 12:45 PM:

I thought the same upon seeing this picture, however, hardly any auditorium nowadays is actually built to be seen in daylight. Once it's dark and all the screens are lit, it will probably look decent enough to the expectations of the audience. Not that I would ever have something like this built into our auditorium. I'm sure this gimmick won't last. And yes, the noise from two regular Barco machines would annoy the hell out of me. But that's a matter of the sound scape being produced by the features running in Escape mode (no pun intended). For 'ordinary' features, the machines won't be running, so no additional noise.

There is always interesting technology behind stuff like this, but from a cinema experience point of view, this is just bad, bad, bad...

What's next? ATMOS+ESCAPE in 3D+MassageRecliner-MotionSeats+Smellorama+Philips Lightvibes, all cluttered into one auditorium? Sounds like Dante's inferno to me...

I never imagined the end of the digital rollout would be the start of this rubbish...

- Carsten

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-19-2015, 01:51 PM:

There's a long list of things I would love to do in our theater but that sure isn't on the list.

I read in Hollywood Reporter that the new Maze Runner has roughly 20 minutes of Escape footage, and that they have "grown" the installed base of audioriums to 20.

Seriously??! Owners are investing this kind of money for 20 minutes of "created" non-essential extra footage which, in order to be shown, depends on covering up half of the existing screen thus making the picture much smaller?

Does the picture height match the side screens? If so, I would run not walk to the nearest "regular" theater to see that movie.

With an installed base of only 20 screens it doesn't seem all the likely that studios will be lining up to produce all that many movies in the format.

The HR article says there will be "multiple" films in the Escape format over a 5-year period, which commenced with the first Maze Runner last year. One of the films will be a new Jerry Bruckheimer project, one will be a "reimagining" of a classic Bruckheimer film (Top Gun?) with new footage created to "enhance" the original film, and one will be a Lady Gaga concert.

The whole thing screams "short lived novelty" to me...

Posted by Bertrand Samson (Member # 5290) on 09-19-2015, 02:12 PM:

The Cinerama screen had a 146 degree curve and was 80 feet wide.If you want to see pictures of early cinerama installations in America go to Altec Lansing FACEBOOK the one with the Maestro Avatar.As For Barco unfortunately the max aspect ratio is 2.4 where as Cinerama is 2.65 .

Posted by John Roddy (Member # 7348) on 09-19-2015, 02:45 PM:

Barco has actually specified that their goal was never to mimic "cinerama" or any of those panoramic formats. They designed it this way specifically so that it would have three separate screens. Some of their demo content makes this pretty clear since it'll throw completely different angles of the same scene on each of the three screens.

Keeping that in mind, this makes less sense for movies, but has a lot of potential for other types of content. Sports/eSports, concerts, etc.. Movies could still work pretty well, but they need to be designed with escape in mind from the beginning. The escape content in Scorch Trials is pretty half-baked. Some of it does work a little better than I'd have expected, but the total-CGI side screen stuff for only a few chunks of the movie? Meh.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-19-2015, 05:02 PM:

Eventually, there will be, from BARCO, "Hush Boxes" that will totally enclose the two units along with a traveller system that will allow the entire setup to be lowered down for projector maintenance.

Yes, image on center screen is the same size as with the side screens. If you look at the total image from about dead center and towards the back, you definitely have a "bowtie" looking image...almost a "Smilebox", but with straight edges instead of the traditional curve edge.

Right now, there is a "hush device" attached to the front of the projector that quiets down the sound from the two front fans that cool down the boards, but one still has all of the internal fans blowing away along with the illumination from the touch panel and the rear status light.

Yes, while during intermission, you do hear the units clearly, but with show going, it's not too bad where the more distraction is more of the lights.

Yet, the public likes this presentation concept, both upstairs and downstairs and that's is what counts.

We're the only location in the entire state with this install.

-Monte

Posted by Buck Wilson (Member # 5885) on 09-20-2015, 09:31 PM:

Dear lord. This garbage has rendered me speechless. How about we start with Scope done right?

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-20-2015, 10:44 PM:

I'm really curious what this setup costs.

2 projectors...they obviously don't need to be full-featured projectors, let's guess $20,000 apiece?

2 screens with frames - not silver but special gray matte, but smaller than a normal screen so maybe...$4000 total?

Traveler mechanisms, "hush boxes" and all the attendant electrical work for everything -- maybe $12,000?

All of which totals up to $60,000.

Has anyone gotten a quote for one of these systems? How close is my guess? It's all very curious to me especially considering the small amount of Escape footage in the movies, and the small number of movies that are coming in the format. I think if I was going to spend that kind of money I'd put in Atmos instead.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 09-20-2015, 11:54 PM:

Mike...Monte listed the projectors as DP2K-20C and I believe with servers in each...the DP2K-20C is more than double the figure you quoted, each. In fact, I think your estimate is probably less than 1/2 the cost.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-20-2015, 11:57 PM:

Well, that makes it even more amazing that any owner would actually invest in this format.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 09-21-2015, 12:32 AM:

Like Steve already indicated, those projectors have a way higher list-price, you also need two servers and someone also needs to install it for you, which also doesn't come cheap.

Reactions from the public have been lukewarm at best. Maybe Barco is giving away some of this as a promo if you commit to buy some other stuff from them, I don't know why anybody would want this stuff otherwise.

This auditorium looks like an even bigger hack job than the one I've seen last year... I wouldn't last 5 minutes looking at this crap.

The install I've seen in Antwerp did have the projectors in some kind of "hushboxes". It also had most of the unused main screen masked off, it looks like they didn't even bother here...

Why isn't this BS format dead already? If anybody wants to invent a super-wide format in 2014, why not a format that uses seamless projection mapping with ulta-wide, deep curved screens? A format that people would actually appreciate...

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-21-2015, 02:49 AM:

Let's see if FOX holds up to their contract with Barco on making product for this system.

If it takes off after Mazerunner (in which the Martian one-sheets are advertising "Wide Screen" format possibly meaning Escape), amybe other studios can get on the bandwagon in making content for this format. Right now, it's makes this house look like an event house, with features to be also shown.

Definitely a different animal to handle than GDC or Doremi, even though the TMS software for this system does resemble the user friendly Doremi.

Posted by Carsten Kurz (Member # 5396) on 09-21-2015, 05:42 PM:

deep curved screen?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i41qWJ6QjPI

https://vimeo.com/47878239

- Carsten

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 09-22-2015, 06:54 AM:

The setup at the UN in that video (above) looks amazing. Not so much for movies, but the animation on that big curved screen works well for the performance. There is a surprisingly large number of people doing interesting things with projection for live performances like this. I would be curious to know how they achieved even focus on the deeply curved screen (cyclorama?).

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 09-22-2015, 03:34 PM:

As per the story in Vimeo below:

quote:
Ten synchronized and mapped projections covered the screen with 200,000 lumens, creating one continuous giant image

Cinerama taking steroids.

-Monte

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 09-24-2015, 01:12 AM:

I'm wondering if anybody has seen this year's Maze Runner in hack-o-vision yet?

quote: Scott Norwood
The setup at the UN in that video (above) looks amazing. Not so much for movies, but the animation on that big curved screen works well for the performance. There is a surprisingly large number of people doing interesting things with projection for live performances like this. I would be curious to know how they achieved even focus on the deeply curved screen (cyclorama?).

The great thing about such large, wrap-around screens is that it creates a seamless experience. It's not like looking trough a bunch of badly aligned windows, it's much more like being there.

The focus here really is a non-issue, because the image is stitched together using a whole array of projectors, in this case about 9 projectors. Every projector just covers a small part of the screen so you only have to worry about the focus in this part. The difficult thing is making them overlap seamlessly. The biggest problem here isn't even the pixel mapping, there's software that gets the job done for you, but getting the brightness right, especially in the overlap regions and for dark scenes. In the days of CRT projectors, this wasn't really a problem, because black is pretty much black, but DLP projectors leak an awful lot of light and stack the image of multiple projectors over each other and you're going from dark grey to light grey. [Wink]

Some of the better edge-blending setups therefore use special blending filters in front of the projector lenses. Those assemblies aren't always practical, but get the job done pretty well.

Posted by Eric Richard (Member # 8635) on 02-04-2016, 09:38 PM:

Im wondering if any of my fellow Escape equipped locations have heard any news regarding content, etc.

Posted by Eric Richard (Member # 8635) on 02-06-2016, 03:51 PM:

...and the silence speaks volumes [Razz]

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 02-06-2016, 04:55 PM:

Heard that FOX is planning on five Escape releases this year as of current.

Posted by Marco Giustini (Member # 4544) on 02-06-2016, 06:08 PM:

quote: John Roddy
Nothing. The screens are perforated, so any speakers already on the wall are totally OK. The side screens cover up two speakers each, but it didn't really make an audible difference.

A screen WILL make a difference on HF. If your system is 5.1 or 7.1 your front surrounds will be lacking HF and you'll be probably compensate a little with the back ones as you cannot adjust single speakers.

Re. Escape, "garbage" "ugly" and "gimmick" are three of the words from this conversation that spring to mind.

Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 03-11-2019, 04:54 AM:

It has been 1128 days since the last post.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 03-11-2019, 04:54 AM:

I've awakened this topic from the dead, to celebrate the 1+ year death of this format.

To be honest, I just recently learned that Barco had discontinued their Escape efforts, after I happened to visit a theater that previously had been equipped with Escape, only to see that it was all-gone now...

I'm still wondering if there are still locations holding on to the configuration? Also, what was the deal with Barco? Did the theater buy or lease the equipment or was it a revenue share model and did Barco take the brunt of the impact after discontinuing it after merely 3 years in the market?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-11-2019, 07:46 AM:

Look up Screen-X They are still clinging to the concept of a side screens but extend it further into the audience.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 03-11-2019, 09:27 AM:

quote: Steve Guttag
Look up Screen-X They are still clinging to the concept of a side screens but extend it further into the audience.

Yes, I've seen some promotional material for it. Isn't it also some Korean invention, like 4DX?

It's still just a distracting gimmick in my opinion, but it's somewhat ironic that their solution is more advanced than the idiotic Barco Escape setup. At least, they're not covering the original screen with those ugly side screens and use some edge-blended projection mapping to fill the sides.

Also, at least their demonstrations, seem to properly extend the screen. The limited Barco Escape content there was, largely filled those side-panels with some vaguely related garbage.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-11-2019, 12:27 PM:

Why do people keep re-inventing Cinerama the wrong way?

It would be so easy to do this now with an array of edge-blended video projectors and a giant curved screen (with big red curtains). Combine that with 65mm origination and a high-res scan, and I think that the result would be a pretty impressive format, especially with a high-end sound system.

As with all such endeavors, though, there is a chicken-or-egg problem: why would anyone produce content for this sort of system with no place to show it, and why would anyone build a cinema and install special hardware for a format with no content to play. I have no idea how to solve that. Clearly, Barco had no idea, either.

Maybe we should just admit that 15/70 Imax is the best available format for which cinemas and content are already available.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-11-2019, 05:31 PM:

I am pretty sure they just installed Barco Escape in many of the State Prisons.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 03-11-2019, 09:12 PM:

And remastered some classics for it, e.g. The Great Escape, Papillon, Escape from Alcatraz, 20,000 Years in Sing Sing, I Am a Fugitive from a Chain Gang...

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 03-12-2019, 02:34 PM:

I would rather opt for a special release of Black Mirror: Bandersnatch, where three possible choices are shown in parallel...

Posted by Bruce Cloutier (Member # 9615) on 03-13-2019, 11:57 AM:

I believe the Escape used two JNIORs. I'm not sure how. Oh well...

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 03-13-2019, 03:11 PM:

They were able to fold those back-panels back into the side of the walls, so they wouldn't block parts of the main screen during non-Escape shows.

Since most theaters would be showing non-Escape content most of the time, I guess they motorized this setup.

Posted by Tom Bert (Member # 5719) on 03-13-2019, 04:53 PM:

quote: Marcel Birgelen
I guess they motorized this setup.

That is correct: side screens -slightly- moved inwards over a rail

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 03-14-2019, 02:18 PM:

Thanks for that insight. Although I'm somewhat happy this Frankenstein-format didn't make it, it's also somewhat sad.

Next time you guys look for a way to sell more projectors, please at least make it awesome. [Smile]

Even though alternative formats usually don't make it, next time, make it more expensive, but better! Please include big curved screens and a big array of seamlessly edge-blended projectors please. [thumbsup]

Posted by Stephan Shelley (Member # 8587) on 03-14-2019, 04:45 PM:

When escape premiered at Cinemacon I asked them about a curved screen and they said it did not meet DCI specs if they did. Hence the flat wings.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 03-14-2019, 05:59 PM:

Which is a bit of a b.s. argument really, or rather, a simple excuse not to go all-in on it. The Seattle Cinerama is playing all kinds of DCI content. Yes, a whole lot of the screen will only be used by real Cinerama features, but the deeply curved screen doesn't prohibit them to show normal formats.

Special releases for such deeply curved screens using multiple projectors might not be DCI compliant, but in order to get everything out of the format, you would need the cooperation of the studios anyway. They care more about their content being protected than just DCI compliancy.

IMAX is also showing their own DCPs and is doing some image processing on them. If they can do it, others with sufficient influence and willingness to do so can too.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-15-2019, 06:29 AM:

I've found most DCI compliance quotes to be BS. One, there is no DCI police out there. As others have stated, DCI's biggest thing is security of the content. Non-masked screens are not DCI compliant.

I've seen nothing prohibiting curved screens, deeply or otherwise. There was a blurb about non-square pixels but that was on origination, not projection and with anamorphic lenses, the only requirement was to have the scaling to not be visible from the audience area so anyone that wants to quote DCI compliance on that, you call call BS on it too.

If Barco wanted to do deep curve and make it a proprietary format, contract with a lens manufacturer to custom grind lenses for the deep curve and do it with a single projector and then come up with a set of theatre plans that work with those lenses to achieve a minimal distortion deep curved screen without scaling.

That said, I hear now of plans for projector companies to start implementing "warping" type technologies that they have in their pro AV projectors. This is where I think higher projector resolutions could come in handy to allow for such scaling without visible artifacts in the 4K presentation range.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 03-15-2019, 11:54 AM:

quote: Steve Guttag
I've found most DCI compliance quotes to be BS. One, there is no DCI police out there.

Image scaling is another practice to which this applies. Official DCI guidelines say that you shouldn't do it, but Barco and NEC projectors at least (can't speak for Sony and Christie, as I've never had to do this on either) allow you to scale the image, and that feature is a very useful "get out of trouble" option, e.g. if a projector has been delivered with the wrong lens and you don't want the screen down until the new one arrives.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-15-2019, 01:03 PM:

DCI did NOT say you couldn't scale! It said there aren't to be visible artifacts of scaling!

The scaling happens in the ICP module of non-Sony projectors so yes, Christie does it as well. The anamorphic factor is on the ICP module, hence they can all do anamorphics. The ICMP, at the moment, doesn't have the anamorphic factor implemented.

The reason they went with 1.25 anamorphics instead of 1.26 (closer approximation of 2.39) is to minimize the artifacts.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 03-15-2019, 03:10 PM:

quote: Steve Guttag
DCI did NOT say you couldn't scale! It said there aren't to be visible artifacts of scaling!

That's so subjective that it's effectively the same thing as no scaling.

If you are close enough to the screen, you'll see the artifacts. A little further away from the screen, someone who has 20/20 vision will see visible artifacts that someone with average eyesight will not. Same thing with the Samsung LED panels and the rule that the individual pixels must not be visible closer than a certain distance (can't remember what it is). Some people will see them at that distance, but others won't.

Posted by Allan Young (Member # 6332) on 03-16-2019, 02:54 AM:

quote: Marcel Birgelen
The Seattle Cinerama is playing all kinds of DCI content. Yes, a whole lot of the screen will only be used by real Cinerama features, but the deeply curved screen doesn't prohibit them to show normal formats.

Seattle has two screens. The deeply curved one is only used for Cinerama showings.

Posted by Marcel Birgelen (Member # 6801) on 03-16-2019, 06:12 AM:

They seemingly have one room and two screens... Which I didn't know. Kind of an intriguing, but somewhat impractical setup.

Yet, there are other DCI setups using deeply curved screens. [Wink]

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-16-2019, 10:58 AM:

quote: Leo Enticknap
That's so subjective that it's effectively the same thing as no scaling.

Sorry no..that's reaching. It never intended to eliminate scaling or anamorphics (which require scaling)...I was more involved with such things then on the standards front than I am now (I'm lacking time).

I've used anamorphics in some high-profile situations with studio screenings. Never had one pick off visible artifacts.